Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
asero
does any one of you have their personal list of 100 greatest boxers in history. please post it here as a comparison or check on my list..
..i'll post my rankings..
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore
11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans
21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins
31. Jack Dempsey
32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith
41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles
51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern
61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jack Britton
66. Ted Kid Lewis
67. Carmen Basilio
68. Wilfred Benitez
69. Oscar De La Hoya
70. Felix Trinidad
71. Joe Brown
72. Aaron Pryor
73. Ricardo Lopez
74. Abe Attel
75. Shane Mosley
76. Carlos Zarate
77. Harry Wills
78. Azumah Nelson
79. Pancho Villa
80. Erik Morales
81. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
82. Marco Antonio Barrera
83. Mike Tyson
84. Pascual Perez
85. Miguel Canto
86. Joe Calzaghe
87. Marcel Cerdan
88. Flash Elorde
89. Jim Jeffries
90. Holman Williams
91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery
no offense but your list lost legitimacy by having Pacquiao so high at 32 and he is even past oscar and why is calzaghe so low, he should be higher then pacman?
I honestly didn't even need to read Moono's post. I saw who posted, then read the quoted thread, then immediately knew he was going to say Pacquiao was too high on the list.
To Moono, if you like Pacquiao or have any ounce of respect for him, you apparently "lose you legitimacy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingfrnk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Nice list Daxx. Some minor quibbles, but nothing serious. Nice to see Arguello up there high on the list.
But seeing as how people are talking about Hopkins, I would tend to rate Hagler above Hopkins because Hagler's entire reign was as undisputed champion, was it not?
Bhop held the WBC,WBA,IBF,WBO and the Ring all at once i believe. the only thing he did different from Hagler was become LH champ. I would personally rate Bhop above Hagler though.
I'm with you my man. I think Hopkins should be rated higher than Hagler IMO as well. They were both the most dominant middleweight champions in history but the lightheavyweight title puts B-Hop over the edge.
I don't remember who posted it earlier but I agree with Hopkins being rated above Roy Jones Jr. Even though Jones has a victory over Hopkins, I think Hopkins' career and resume surpasses Jones'.
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
These all-time great lists are impossible.
When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.
The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.
Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed
Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses. :rolleyes:
My favourite way of looking at it is to think who would win a fight between 2 fighters in their prime and discount longjecity, achivements etc. But as you say it rarely ever happens that 2 fighters meet in their primes. Morales and Barrera did and if ever there was an argument that 2 fighters were equal that is the one. I'm sure Joe Louis is considered 'Greater' than Riddick Bowe, but Bowe would've smoked his boots ;)
Just like Riddick Bowe smoked Tony Tubbs boots :-\
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
These all-time great lists are impossible.
When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.
The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.
Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed
Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses. :rolleyes:
completely agree, even things like glove sizes would have to be brought into play
Its not hard to see that fighters like leonard, robinson, ali, frazier would of been great great fighters in any given era.
But then you reach the questionable guys like jack johnson, marciano, charles etc and wonder if their records really were buffed out through fighting just ordinary guys instead of true greats.
PS:I know ive already asked this question but..........
PERNELL WHITAKER, above the likes of hagler, lewis, hopkins
thats about as bizzare as eugene williams scoring the 1st holyfield, lewis fight 115-113 for evander!!!!!!!
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
These all-time great lists are impossible.
When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.
The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.
Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed
Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses. :rolleyes:
completely agree, even things like glove sizes would have to be brought into play
Its not hard to see that fighters like leonard, robinson, ali, frazier would of been great great fighters in any given era.
But then you reach the questionable guys like jack johnson, marciano, charles etc and wonder if their records really were buffed out through fighting just ordinary guys instead of true greats.
PS:I know ive already asked this question but..........
PERNELL WHITAKER, above the likes of hagler, lewis, hopkins
thats about as bizzare as eugene williams scoring the 1st holyfield, lewis fight 115-113 for evander!!!!!!!
Are you kidding me ? you don't know much about boxing if you don't think Pernell Whitaker is rated above those 3 fighters. He only lost 1 fight convincingly and that was when he was way past his best, against Felix Triniad and being on drugs too at the time aswell as inactivity.
Azumah Nelson
Julio Cesar Chavez = He beat him.
Diosbelys Hurtado
Jose Luis Ramirez = He beat him twice.
Roger Mayweather
Alfredo Layne = Win over Wilfredo Gomez, thats why i mention him.
Greg Haugen
Freddie Pendleton
Policarpo Diaz
Jorge Paez
Harold Brazier
Rafael Pineda
James McGirt x2
Julio Cesar Vasquez
Gary Jacobs
Wilfredo Rivera x2
Including 4 world titles a 4 different weightclasses. Also including 9 title defenses at Lightweight, and im including his loss over Jose Luis Ramirez, because he won that. That was a BS decision.
And 8 title defenses at Welterweight and im including his victory over Julio Cesar Chavez because he won that too. Or how about being P4P number 1 for a few years ? now do you believe he shouldn't be rated above those 3 fighters ?
Unless i read your comment wrong ? because im in shock you'd say that personally.
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phil
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Just opinion Mate but the fact Roy declined to fight Calzaghe was HIS words not mine....It was before the Hopkins/Calzaghe fight and Roy said he wanted winner...When asked why he mnever went to fight Calzaghe all the years he was LHW champ and Calzaghe was calling his name he stated...
"Truth,,,There was too much for me to lose at the time...I was not going to go in his country and risk my P4P title and fight in another country now its different he has what I want I don't have what he wants"
I swear on a book of bibles
As far as the other points (My point with Hopkins not being his best)....Bernard was new to the game period...Jones had a long amateur career, Olympic experience...Hopkins had only been at it a few years...The man had virtually no amateur experience...He learned the sport while in prison...Not exactly the best gym is it?
DLH, chased Hopkins,,,,Small MW yes but in truth he is actually bigger then Hagler..5'9 1/2" 75" reach...DLH is 5' 10 1/2"...Tito is 5'11" and walked around over the 160 mark and had been campaigning at MW was even a champion with 2 title defenses
i think what roy said was "I was pound for pound champ and undisputed champ, why should I have to go fight him when I was the best", which makes sense. In every sport the champ, better, or favorite gets home field advantage. The calculated move by calzaghe to all of sudden come to the states to fight both roy and Bhop after they seemingly lost their grips on their respective divisions seems too convienent and also proves that he was willing to come to the states all along, whereas neither of them have left the country since becoming champs. calzaghe sat over there and waited for them to "look" beatable then came over...
tbh Calzaghe was just as stubborn as Jones for not wanting to leave his backyard, both of there carears could be so much better if they would have travelled, Jones could have gone to Germany to fight DM(a true champ would have wanted this scalp and gone for it), he could have come to Ireland to fight Collins, Brittian to fight Eubank ect... and imo he would have won them all, if he'd done this he would have picked up alot more fans and gotten alot more credit. The fact remains that RJJ, BHOP and Calzaghe could all have travelled and challenged themselves alot more, but they were all quite happy taking easier options in there own countrys...
Well thats true, but jones and hopkins lost meaningful fights that they should have won when they left the country...
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
These all-time great lists are impossible.
When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.
The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.
Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed
Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses. :rolleyes:
completely agree, even things like glove sizes would have to be brought into play
Its not hard to see that fighters like leonard, robinson, ali, frazier would of been great great fighters in any given era.
But then you reach the questionable guys like jack johnson, marciano, charles etc and wonder if their records really were buffed out through fighting just ordinary guys instead of true greats.
PS:I know ive already asked this question but..........
PERNELL WHITAKER, above the likes of hagler, lewis, hopkins
thats about as bizzare as eugene williams scoring the 1st holyfield, lewis fight 115-113 for evander!!!!!!!
Are you kidding me ? you don't know much about boxing if you don't think Pernell Whitaker is rated above those 3 fighters. He only lost 1 fight convincingly and that was when he was way past his best, against Felix Triniad and being on drugs too at the time aswell as inactivity.
Azumah Nelson
Julio Cesar Chavez = He beat him.
Diosbelys Hurtado
Jose Luis Ramirez = He beat him twice.
Roger Mayweather
Alfredo Layne = Win over Wilfredo Gomez, thats why i mention him.
Greg Haugen
Freddie Pendleton
Policarpo Diaz
Jorge Paez
Harold Brazier
Rafael Pineda
James McGirt x2
Julio Cesar Vasquez
Gary Jacobs
Wilfredo Rivera x2
Including 4 world titles a 4 different weightclasses. Also including 9 title defenses at Lightweight, and im including his loss over Jose Luis Ramirez, because he won that. That was a BS decision.
And 8 title defenses at Welterweight and im including his victory over Julio Cesar Chavez because he won that too. Or how about being P4P number 1 for a few years ? now do you believe he shouldn't be rated above those 3 fighters ?
Unless i read your comment wrong ? because im in shock you'd say that personally.
I can't believe you answered that....someone's questioning Sweet pea as p4p ATG...he's easily higher than bhop,lewis, and hagler...hagler only fought at MW. so P4P for him to me has always been silly....
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
I cant believe how low you put Ray Leonard there is no way the fighters above him are better i mean i never seen him that low on list please tell me why you have him so low on the list Daxx because i have always consider him to be atg in the top 10 but i see you rate him much lower then i do and i like to know why you rate him so low just to ask dude.
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
In most instances, the difference between these fighters was razor thin, but in order to validate my selections (as much as validation is even possible), I used the following guidelines in my first book in order to list the top 100 since 1950:
1. Still active
2) Was there a reasonable distribution regarding weight classifications?
Too many heavyweights means something is very wrong.2) Was there
a reasonable distribution regarding era?
3) Did I know enough about each boxer to make a qualitative judgment?
Have I ever seen Percy Bassett fight?
4) Did I benchmark? For example, if Joe Frazier is too far away from Rocky
Marciano, something is probably amiss.
5) Did I avoid personal bias in making the selections? Was Bobby Chacon a
valid choice?
6) Did Hall of Fame induction bias my selections?
:confused::confused:
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phil
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
i think what roy said was "I was pound for pound champ and undisputed champ, why should I have to go fight him when I was the best", which makes sense. In every sport the champ, better, or favorite gets home field advantage. The calculated move by calzaghe to all of sudden come to the states to fight both roy and Bhop after they seemingly lost their grips on their respective divisions seems too convienent and also proves that he was willing to come to the states all along, whereas neither of them have left the country since becoming champs. calzaghe sat over there and waited for them to "look" beatable then came over...
tbh Calzaghe was just as stubborn as Jones for not wanting to leave his backyard, both of there carears could be so much better if they would have travelled, Jones could have gone to Germany to fight DM(a true champ would have wanted this scalp and gone for it), he could have come to Ireland to fight Collins, Brittian to fight Eubank ect... and imo he would have won them all, if he'd done this he would have picked up alot more fans and gotten alot more credit. The fact remains that RJJ, BHOP and Calzaghe could all have travelled and challenged themselves alot more, but they were all quite happy taking easier options in there own countrys...
Well thats true, but jones and hopkins lost meaningful fights that they should have won when they left the country...
yeah its a pity that happened, I would have loved to watch Jones and Hopkins fight live, I had my hopes up when I heard Jones-Calzaghe might have been in Cardiff, couldn't get the funds up for the trip to the states though, at least Ill get to see Ricardo Cordoba make shite of Dunne ;D
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
I like Sugar Ray Robinson as the number 1 but I think more of todays fighters should be ranked in the top 10 such as Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones Jr and Lennox Lewis and the way he keeps winning Manny Pacquiao. If Floyd Jr can come out of retirement and beat Manny and Mosley then he should be the number 1 guy.
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
^^^are you serious..PBF is no where near top 20
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
I cant believe how low you put Ray Leonard there is no way the fighters above him are better i mean i never seen him that low on list please tell me why you have him so low on the list Daxx because i have always consider him to be atg in the top 10 but i see you rate him much lower then i do and i like to know why you rate him so low just to ask dude.
I like Ray and believe he is talented but some of his wins are the hugest gifts in boxing one way or another....
EG- Ray beat a weight drained unhealthy Duran (Yes Durans fault I know)..and a waaay past his best Duran, The Hagler fight goes the same....He retired with 40 fights, his time was short and his career wins are not all what they seem...
His best wins are over Benitez and Hearns 1...He has a lot of ham and eggers on his resume.....
For a 20 yr career and only 40 fights it does not do it for me.....Just my opp
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Well going to have to disagree because for one thing Benitez what ever shape he was in was Leonard first title fight and Duran the first fight i thought was close and i dont think Duran would of won if Leonard did not fight his fight so it goes both ways the way i see it the Hearns win well nothing really to debate about you bring up Hagler being old but the funney thing is that he was active Leonard was not and it was his first time at the weight had not fought top oppent in god knows how long reason he did not have many fights is because of layoffs i dont think we ever got to see a prime Leonard because of the Hearns fight i would say not to mention he held belts in WW,LMW,MW,SMW,LHW that in it self is a good achivement not many have done it and wont be to many more to Wilfred Benitez,Roberto Duran,Marvin Hagler,Donny Lalonde,Ayub Kalule, Thomas Hearns those are the best wins he has had and i just linked them because there are a few people wont know but they had good records Bernard to me fought alot of crap to in his regian daxx i just think that Leonard was the better all around fighter and better in the speed and power and foot work department and had the better wins and moved up in weight and captured more titles so it has to Leonard for me but its just a opion just wanted to see why you rated him so high and no Ray Leonard and you gave me your reason so i rep you for that always nice to hear what you had to say.
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Well going to have to disagree because for one thing Benitez what ever shape he was in was Leonard first title fight and Duran the first fight i thought was close and i dont think Duran would of won if Leonard did not fight his fight so it goes both ways the way i see it the Hearns win well nothing really to debate about you bring up Hagler being old but the funney thing is that he was active Leonard was not and it was his first time at the weight had not fought top oppent in god knows how long reason he did not have many fights is because of layoffs i dont think we ever got to see a prime Leonard because of the Hearns fight i would say not to mention he held belts in WW,LMW,MW,SMW,LHW that in it self is a good achivement not many have done it and wont be to many more to
Wilfred Benitez,
Roberto Duran,
Marvin Hagler,
Donny Lalonde,
Ayub Kalule,
Thomas Hearns those are the best wins he has had and i just linked them because there are a few people wont know but they had good records Bernard to me fought alot of crap to in his regian daxx i just think that Leonard was the better all around fighter and better in the speed and power and foot work department and had the better wins and moved up in weight and captured more titles so it has to Leonard for me but its just a opion just wanted to see why you rated him so high and no Ray Leonard and you gave me your reason so i rep you for that always nice to hear what you had to say.
Actually Hagler being old was not what I meant..Though looking back at it sounded that way...I meant by saying ...Hagler fight the same....As in Ray was given a gift...My fault for wording it wrong.....Marvin was still on top of ther world when he faced Ray
And like I said in some other post though Hopkins has had such a long time at the top and has fought sooo many top level fighters./..he is 44 and still a P4P great...He has never been dominated...He has beaten other P4P fighters.....Before hios move to LGW if I had made this list Leonard would have been above him but fact is Bernard has managed to be a kingpin of 2 divisions,,,Moved up 2 divisions in his 40's...won the Ring title...and competed with the likes of Joe Calzaghe and dismantled the man who was feared in Pavlik....
Opps are opps there are no reAl right or wrong answers in these list...(Unless you have Charlie Zelenoff and Kid Thunder as #1 and #2:hypnotized:)...Everyone rates fighters different ways....though most list are the same by people who know the sport it is just position of where the guys are on that changes..
Rep returned
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
i made some revisions...see my first post
Re: Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...
revised list...
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore
11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Joe Gans
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Barney Ross
18. Jack Johnson
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jimmy Wilde
21. Mickey Walker
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Julio Cesar Chavez
24. Alexis Arguello
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Gene Tunney
27. Roy Jones Jr
28. Lennox Lewis
29. Evander Holyfield
30. Bernard Hopkins
31. Jack Dempsey
32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Emile Griffith
36. Barbados Joe Walcott
37. Kid Gavilan
38. Salvador Sanchez
39. Ike Williams
40. Charley Burley
41. Larry Holmes
42. Floyd Mayweather Jr
43. Thomas Hearns
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Stanley Ketchel
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Ruben Olivares
49. Jose Napoles
50. Fighting Harada
51. Dick Tiger
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Tiger Flowers
54. Manuel Ortiz
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Wilfredo Gomez
57. Bob Foster
58. Billy Conn
59. George Foreman
60. Joe Frazier
61. Jake LaMotta
62. Abe Attel
63. Carmen Basilio
64. Carlos Ortiz
65. Aaron Pryor.
66. Terry McGovern
67. Tommy Ryan
68. Jim Jeffries
69. Ricardo Lopez
70. Jack Britton
71. Ted Kid Lewis
72. Carlos Zarate
73. Wilfred Benitez
74. Oscar De La Hoya
75. Felix Trinidad
76. Joe Brown
77. Shane Mosley
78. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
79. Pancho Villa
80. Azumah Nelson
81. Erik Morales
82. Pascual Perez
83. Marco Antonio Barrera
84. Joe Calzaghe
85. Mike Tyson
86. Harry Wills
87. Juan Manuel Marquez
88. Miguel Canto
89. Marcel Cerdan
90. Flash Elorde
91. Holman Williams
92. John Dundee
93. Mike McCallum
94. Antonio Cervantes
95. Nicolino Locche
96. George Dixon
97. Sonny Liston
98. Packey McFarland
99. Khaosai Galaxy
100. Benny Lynch
101. Freddie Welsh
102. Jimmy Bivins
103. Harold Johnson
104. Bob Montgomery
105. Vicente Saldivar
106. Beau Jack
107. Maxie Rosenbloom
108. Gene Fullmer
109. Eusebio Pedroza
110. Lloyd Marshall
111. Lou Ambers
112. Battling Nelson
113. James Toney
114. Jim Driscoll
115. Jeff Fenech
116. Johnny Kilbane
117. Pete Herman
118. Kosta Tszyu
119. Freddie Miller
120. Nino Benvenuti
121. Georges Carpentier
122. Ken Buchanan
123. Duilio Loi
124. Winky Wright
125. Tommy Gibbons
126. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien
127. Jack Kid Berg
128. Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
129. Jack Blackburn
130. Johnny Tapia
