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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
I'm thinking Norwood holds claim to the only convincing win over Marquez,and that was a all around nasty,messy & close fight for both.Oh and his early DQ loss of course,but I'm sure he was only retaliating :cwm13:
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
One of those paid judges scored the fight 115-112 for Marquez. It was a close fight that could've gone either way and anyone saying otherwise is either biased or an idiot.
Who is saying otherwise?
yes it was a close fight that couldve gone either way. what im saying is the judges were paid to score the fight. theirs are the official score cards every body must live with it.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
One of those paid judges scored the fight 115-112 for Marquez. It was a close fight that could've gone either way and anyone saying otherwise is either biased or an idiot.
Who is saying otherwise?
yes it was a close fight that couldve gone either way. what im saying is the judges were paid to score the fight. theirs are the official score cards every body must live with it.
If there's a blatant scoring error committed by the judges, Team JMM can file a formal complaint about that in a boxing commission... I wonder why Team JMM didn't do that?? :confused:
.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Marquez landed the only good body shot with like 23 seconds left in the round. The first round was a clear Marquez round.
;)
Pacquiao landed more shots. JMM landed 1 good shot.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
One of those paid judges scored the fight 115-112 for Marquez. It was a close fight that could've gone either way and anyone saying otherwise is either biased or an idiot.
Who is saying otherwise?
yes it was a close fight that couldve gone either way. what im saying is the judges were paid to score the fight. theirs are the official score cards every body must live with it.
In threads like these there are always plenty of people saying otherwise.
Just because the judges score a fight a certain way doesn't mean that the result is justified or fair, though in this case I believe it is. Boxing is one of those rare sports where the outcome can depend upon perception and as such it's always interesting to discuss how we as boxing fans perceived the fight. The official scores are on the record, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss who we thought won.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
In threads like these there are always plenty of people saying otherwise.
Just because the judges score a fight a certain way doesn't mean that the result is justified or fair, though in this case I believe it is.
I Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Boxing is one of those rare sports where the outcome can depend upon perception and as such it's always interesting to discuss how we as boxing fans perceived the fight. The official scores are on the record, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss who we thought won.
I still agree. but i think the thread title is ridiculous.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Heres my scorecard Taeth from ages ago.
1 Marquez
2 Marquez
3 Pacquiao 10-8
4 Pacquiao
5 Marquez
6 Marquez
7 Pacquiao
8 Marquez
9 Pacquiao
10 Pacquiao
11 Marquez
12 Marquez
114-113 JMM
I think the 8th round was borderline 10-8 round for JMM aswell.
And lastly that post i made with all the score's was just to prove your point wrong, about the Mexican/Spanish comment.
Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.
Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.
-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.
:confused:
One of those paid judges scored the fight 115-112 for Marquez. It was a close fight that could've gone either way and anyone saying otherwise is either biased or an idiot.
well, you said it. i know a lot here got hit on the noggins. lol
the thing is it is a close fight and anyone who say for certain that one fighter won over the other is what you say they are. record books though would have the fight a draw and a win for pacquiao which will what history would look at since there really isn't any outcry for robbery.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
I'm sounding like a broken record but oh well:
The first fight PAC definitely should've won if not for judge Clemens:mad:
The second fight could've gone either way but PAC definitely landed the harder quality shots that shook the other guy more.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Heres my scorecard Taeth from ages ago.
1 Marquez
2 Marquez
3 Pacquiao 10-8
4 Pacquiao
5 Marquez
6 Marquez
7 Pacquiao
8 Marquez
9 Pacquiao
10 Pacquiao
11 Marquez
12 Marquez
114-113 JMM
I think the 8th round was borderline 10-8 round for JMM aswell.
And lastly that post i made with all the score's was just to prove your point wrong, about the Mexican/Spanish comment.
Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.
Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.
-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.
Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.
Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.
Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Heres my scorecard Taeth from ages ago.
1 Marquez
2 Marquez
3 Pacquiao 10-8
4 Pacquiao
5 Marquez
6 Marquez
7 Pacquiao
8 Marquez
9 Pacquiao
10 Pacquiao
11 Marquez
12 Marquez
114-113 JMM
I think the 8th round was borderline 10-8 round for JMM aswell.
And lastly that post i made with all the score's was just to prove your point wrong, about the Mexican/Spanish comment.
Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.
Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.
-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.
Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.
Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.
Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.
You scored round 1 for Marquez? Dude you're blind. And stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was really a 10-7 round for Pac. Juan held and sat on the ropes just like his brother Rafa (Izzy-Rafa 3 rd.12) after he took some blistering combos from Pac.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Unless you are a Pac fan a gift is covered up by supporting the judges and emphasizing the obvious that the outcome will remain in the record books
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.
Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.
-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.
Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.
Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.
Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.
You scored round 1 for Marquez? Dude you're blind. And stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was really a 10-7 round for Pac. Juan held and sat on the ropes just like his brother Rafa (Izzy-Rafa 3 rd.12) after he took some blistering combos from Pac.
Round 3 was a 10-7 round ???
Please elaborate on this... Im looking for some sort of Rule or Regulation that supports your point.
Not that im disagreeing with you per say, but i just don't see how so..?
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.
Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.
Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.
You scored round 1 for Marquez? Dude you're blind. And stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was really a 10-7 round for Pac. Juan held and sat on the ropes just like his brother Rafa (Izzy-Rafa 3 rd.12) after he took some blistering combos from Pac.
Round 3 was a 10-7 round ???
Please elaborate on this... Im looking for some sort of Rule or Regulation that supports your point.
Not that im disagreeing with you per say, but i just don't see how so..?
I'm pretty sure he's referring to the end of the round where after knocking him down Pac staggers Marquez, who stumbles backwards and very brieftly grabs the ropes. It was unclear whether or not Marquez would've gone down without grabbing the ropes, but I really doubt it. It was nothing like Rafa grabbing the ropes in rd. 12 against Vazquez.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Okay yeah i figured he was on about that incident but i always overlooked it as a 'nearly'.
But as far as the rules go, does that mean that it should of been scored a knockdown?
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Okay yeah i figured he was on about that incident but i always overlooked it as a 'nearly'.
But as far as the rules go, does that mean that it should of been scored a knockdown?
I believe the rules state that if the ropes are the only thing holding a fighter up then it should be ruled a knockdown. In my opinion, it is not conclusive whether or not the ropes were the only things holding up JMM. Without briefly grabbing them he may have staggered back a few feet but it is impossible to tell if he would've gone down without grabbing them. This is the case for me even after watching the end of the round several times, so it would have been impossible for the ref to make a conclusive call and rule it a knockdown. It's nothing like the Rafa incident he sites because Rafa was badly hurt and it was very clear the ropes were the only thing holding him up.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Oh dear :-\
Thanks man, but now i I need to re-re-re-watch :rolleyes:
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.
Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.
-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.
Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.
Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.
Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.
You scored round 1 for Marquez? Dude you're blind. And stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was really a 10-7 round for Pac. Juan held and sat on the ropes just like his brother Rafa (Izzy-Rafa 3 rd.12) after he took some blistering combos from Pac.
Uhh please put your Manny Pacquiao fan boy glasses away, and just accept the fact people have different opinions. I gave the 1st round to JMM i don't need to explain it because i already gave my reason's above.
Stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was a 10-7 round ? excuse me but was it scored a 10-7 round ? did any of the judges score it 10-7 ? so why should i score it 10-7 ? yes some ref's may of ruled it a 10-7 round, but he didn't some ref's don't always rule it a knockdown if a fighter get knocked back towards the ropes. I could mention hundreds of incident's when thats happened.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Heres my scorecard Taeth from ages ago.
1 Marquez
2 Marquez
3 Pacquiao 10-8
4 Pacquiao
5 Marquez
6 Marquez
7 Pacquiao
8 Marquez
9 Pacquiao
10 Pacquiao
11 Marquez
12 Marquez
114-113 JMM
I think the 8th round was borderline 10-8 round for JMM aswell.
And lastly that post i made with all the score's was just to prove your point wrong, about the Mexican/Spanish comment.
Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.
Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.
-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.
Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.
Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.
Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.
the 11th is a STRONG round for Pacquiao. Its almost a clear round for him.
You cant prove it, i cant prove it so we go to the official card.
Its your opinion againts my opinion. 115-112 for Gerry Roth because he probably like accurate counters. 115-112 for Duane ford probably because he likes aggression and the harders shots landed. I repeat 8 rounds were unclear so 114-113 either way is good.
But to create a thread about reverting official victories is ridiculous. the scores were justifiable.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Reverting one official boxing result is a tedious process... Reverting 2 official results in the 2 fights of the same set of boxers is so much of a stretch...
I'm just wondering why Team JMM didn't lodge a formal complaint regarding these alleged "robberies"... Guess Team JMM is just all talk...
.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
After watching this fight twice today, IMO Marquez won much clearer than I previously thought.
His punches were much more effective, and he was landing the cleaner punches much more often.
Those two strong punches that Pacquiao landed in the 11 and 3 should not change the outcome of this fight.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Just reading this interesting old thread :cool:
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Since this thread im a bit more clued up on JMM. And i think the only fight he has lost, is the one against Floyd Mayweather Jr. Which wasn't at a fair weightclass, this is how i see his close decisions.
Julian Wheeler = Ok it didn't go the distance, but it was close going into the last round, and some people felt Julian Wheeler was DQ'ed too early. But JMM was having a great last round, and was on the verge of stopping Julian Wheeler, and Julian Wheeler did hold on quite a bit. No doubt JMM would of stopped him without all the holding.
Freddie Norwood = JMM won this by few points IMO, even the HBO crew thought he won aswell. It was a messy/horrible fight. But if you pay attention and score it RBR, really taking note i think your find JMM won a clear decision although pretty close. JMM won this fight no doubt in my mind.
Manny Pacquiao 1 = Easy fight to score for me, JMM won 8 rounds to 4. But because of the 4 point round, 113-112 JMM.
Chris John = Had point's taken away when he didn't derserve, a seriously biased ref. And despite all that was against JMM, he still won a clear but close decision.
MAB = A reasonably close fight, if i remember rightly i had JMM winning 115-113. A great technical fight one of my favorites.
Manny Pacquiao 2 = My scoring hasn't changed 7 rounds to 5 for JMM, but because of the 2 point round 114-113 JMM.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Since this thread im a bit more clued up on JMM. And i think the only fight he has lost, is the one against Floyd Mayweather Jr. Which wasn't at a fair weightclass, this is how i see his close decisions.
Julian Wheeler = Ok it didn't go the distance, but it was close going into the last round, and some people felt Julian Wheeler was DQ'ed too early. But JMM was having a great last round, and was on the verge of stopping Julian Wheeler, and Julian Wheeler did hold on quite a bit. No doubt JMM would of stopped him without all the holding.
Freddie Norwood = JMM won this by few points IMO, even the HBO crew thought he won aswell. It was a messy/horrible fight. But if you pay attention and score it RBR, really taking note i think your find JMM won a clear decision although pretty close. JMM won this fight no doubt in my mind.
Manny Pacquiao 1 = Easy fight to score for me, JMM won 8 rounds to 4. But because of the 4 point round, 113-112 JMM.
Chris John = Had point's taken away when he didn't derserve, a seriously biased ref. And despite all that was against JMM, he still won a clear but close decision.
MAB = A reasonably close fight, if i remember rightly i had JMM winning 115-113. A great technical fight one of my favorites.
Manny Pacquiao 2 = My scoring hasn't changed 7 rounds to 5 for JMM, but because of the 2 point round 114-113 JMM.
If all of that were actually correct (and it may well be) then JMM has to go down as an ATG, and up there with PBF and PAC
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
JMM is a great, but not up there with PBF and Pac.
Accomplishments and resume are the main criteria and JMM's resume and accomplishments aren't up there with those 2, imo. JMM is a great fighter no doubt about it.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
i definitely think marquez has gotten a few rotten decisions against him. but it's true, he could very well have only one defeat instead of five. the man is an excellent counter puncher with amazing recovery skills. at 37 years old, i think he may have only about one year to fight at an optimum level then father time is going to decline his skills. i consider him better than erik morales, marco antonio barrera and on par, skill wise, with pacquiao.
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Re: Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Probably the majority believe JMM won both fights with Pac and the majority think JMM was robbed against Chris John, so the would make their records as follows:
Pac 48-5-1
JMM 53 -1 (+ 1 DQ)
It's the records I go by. There the correct ones
Might of been the best thread you ever made.
