I also will completely lose any faith in Cotto fighting another truly tough fight if he moves up in weight to fight Chavez Jr. but won't move up in weight to fight Martinez. Cotto is a p4p fighter. It is fair for us to expect more.
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I also will completely lose any faith in Cotto fighting another truly tough fight if he moves up in weight to fight Chavez Jr. but won't move up in weight to fight Martinez. Cotto is a p4p fighter. It is fair for us to expect more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Yup, it didn't mean much. For the mentally impaired (like you Joey ;)) Manny's greatest accomplishment is winning four legitimate lineal crowns, the only man in history to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiManny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThis is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!
But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?
He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb
So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...
A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.
Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.
But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?
Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?
You say the Margo fight didn't mean much? Are you kidding? It's your claim to fame for Manny so you can remind us he has won titles in as many divisions as he has. Since it didn't mean much I will give you permission to dock one number from the number you use when describing how many titles hes won. You said it yourself...it didn't mean much.
The straps at 122, 135, 147 and 154 mean nothing. Lineal or as i call them THE MAN titles are all that carry any weight. The rest are merely a function of how corrupt a given alphabet group feels on a given day.
I respect that....Thank you Miyagi.. (:
Lies only become truth if other person chooses to believe them. [Look eye! ALWAYS look eye!]Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYup, it didn't mean much. For the mentally impaired (like you Joey ;)) Manny's greatest accomplishment is winning four legitimate lineal crowns, the only man in history to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiManny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThis is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!
But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?
He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb
So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...
A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.
Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.
But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?
Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?
You say the Margo fight didn't mean much? Are you kidding? It's your claim to fame for Manny so you can remind us he has won titles in as many divisions as he has. Since it didn't mean much I will give you permission to dock one number from the number you use when describing how many titles hes won. You said it yourself...it didn't mean much.
The straps at 122, 135, 147 and 154 mean nothing. Lineal or as i call them THE MAN titles are all that carry any weight. The rest are merely a function of how corrupt a given alphabet group feels on a given day.
I respect that....Thank you Miyagi.. (:
Let's get back on topic. If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport as a lot of people have claimed, why not move up to fight Andre Ward or any top 168 pound fighter. Since his division sucks. Hell it was just mentioned that Cotto should move up to 160 and fight him.
So everyone from the lower weights should move up to fight Martinez, but Martinez is given a pass to not move up?
Great logic ain't it?
I hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
I agree Guerrero is the name there who I think could really bring something. Granted I had him losing to Ishe Smith, but I'm of the opinion that Smith could give absolute hell to any of the top guys from 154-160, probably Martinez excepted. Anyway Guerrero has a huge fanbase in Maryland, is a really engaging guy & has bags of power.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
There's also hope that Jacobs can rebound from the Pirog loss, although that's probably another year away also. Korobov as well. There's a whole group of hungry .young MWs who could be very good.
I think another, if he plans to make MW, who could be very good sooner than that is Peter Quillin. Bags of power & speed & appears to have been brought along very well. Another two fights & he could fight for an alphabet & win imo & then might be the best choice for Martinez.
Martinez probably will have to do a 'bum' of the month thing because it's unrealistic that either Pacquiao or Mayweather should have to move up any more particularly with how outsized they looked against opponents at 154. I think the main thing is HBO has to be realistic & try to bring guys like Sturm, Pirog & Geale to the table in terms of the money they put up for the shows.
Ishe is a great measuring stick isn't he? Korobov is a name I had forgotten and he belongs on that list. I wonder if Sergio doesn't belong in Europe for a while. I wonder if he could make decent money with Sturm, N'Jikam, Sylvester, Golovkin. Try to build a real following and do what the Klitschkos do?Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI agree Guerrero is the name there who I think could really bring something. Granted I had him losing to Ishe Smith, but I'm of the opinion that Smith could give absolute hell to any of the top guys from 154-160, probably Martinez excepted. Anyway Guerrero has a huge fanbase in Maryland, is a really engaging guy & has bags of power.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
There's also hope that Jacobs can rebound from the Pirog loss, although that's probably another year away also. Korobov as well. There's a whole group of hungry .young MWs who could be very good.
I think another, if he plans to make MW, who could be very good sooner than that is Peter Quillin. Bags of power & speed & appears to have been brought along very well. Another two fights & he could fight for an alphabet & win imo & then might be the best choice for Martinez.
Martinez probably will have to do a 'bum' of the month thing because it's unrealistic that either Pacquiao or Mayweather should have to move up any more particularly with how outsized they looked against opponents at 154. I think the main thing is HBO has to be realistic & try to bring guys like Sturm, Pirog & Geale to the table in terms of the money they put up for the shows.
But with HBO on board that's probably a loser of an idea.
If I'm not mistaken, Sergio's parents are Spaniards that immigrated to Argentina. So maybe Sergio could fight out of Spain or some place in Europe something like that and tries to make gobs of money fighting mediocre opposition like the Klits?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiIshe is a great measuring stick isn't he? Korobov is a name I had forgotten and he belongs on that list. I wonder if Sergio doesn't belong in Europe for a while. I wonder if he could make decent money with Sturm, N'Jikam, Sylvester, Golovkin. Try to build a real following and do what the Klitschkos do?Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI agree Guerrero is the name there who I think could really bring something. Granted I had him losing to Ishe Smith, but I'm of the opinion that Smith could give absolute hell to any of the top guys from 154-160, probably Martinez excepted. Anyway Guerrero has a huge fanbase in Maryland, is a really engaging guy & has bags of power.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
There's also hope that Jacobs can rebound from the Pirog loss, although that's probably another year away also. Korobov as well. There's a whole group of hungry .young MWs who could be very good.
I think another, if he plans to make MW, who could be very good sooner than that is Peter Quillin. Bags of power & speed & appears to have been brought along very well. Another two fights & he could fight for an alphabet & win imo & then might be the best choice for Martinez.
Martinez probably will have to do a 'bum' of the month thing because it's unrealistic that either Pacquiao or Mayweather should have to move up any more particularly with how outsized they looked against opponents at 154. I think the main thing is HBO has to be realistic & try to bring guys like Sturm, Pirog & Geale to the table in terms of the money they put up for the shows.
But with HBO on board that's probably a loser of an idea.
I believe that he did fight out of Madrid up until the Saul Roman fight or thereabouts. Never became a name over there because Spain doesn't have the following for boxing that the UK or Germany have. If he was looking to make money somewhere those two or Italy would be the best choices. In fact, I've often wondered why we don't take advantage of European Casino venues in Monte Carlo or San Remo to build up a viable alternative to Vegas & Atlantic City.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Hey that worked for Carlos Monzon a couple of times!Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI believe that he did fight out of Madrid up until the Saul Roman fight or thereabouts. Never became a name over there because Spain doesn't have the following for boxing that the UK or Germany have. If he was looking to make money somewhere those two or Italy would be the best choices. In fact, I've often wondered why we don't take advantage of European Casino venues in Monte Carlo or San Remo to build up a viable alternative to Vegas & Atlantic City.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Golovkin will beat N'Jam. He'll make a good fight for Sergio down the road. Gennady also will be the mandatory for Sturm at some point (right?). Gennady should beat Sturm too. Gennady may be the goods. So, I agree bide his time at middleweight until someone emerges from the fray as a really worthy challenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
Mick or Killer, I can't recall, put me on to this middleweight prospect Gregorz Proksa a while ago. He's supposed to be solid. And there's always, Matvey Korobov who should emerge in the future. It's odd that Matvey Korobov's career hasn't progressed faster. Is it that he struggled more with Derrick Findley than they expected? Did you know that Korobov beat Ismail Syllakh in the amateurs?
Yeah Korobov seems to have gone sideways, and no, I did not know that. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratGolovkin will beat N'Jam. He'll make a good fight for Sergio down the road. Gennady also will be the mandatory for Sturm at some point (right?). Gennady should beat Sturm too. Gennady may be the goods. So, I agree bide his time at middleweight until someone emerges from the fray as a really worthy challenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
Mick or Killer, I can't recall, put me on to this middleweight prospect Gregorz Proksa a while ago. He's supposed to be solid. And there's always, Matvey Korobov who should emerge in the future. It's odd that Matvey Korobov's career hasn't progressed faster. Is it that he struggled more with Derrick Findley than they expected? Did you know that Korobov beat Ismail Syllakh in the amateurs?
Martinez won't fight them.
High risk, Low reward.
that's true, it's actually all about the money. that's is why martinez keeps calling floyd and pacquiao coz they're smaller guys who he feels he'd have an easier job of beating for the biggest payday of his career, which is nowhere near what he'd get fighting those other guys.
Why even make a big deal about this while ward, froch, and bute are already tied up with other plans for the forseable future. I think Martinez would prob beat any of them anyway.
I don't think Sergio should jump to 168 yet, I think the fight that makes the most sense is Sturm in Germany (because Sturm won't leave Germany since the ODLH debacle). I believe he should look to move up to 168 after the S6 is over (should be the end of this year I think). Second to that I think Geale would be the fall back option. I think a decent tertiary option is Pirog although he didn't look that great against Maciel.
Simple, cuz it takes 2 to tango...
Wards busy in the S6 and so is Froch.
I'm a huge Kess fan possibly the biggest fan on this side of the Atlantic.
But I'm certain he would want no part of Sergio as a comeback fight from an injury.
Bute & SHO already have his next 3 fights penciled in and they have a rough idea of the opponents. I'd bet my left ball that Sergio is not one of the names they have on there.
I forgot to mention that I think if he does move up he should fight Steiglitz to get his feet wet as I think that Sergio has what it takes to beat him...