Julio Jr. vs. Andy Lee Saturday night fight/chat thread

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

He keeps calling out Martinez like a rooster and yet people would have to be stupid to think that he would fight him with all that bravado unless he would get a bunch of advantages. If Arum thinks Martinez is going to fight him in a ring the size of a ten cent stamp, allow him to bring his own gloves, with an Arum ref in Texas and ignore the new same day weigh in rule effective June 30th he needs to give his head a shake. Even tonight they somehow got a pass on the piss test and that’s with day before weigh ins.

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Like it or not, Martinez will take the fight on whatever terms Chavez's team dictates. Chavez is the economically more substantial fighter, so that's just how it works, like it or not. Personally, I think Chavez has a much better chance to win than I thought 24 hours ago. Keep in mind, Martinez had some struggles with freakin' Darren Baker and Matthew Macklin before closing strong, so let's not pretend like he's unbeatable. He's a touch overrated, frankly. Chavez's size and body work give him a solid chance.

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I never suggested anything about Martinez other then he's not going to succumb to Arums fixing and you can bank that. I'd rather see him melt down and fight Floyd at 154 then fight this cruiser weight posing as a middle weight champion,

Its all moot anyway since same day weigh ins will be in effect at the end in of this month and Chavez's camp has already said Lee was his last fight at 160. Martinez is not going to allow the deck to be loaded against him.

I mean really...think about it, he was allowed to bring his own gloves to a championship fight and refused to weigh them wtf?

That is like sanctioning Resto's gloves prior to the Collins fight,

Do no something JCC Jr is not to bad a fighter, he's better than most people think not saying he's a superstar but a solid Champion none the lest.
I feel he's coming out of his Fathers shadow, and we should not judge just because his Father was a modern great Jr, is his own man he's proven a good few people wrong egg on the face job.;)

For what it is worth, I had Chavez up 4-2 at the time the fight ended. Also, while Chavez may well have been 175 at fight time, there's no way on earth that Lee wasn't as well. Not having seen Chavez before, and reading the disregard in which he is held on-line, I wasn't expecting much. But I thought he fought really well, he is a much better fighter than Lee.
He reminded me of his father with his patient start (there is a difference between starting slow and taking your time), and once he got Lee sorted out and dialed in, he made him fight his fight and beat him down. It is easy to say he should have moved and jabbed, but it is less easy to do when a guy is cutting off the ring and keeping you in front of him. Doesn't strike me that 'sticking and moving' in Lee's game anyway. As to the ring size, Lee's trainer and manager knows the game pretty good himself. If he thought it would be an issue, he has never been known to be shy.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

For what it is worth, I had Chavez up 4-2 at the time the fight ended. Also, while Chavez may well have been 175 at fight time, there's no way on earth that Lee wasn't as well. Not having seen Chavez before, and reading the disregard in which he is held on-line, I wasn't expecting much. But I thought he fought really well, he is a much better fighter than Lee.
He reminded me of his father with his patient start (there is a difference between starting slow and taking your time), and once he got Lee sorted out and dialed in, he made him fight his fight and beat him down. It is easy to say he should have moved and jabbed, but it is less easy to do when a guy is cutting off the ring and keeping you in front of him. Doesn't strike me that 'sticking and moving' in Lee's game anyway. As to the ring size, Lee's trainer and manager knows the game pretty good himself. If he thought it would be an issue, he has never been known to be shy.

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Good post, the fight was only going to go one way after the first couple of rounds. I thought maybe Lee hit a bit harder than he seemed to and had a chance to hurt Chavez, but once Jr. walked through a few good shots it was just a matter of time. Lee is far to easy to hit himself and really can't take a lot, so I still dont know what kind of chance I give Chavez against Martinez. Glad to hear that is being made so quickly though, it's a fun fight.

Scorecards for the fight

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...47834688_n.jpg

Andy Lee's limitations were apparent last night, he's awkward, lacks mobility and looked 'weak' against the stronger, faster Chavez Jr. Lee's punches didn't faze Julio, but almost everything Jr. was throwing was hurting Lee. It's interesting that all the Judges had Lee winning going into the 7th round.

Granted, this was Andy Lee, but I thought Jr. looked impressive, he's determined, got a good chin, and throws an array of power punches to the head and body with bad intentions. He's come a long way, especially considering he had no amateur career.

Martinez vs Chavez Jr. should be a fucking barn burner. (anywhere but Texas)

That's weird, all three judges had Lee ahead at the stoppage? Certainly a fix wasn't in the works for this one, not that it was ever going to matter. I was watching it at the same time as Chambers Adamek but it did seem Lee was getting beat up for the most part after the first 2..

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Originally Posted by p4pking

That's weird, all three judges had Lee ahead at the stoppage? Certainly a fix wasn't in the works for this one, not that it was ever going to matter. I was watching it at the same time as Chambers Adamek but it did seem Lee was getting beat up for the most part after the first 2..

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Chavez was throwing really hard shots to Lee's head and body that started taking it's toll. Even though Lee gave a good account of himself in the 5th and 6th rounds, he had the look of a beaten fighter. The ref did the right thing stopping the fight in the 7th, Lee was on his way to being knocked out.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by p4pking

That's weird, all three judges had Lee ahead at the stoppage? Certainly a fix wasn't in the works for this one, not that it was ever going to matter. I was watching it at the same time as Chambers Adamek but it did seem Lee was getting beat up for the most part after the first 2..

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Chavez was throwing really hard shots to Lee's head and body that started taking it's toll. Even though Lee gave a good account of himself in the 5th and 6th rounds, he had the look of a beaten fighter. The ref did the right thing stopping the fight in the 7th, Lee was on his way to being knocked out.

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Yeah for sure, Chavez was so much stronger and way more durable, it was inevitable. I'm just surpsised that the judges gave Lee so much love on the scorecards, given that he was falling apart like that. Two judges had Lee winning the 5th and 6th rounds, kind of nuts imo.

Just saw the end, where was the ref? That was brutal and he was defenseless.

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Originally Posted by Master

Just saw the end, where was the ref? That was brutal and he was defenseless.

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Cole jumped in and waved it off at the right time Master, any sooner and they would have said it was premature.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

For what it is worth, I had Chavez up 4-2 at the time the fight ended. Also, while Chavez may well have been 175 at fight time, there's no way on earth that Lee wasn't as well. Not having seen Chavez before, and reading the disregard in which he is held on-line, I wasn't expecting much. But I thought he fought really well, he is a much better fighter than Lee.
He reminded me of his father with his patient start (there is a difference between starting slow and taking your time), and once he got Lee sorted out and dialed in, he made him fight his fight and beat him down. It is easy to say he should have moved and jabbed, but it is less easy to do when a guy is cutting off the ring and keeping you in front of him. Doesn't strike me that 'sticking and moving' in Lee's game anyway. As to the ring size, Lee's trainer and manager knows the game pretty good himself. If he thought it would be an issue, he has never been known to be shy.

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I can understand you having it 4-2 for Chavez, because even though Lee might have been up 4-2 on the judges scorecards, Chavez' punches were far more effective. Andy would connect with punches but they didn't move Jr.

I wouldn't mind chavez it just seems tho that he's being let to get away with some shit with the whole botched drug testin a few months back, and not producin a sample yesterday, just seems shady....he's gona have a chance against sergio since hell outweigh him by 20lbs

Chavez looked really good in there last night.
He surprised me on how easy he was taking Lee's shots, as well as landing his own vicious body punching to follow up up-stairs.

As far as the Martinez/Chavez fight I still give the edge to Martinez.
Chavez will impose his size and strength, and Martinez will get roughed up and bullied for sure. But, last night Lee landed two of his best shots in a straight left and a right hook up top. Those are coincidentally Martinez's two best punches, not too mention the jab Lee kept landing. As much as Martinez will get in close to land his shots, I don't believe he will trade punches with Chavez. IMO, he will circle and land his overhand left/straight with right hook over the top ( similar to what Pacquiao does) and box Chavez's ear off if not stopping him from Julio taking too much flush shots. I would be really surprised if Chavez was stopped though.

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Originally Posted by armin

I wouldn't mind chavez it just seems tho that he's being let to get away with some shit with the whole botched drug testin a few months back, and not producin a sample yesterday, just seems shady....he's gona have a chance against sergio since hell outweigh him by 20lbs

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I don't get why the Texas Boxing Commission doesn't do testing, I thought that was mandatory everywhere. Jr. may not be using PEDs, but I believe he needs to be tested and get that cleared up, something stinks to high heaven.

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Originally Posted by hardcore_crash

Chavez looked really good in there last night.
He surprised me on how easy he was taking Lee's shots, as well as landing his own vicious body punching to follow up up-stairs.

As far as the Martinez/Chavez fight I still give the edge to Martinez.
Chavez will impose his size and strength, and Martinez will get roughed up and bullied for sure. But, last night Lee landed two of his best shots in a straight left and a right hook up top. Those are coincidentally Martinez's two best punches, not too mention the jab Lee kept landing. As much as Martinez will get in close to land his shots, I don't believe he will trade punches with Chavez. IMO, he will circle and land his overhand left/straight with right hook over the top ( similar to what Pacquiao does) and box Chavez's ear off if not stopping him from Julio taking too much flush shots. I would be really surprised if Chavez was stopped though.

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Truth be told Chavez is A LOT closer to Martinez's stable mate Gabriel Campillo's size than Sergio's size.

Still think Sergio would school him, but there would be some rough spots as Chavez is very determined, strong and a good body puncher.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by armin

I wouldn't mind chavez it just seems tho that he's being let to get away with some shit with the whole botched drug testin a few months back, and not producin a sample yesterday, just seems shady....he's gona have a chance against sergio since hell outweigh him by 20lbs

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I don't get why the Texas Boxing Commission doesn't do testing, I thought that was mandatory everywhere. Jr. may not be using PEDs, but I believe he needs to be tested and get that cleared up, something stinks to high heaven.

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He was unable to provide a sample apparently. I guess that's because he was so dehydrated. Geeh I wonder what he will do then for same day weigh ins lol. Probably claim his dick is at the mechanics.

I don't get extremely upset all that much but the history involving this kid really gets under my skin and its does go back to his father whose career I also watched. This is not the first time he was able to bypass a piss test either.

What gets under my skin more then anything is the glove thing. I cant recall anytime in all of boxing modern day history when a title holder was allowed to bring his own gloves from home or whatever and then refuse to have them scrutinized.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by armin

I wouldn't mind chavez it just seems tho that he's being let to get away with some shit with the whole botched drug testin a few months back, and not producin a sample yesterday, just seems shady....he's gona have a chance against sergio since hell outweigh him by 20lbs

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I don't get why the Texas Boxing Commission doesn't do testing, I thought that was mandatory everywhere. Jr. may not be using PEDs, but I believe he needs to be tested and get that cleared up, something stinks to high heaven.

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He was unable to provide a sample apparently. I guess that's because he was so dehydrated. Geeh I wonder what he will do then for same day weigh ins lol. Probably claim his dick is at the mechanics.

I don't get extremely upset all that much but the history involving this kid really gets under my skin and its does go back to his father whose career I also watched. This is not the first time he was able to bypass a piss test either.

What gets under my skin more then anything is the glove thing. I cant recall anytime in all of boxing modern day history when a title holder was allowed to bring his own gloves from home or whatever and then refuse to have them scrutinized.

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yeah somethin definitely ain't right but the comission is apparently letting him do whatever the fuck he and his team want to

Still can't see Martinez losing to Chavez. If Lee can outbox him marginally Martinez will beat him down and bad.

the writing was on the wall for Lee from the 4 th round on

Thanks for covering the fight for me fellas. I didn't post on it, but I read about it. I also watched the card on NBCSports which was ok I guess. Sad that Lee lost, but I don't know, he seems to have found his level and it's just not world class right now and I am doubting it ever will be unless the top guys at 160 move to 168 or Andy somehow fills out his frame and develops more power or suddenly develops a defense.

Junior has developed into a good middleweight over the past two years. He has wins over Zbik, Lee and Rubio, pretty quality opposition. Ask yourself which middleweights you would favor over him right now. Pirog, Golovkin, Sturm maybe, Geale maybe, Quillin maybe.

His fight with Martinez will be a good fight. It's not game-set-match for Martinez, like it appeared to be a while ago. He's so much bigger than Martinez and he'll hit Martinez with the strongest punches Martinez will have been hit with, maybe ever. Lefkowitz already said that he planned on requesting a 20/20 ring and that the fight will be in Nevada where they test for drugs. I had no idea drug testing wasn't required in Texas. Is that really the case? Also, what is with the rumor about same-day weighing in that I heard the WBC is implementing from now on. That might make it impossible for Junior to fight for a WBC belt at 160, if he couldn't even provide a urine sample because he was so dehydrated.

Quillen is a stablemate of Junior's though as they are both trained by Freddy Roach. I think at this point Quillen is too raw to fight JC Jr., but eventually he could compete. I don't think Quillen has had his chin tested yet either

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Originally Posted by Master

This is on Box nation tonight,did they show it live?

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Yes.

As far as Chavez versus Martinez goes I think Martinez wins but Chavez gets the decision.

And I don't believe those scorecards. I think that's just so that the next time there's a massive robbery in Texas the commission can point to them and say, look, we had Lee ahead of Chavez.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Junior has developed into a good middleweight over the past two years. He has wins over Zbik, Lee and Rubio, pretty quality opposition. Ask yourself which middleweights you would favor over him right now. Pirog, Golovkin, Sturm maybe, Geale maybe, Quillin maybe.

His fight with Martinez will be a good fight. It's not game-set-match for Martinez, like it appeared to be a while ago. He's so much bigger than Martinez and he'll hit Martinez with the strongest punches Martinez will have been hit with, maybe ever. Lefkowitz already said that he planned on requesting a 20/20 ring and that the fight will be in Nevada where they test for drugs. I had no idea drug testing wasn't required in Texas. Is that really the case? Also, what is with the rumor about same-day weighing in that I heard the WBC is implementing from now on. That might make it impossible for Junior to fight for a WBC belt at 160, if he couldn't even provide a urine sample because he was so dehydrated.

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Huh a good middleweight?? He's a freakin light-heavyweight and unless the Chavez family friend Jose backs off on implementing same day weigh ins as of June 30th, he will never fight at middle again. Oh I know they already have Martinez listed at boxrec and all kinds of people are claiming its done out of both camps but I'll wait for the bell.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Junior has developed into a good middleweight over the past two years. He has wins over Zbik, Lee and Rubio, pretty quality opposition. Ask yourself which middleweights you would favor over him right now. Pirog, Golovkin, Sturm maybe, Geale maybe, Quillin maybe.

His fight with Martinez will be a good fight. It's not game-set-match for Martinez, like it appeared to be a while ago. He's so much bigger than Martinez and he'll hit Martinez with the strongest punches Martinez will have been hit with, maybe ever. Lefkowitz already said that he planned on requesting a 20/20 ring and that the fight will be in Nevada where they test for drugs. I had no idea drug testing wasn't required in Texas. Is that really the case? Also, what is with the rumor about same-day weighing in that I heard the WBC is implementing from now on. That might make it impossible for Junior to fight for a WBC belt at 160, if he couldn't even provide a urine sample because he was so dehydrated.

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Huh a good middleweight?? He's a freakin light-heavyweight and unless the Chavez family friend Jose backs off on implementing same day weigh ins as of June 30th, he will never fight at middle again. Oh I know they already have Martinez listed at boxrec and all kinds of people are claiming its done out of both camps but I'll wait for the bell.

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Since he has fought only in Texas since failing a drug test in Nevada, it is suspect whether he can really make the middleweight limit safely. As long as he can make the weight legally and safely, he's a middleweight though.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Junior has developed into a good middleweight over the past two years. He has wins over Zbik, Lee and Rubio, pretty quality opposition. Ask yourself which middleweights you would favor over him right now. Pirog, Golovkin, Sturm maybe, Geale maybe, Quillin maybe.

His fight with Martinez will be a good fight. It's not game-set-match for Martinez, like it appeared to be a while ago. He's so much bigger than Martinez and he'll hit Martinez with the strongest punches Martinez will have been hit with, maybe ever. Lefkowitz already said that he planned on requesting a 20/20 ring and that the fight will be in Nevada where they test for drugs. I had no idea drug testing wasn't required in Texas. Is that really the case? Also, what is with the rumor about same-day weighing in that I heard the WBC is implementing from now on. That might make it impossible for Junior to fight for a WBC belt at 160, if he couldn't even provide a urine sample because he was so dehydrated.

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Huh a good middleweight?? He's a freakin light-heavyweight and unless the Chavez family friend Jose backs off on implementing same day weigh ins as of June 30th, he will never fight at middle again. Oh I know they already have Martinez listed at boxrec and all kinds of people are claiming its done out of both camps but I'll wait for the bell.

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Since he has fought only in Texas since failing a drug test in Nevada, it is suspect whether he can really make the middleweight limit safely. As long as he can make the weight legally and safely, he's a middleweight though.

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True. It appears Jose is going to back track on his new rule of same day weigh ins. Big surprise.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Junior has developed into a good middleweight over the past two years. He has wins over Zbik, Lee and Rubio, pretty quality opposition. Ask yourself which middleweights you would favor over him right now. Pirog, Golovkin, Sturm maybe, Geale maybe, Quillin maybe.

His fight with Martinez will be a good fight. It's not game-set-match for Martinez, like it appeared to be a while ago. He's so much bigger than Martinez and he'll hit Martinez with the strongest punches Martinez will have been hit with, maybe ever. Lefkowitz already said that he planned on requesting a 20/20 ring and that the fight will be in Nevada where they test for drugs. I had no idea drug testing wasn't required in Texas. Is that really the case? Also, what is with the rumor about same-day weighing in that I heard the WBC is implementing from now on. That might make it impossible for Junior to fight for a WBC belt at 160, if he couldn't even provide a urine sample because he was so dehydrated.

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Huh a good middleweight?? He's a freakin light-heavyweight and unless the Chavez family friend Jose backs off on implementing same day weigh ins as of June 30th, he will never fight at middle again. Oh I know they already have Martinez listed at boxrec and all kinds of people are claiming its done out of both camps but I'll wait for the bell.

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Since he has fought only in Texas since failing a drug test in Nevada, it is suspect whether he can really make the middleweight limit safely. As long as he can make the weight legally and safely, he's a middleweight though.

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True. It appears Jose is going to back track on his new rule of same day weigh ins. Big surprise.

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Frankly, the fact that he hasn't fought in Nevada, where there is stricter drug testing procedures than Texas (doesn't say much), since failing a test, is at best, odd, at worst, highly suspicious. Then, even in Texas, for some reason or the other, he didn't take drug tests for this fight and his last fight against Rubio.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Junior has developed into a good middleweight over the past two years. He has wins over Zbik, Lee and Rubio, pretty quality opposition. Ask yourself which middleweights you would favor over him right now. Pirog, Golovkin, Sturm maybe, Geale maybe, Quillin maybe.

His fight with Martinez will be a good fight. It's not game-set-match for Martinez, like it appeared to be a while ago. He's so much bigger than Martinez and he'll hit Martinez with the strongest punches Martinez will have been hit with, maybe ever. Lefkowitz already said that he planned on requesting a 20/20 ring and that the fight will be in Nevada where they test for drugs. I had no idea drug testing wasn't required in Texas. Is that really the case? Also, what is with the rumor about same-day weighing in that I heard the WBC is implementing from now on. That might make it impossible for Junior to fight for a WBC belt at 160, if he couldn't even provide a urine sample because he was so dehydrated.

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Huh a good middleweight?? He's a freakin light-heavyweight and unless the Chavez family friend Jose backs off on implementing same day weigh ins as of June 30th, he will never fight at middle again. Oh I know they already have Martinez listed at boxrec and all kinds of people are claiming its done out of both camps but I'll wait for the bell.

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Since he has fought only in Texas since failing a drug test in Nevada, it is suspect whether he can really make the middleweight limit safely. As long as he can make the weight legally and safely, he's a middleweight though.

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True. It appears Jose is going to back track on his new rule of same day weigh ins. Big surprise.

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Frankly, the fact that he hasn't fought in Nevada, where there is stricter drug testing procedures than Texas (doesn't say much), since failing a test, is at best, odd, at worst, highly suspicious. Then, even in Texas, for some reason or the other, he didn't take drug tests for this fight and his last fight against Rubio.

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Yeah apparently he could not manage a sample. And yeah that was the second time. The last time his managed a sample he tested positive for banned diuretics.

He gets a ring the size of a ten cent stamp.
He gets to pass on the pre fight urine test with the simple claim that he cant produce a sample.
He gets to bring his own gloves to a championship fight.
He gets to refuse said gloves to be weighed.
He gets his travelling ref Lawrence Cole.
He gets to weigh 185 pounds to defend his 160 title.

The glove thing alone makes my skin crawl.

Not only has Junior been coddled his entire career..... NOW he's also being protected by being able to wipe all the rules where the sun don't shine. His famous daddy is best friends with Mafioso Jose Sulaiman, and together they're bent on making Junior famous by feeding him bums and flagrantly violating all the rules. Rules..... I might add, that Sulaiman conveniently changes, disregards, and plays with to the benefit of his buddy's coddled son. He'll probably beat Martinez, also.... because he'll be WAY bigger than Martinez when they get into the ring, although according to the WBC he'll just be a middleweight. I think once and for all, they should just change the name of the organization from WBC, to MBC. After all..... those are the only interests being served by them.

;)

I saw the whole fight and I had Junior winning 4-2 up. It will be a quality fight between Segio and Junior cannot wait.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Not only has Junior been coddled his entire career..... NOW he's also being protected by being able to wipe all the rules where the sun don't shine. His famous daddy is best friends with Mafioso Jose Sulaiman, and together they're bent on making Junior famous by feeding him bums and flagrantly violating all the rules. Rules..... I might add, that Sulaiman conveniently changes, disregards, and plays with to the benefit of his buddy's coddled son. He'll probably beat Martinez, also.... because he'll be WAY bigger than Martinez when they get into the ring, although according to the WBC he'll just be a middleweight. I think once and for all, they should just change the name of the organization from WBC, to MBC. After all..... those are the only interests being served by them.

;)

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Lol Jose and Sr probably live on the same street and chow down on chorizo at family get togethers.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Not only has Junior been coddled his entire career..... NOW he's also being protected by being able to wipe all the rules where the sun don't shine. His famous daddy is best friends with Mafioso Jose Sulaiman, and together they're bent on making Junior famous by feeding him bums and flagrantly violating all the rules. Rules..... I might add, that Sulaiman conveniently changes, disregards, and plays with to the benefit of his buddy's coddled son. He'll probably beat Martinez, also.... because he'll be WAY bigger than Martinez when they get into the ring, although according to the WBC he'll just be a middleweight. I think once and for all, they should just change the name of the organization from WBC, to MBC. After all..... those are the only interests being served by them.

;)

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If he makes 160 legally, he is entitled to fight there. In recent times, Pavlik and Abraham were pretty big middleweight too.

In regard to his weight, I read a funny tweet on Friday after the weigh in, it was from an obese gentlemen, and it read something like "hey WBC, can I use that scale when I weigh myself too?"

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Originally Posted by Master

I saw the whole fight and I had Junior winning 4-2 up. It will be a quality fight between Segio and Junior cannot wait.

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The scores ranged from 4-2 Chavez to 4-2 Lee. I had it 4-2 Lee, but Lee looked vulnerable all night. Lee's a tall middleweight, but in terms of size, he was dwarfed by Chavez.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Not only has Junior been coddled his entire career..... NOW he's also being protected by being able to wipe all the rules where the sun don't shine. His famous daddy is best friends with Mafioso Jose Sulaiman, and together they're bent on making Junior famous by feeding him bums and flagrantly violating all the rules. Rules..... I might add, that Sulaiman conveniently changes, disregards, and plays with to the benefit of his buddy's coddled son. He'll probably beat Martinez, also.... because he'll be WAY bigger than Martinez when they get into the ring, although according to the WBC he'll just be a middleweight. I think once and for all, they should just change the name of the organization from WBC, to MBC. After all..... those are the only interests being served by them.

;)

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If he makes 160 legally, he is entitled to fight there. In recent times, Pavlik and Abraham were pretty big middleweight too.

In regard to his weight, I read a funny tweet on Friday after the weigh in, it was from an obese gentlemen, and it read something like "hey WBC, can I use that scale when I weigh myself too?"

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Originally Posted by Master

I saw the whole fight and I had Junior winning 4-2 up. It will be a quality fight between Segio and Junior cannot wait.

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The scores ranged from 4-2 Chavez to 4-2 Lee. I had it 4-2 Lee, but Lee looked vulnerable all night. Lee's a tall middleweight, but in terms of size, he was dwarfed by Chavez.

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Pavlik and Abraham are pretty big heavyweights, yes. But they've finished growing into their bodies. Junior could still develop into a light heavy. If, as someone posted above, Sulaiman backtracks from his previous decision to implement same-day weigh-ins..... the rotten smell coming from the WBC Sulaiman-Chavez connection will only get worse. I can imagine Chavez Sr. chastizing Sulaiman for suggesting this rule in the first place.
"What the hell were you thinking, Jose? You trying to get my boy killed?"

Will all the other fishy stuff going on in Junior's fights (twice failing to produce a urine sample, refusal to allow gloves to be inspected, etc, etc, etc).... it won't be long before he starts turning off some fans, if he hasn't done so already.

Question:

I know Jr. didn't provide a urine sample pre-fight. At the time, the HBO guys said that because he couldn't produce a pre-fight sample, the TX commission would be taking a sample immediately after the fight, which is apparently permitted under their rules.

I have seen a bunch of posts here about how Jr. didn't provide any sample, but haven't seen reported anywhere that he didn't provide the post-fight sample that HBO said he'd be providing. Can someone confirm (preferably with a link) that that didn't happen?

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Originally Posted by shza

Question:

I know Jr. didn't provide a urine sample pre-fight. At the time, the HBO guys said that because he couldn't produce a pre-fight sample, the TX commission would be taking a sample immediately after the fight, which is apparently permitted under their rules.

I have seen a bunch of posts here about how Jr. didn't provide any sample, but haven't seen reported anywhere that he didn't provide the post-fight sample that HBO said he'd be providing. Can someone confirm (preferably with a link) that that didn't happen?

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Don't know if he didn't provide one for this fight, but he didn't get tested for the rubio fight at all you can google it should be mentioned in most any article, on phone so linking is a bitch.

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Originally Posted by shza

Question:

I know Jr. didn't provide a urine sample pre-fight. At the time, the HBO guys said that because he couldn't produce a pre-fight sample, the TX commission would be taking a sample immediately after the fight, which is apparently permitted under their rules.

I have seen a bunch of posts here about how Jr. didn't provide any sample, but haven't seen reported anywhere that he didn't provide the post-fight sample that HBO said he'd be providing. Can someone confirm (preferably with a link) that that didn't happen?

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Fat dan is reporting that he received a tweet from the Texas Commission that he did pre test.

I don't believe it and think it a form of damage control

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Originally Posted by armin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shza

Question:

I know Jr. didn't provide a urine sample pre-fight. At the time, the HBO guys said that because he couldn't produce a pre-fight sample, the TX commission would be taking a sample immediately after the fight, which is apparently permitted under their rules.

I have seen a bunch of posts here about how Jr. didn't provide any sample, but haven't seen reported anywhere that he didn't provide the post-fight sample that HBO said he'd be providing. Can someone confirm (preferably with a link) that that didn't happen?

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Don't know if he didn't provide one for this fight, but he didn't get tested for the rubio fight at all you can google it should be mentioned in most any article, on phone so linking is a bitch.

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I'm well aware that he didn't provide any sample for the Rubio fight. And that he got busted for diuretics previously. My question was very narrow: can someone confirm that he really did not provide a post-fight sample for the Lee fight. Numerous comments here say he provided "no sample," but the only thing I've seen or heard is that he provided no pre-fight sample. Per HBO at the time, he was going to be required to provide a post-fight sample. If he did, and it came out clean, then at least that part of the "unfair advantage" comments ought to go. (The gloves bit is obviously still extremely problematic.)

Yeah looks like espn is now sayin that a prefight drug test was submitted and hbo erroneously reported that he hadn't, still shady shit.

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Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

Ali is the greatest because of the opposition he faced and beat, far superior to Joe Louis.

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Tried to let it go but I cant and mean no offense at all.

Personally I have Louis as the ATG at heavyweight. People default to Ali because it’s a moniker that has been carried and because he said he was as part of his schtick. In private even Ali thinks it is Louis and for good reason.

He held the championship for close to 12 years and during that time he made 25 title defenses with 21 of them not reaching the final bell and 17 of those 21 not making the count of ten. He also knocked out 6 former hev champs and all of this in an era with only one belt.

Ali could not even handle Nortons jab. Louis had one of the best and perhaps the fastest jab in history. Consider even the Doug Jones fight. He was a limited and smallish hev for the era and he frustrated Ali with some arguing with validity that he won the fight.

Ali had issues with technical savvy fighters also. Just watch the Jimmy Young fight. A fight I most certainly think he lost. Ali has become this mythical almost deity like figure.

Futch:

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If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing .Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands. That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

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