Everyone misses that era of Heavy weight boxing! Tyson was an animal and would've loved to see him in his prime in UFC
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Everyone misses that era of Heavy weight boxing! Tyson was an animal and would've loved to see him in his prime in UFC
Tyson + UFC gloves = banning of UFC and MMAQuote:
Originally Posted by swboxer81
lol!! Very true manQuote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombTyson + UFC gloves = banning of UFC and MMAQuote:
Originally Posted by swboxer81
Iron Mike was a weird person.
Soup doesn't give you a hangover. Nor does salad. Posting links to Tyson having early nights, training in the small hours, and sparring hardly refutes theories he wasn't in shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
Post proof of the hangover you claim Tyson was suffering from.
For what it is worth, I accept that Tyson wasn't at his best, and Douglas fought the fight of his life. For this reason I rate Tyson higher than Douglas, but all of this is beside the point.
My point is that Tyson, like Wlad, ruled a weak era. He never looked good against a fighter with a hard jab and decent footwork (Holmes was rusty as hell, and Bruno had some success with the jab but should have doubled it up and followed through instead of stepping back).
The Tyson era was followed by three standouts rising from the ashes of the division. Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe. These three were a cut above anybody Tyson beat, and all three possessed the jab and ability to beat Mike at any stage of his career.
Styles make fights, and they had Tyson's number like Douglas. Were I to list the best fighters Tyson fought at the time he fought them and I would list Holyfield, Douglas and Lewis. I accept he was shot against Lewis.
Where do you rank a prime, GTI Tyson with a go faster stripe in the pantheon of greats?
Tyson's era was full of Ali wannabees who all tried to jab him. Pinklon Thomas had an excellent jab, so did Tony Tucker and even at an advanced age, Holmes had an excellent jab on par with anyone in the division.
Frank Bruno, whom you mentioned had a very potent jab. But he's weak when he fights Tyson but a great fighter when he nearly pounds Lewis out of consciousness. Amazing logic. Half of Lewis's resume is full of Tyson leftovers yet Lewis has a great resume.
Tyson's era was better than the current era and slightly less talented than the 90s overall. In other words, it was actually a good era and he cleaned it out. The previous era dominated by Larry Holmes was even worst and the first time he fought a real elite level fighter in Mike Tyson, he was embarrassed and got his clock cleaned.
You have nothing to say. Tyson would demolish this era overnight and reign for over a decade. Tyson would've dominated the 90s even after the loss to Douglas if he hand't gone to prison. Glass jaw Lewis who couldn't even handle Tyson's sparring partner would've been steamrolled and broken to bits. Holyfield would've been brutally KOed and Bowe, if he fought Mike, would've also been KOed. Tyson is the elite of the elite and would be able to rule any era under the right guidance and with the right discipline and focus. The 90s weren't really dominated by a single fighter but that era would have if Tyson hadn't gone to prison.
Bob you make some valid points I was worried that Tyson was imploding with the problems with Robin Givens during the Spinks and Bruno fights. Tyson was burning out and losing control. By the time Lennox, Bowe and Holyfield came he would probably have fought life and death with them but loses. No way would he have beaten them one after the other. My point is a peak Tyson with Rooney and stable lifestyle he could have lasted longer.
The way I see it he would have beaten Holyfield the first time they were due to fight in an epic war but probably lost the return and the one after that. If he did manage to beat Holyfield he would have definitely struggled with Bowe and Lewis. Saying all that Tyson could punch and a right cross against Lewis and a left hook to Bowe may have finished both early.
So where do you rank Tyson in the all time lists? And why is it that nobody in the sane world agrees with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
Ring magazine compiled a list of the best fighters of the last 80 years, based on decades of boxing knowledge from their scribes. Lewis was at number 53, Evander Holyfield was at 22. Where was Tyson? number one, two perhaps? Nope at 72. Guess them folks at Ring are as clueless as I am.
Tucker had an excellent jab? Tucker was always chided for the fact he had a lazy jab for a big man, and dropped his left after throwing it.
Any other revisions of history to throw in there? Still waiting for the evidence of Mike's hangover...
You're trying to rewrite history
Tucker had a good jab and if he isn't good enough for you then what about Tyrell Biggs? He had an excellent jab as well and literally tried to pull an Ali on Tyson. Lewis also had a LAZY jab that he would leave out there but I can guarantee you'd call it an excellent jab.
Everyone tried to jab Tyson but it failed. Being tall didn't help either so I'll already put aside that argument. The only punch that Tyson was susceptible to was the uppercut. He was a defensive wizard among heavyweights.
If you are resulting to using Ring magazine as an authority then there is nothing left for you to bring up. Ring magazine is a joke and so are all of these subjective lists compiled by these so called "pundits." You've already exposed that you actually don't know anything and you've hardly even watched any of Tysons fights.
He would eat Lewis alive, spark Holyfield and pound Bowe if these fights ever happened in the early 90s. Holyfield is "great" because he beat Bowe and Bowe is "great" because he beat Holyfield. Lewis is "great" because he fought Tyson left overs and was knocked unconscious in his prime ... TWICE.
Tyson beat a prime Razor Ruddock twice who was more dangerous than anyone Bowe or Holyfield fought to that point. Both Holyfield and Bowe DUCKED Ruddock and took on lesser opponents ... Holyfield took on a fat old Foreman who didn't deserve a shot and Bowe fought another bum in the long list of bums that make up his record. Lewis got to Ruddock after he had been destroyed by Tyson. Tyson was a class above all 3 of these guys and was the best heavyweight on the planet.
Holyfield wasn't using PEDs chronically at the time so he wouldn't have lasted. He was stopped by Bowe and hurt by big punchers like Bert Cooper and Foreman. Lewis was glass and Bowe would've been destroyed by Tyson's body assault, if he fought Tyson that is. I'm pretty sure that they actually agreed not to fight each other because they were from the same area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
OK, I'll use ESPN, who have Tyson at number 50 p4p. Or Bert Sugar, who had Tyson at 15 on the all time heavies list, or the IB times, who didn't have him in their top ten, or Sports illustrated, who didn't have him in their top ten, or almost any respected sports journal that don't have him in their top ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
He only lives there in the wet dreams of a youth such as yourself.
Costa Rica's national coach cast his vote into FIFA's world player of the year a decade or so ago, and voted for Paolo Wanchope. The lone voice of a mad man in the wilderness does not a fact make.
You still avoid stating where you have Mike in your overall ratings.
Your appeal to authority bullshit is exactly that ... BULLSHIT
I don't give a rats ass about Bert Sugar and his ramblings. Nor do I care about any Ring magazine list or any list from anyone because its all purely SUBJECTIVE
Everyone has biases, opinions, different criteria, beliefs etc. Each on one these lists DIFFER from another so your at straws by citing them.
The fact that you keep bringing these garbage lists up is incredibly foolish and childish.
I've exposed every single one of your posts and the inaccuracies and falsehoods that comprise their content.
Mike Tyson on all time lists can be rated for a few different things. Some say its down to career achievements but then why would Foreman be rated higher? He only made 2 successful defences. If its impact on the sport then only Ali rates higher and Mikes impact was all positive until he ran in to King, he was spokesperson for the FBI, the New York police dept, he had his own computer game, he advertised pepsi etc whereas Ali gained his by refusing to be drafted to Vietnam.
If its on an actual who beats who then no way could you have the likes of Marciano who was getting dropped by old light heavies or Frazier, Norton, Holmes and probably a fair few more ahead of Mike. Mike gets rated down because its not cool to have him high or you just look like you know nothing about boxing because "Mike Tyson was just a bully brawler with no technique" which is the usual crap spouted by wannabe experts.;)
Excellent postQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
These so called "experts" and "pundits" will just claim that he was a bully who would intimidate people and when that failed he collapsed and lost. Complete CRAP.
Tyson was groomed to be the greatest heavyweight champion ever. D'Amato told him everything he knew in the sport and he sucked it all up like a sponge. His socio-economic impact alone puts him in the top 10. Only Ali ever had the same kind of impact he had on a global scale.
And if we evaluate him as a fighter then there is no one in the history of heavyweight boxing who had the same combination of power, speed, punch resistance, and skill. NOBODY. Take a list of the commonly accepted top 10 heavyweights and you'll see that Tyson stands out alone as the one boxer who had top tier power, speed, skill, and punch resistance.
Head to head he is a freak. I'd only favor a few fighters in history to last with him.
Ah yes. Speaking of falsehoods, where is the evidence of Mike's soup hangover?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
And where do you rank Tyson, for the fourth or fifth time.
A diet of nothing but soup and salad once a day in an attempt to get down to fighting weight and training only in front of the media is a recipe for disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenAh yes. Speaking of falsehoods, where is the evidence of Mike's soup hangover?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
And where do you rank Tyson, for the fourth or fifth time.
The way he was fighting it looked like he just expected to win by showing up. He was practically hungover.
Tyson is in the top 7 IMO ... can't put him near the very top because of how his career unfolded
Make a top ten list and be honest about who Mike actually couldnt really beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenAh yes. Speaking of falsehoods, where is the evidence of Mike's soup hangover?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
And where do you rank Tyson, for the fourth or fifth time.
Ok, Lewis and Holyfield have wins over Mike but Mike also has a win over Holmes who was at a similar stage of his career as Mike was when he lost to Lewis and Holyfield. Just like when Mike fought Holmes, that wasnt the best version of Holmes and neither the steroid cheat Holyfield or Lewis fought the best version of Mike and neither came close to obliterating Mike the way Mike did to Larry. Holyfield in his prime struggled with an older version of Holmes.
By the time Holyfield fought Mike, Mike had an enforced 4 year absence and was a shell of the fighter he once was. He showed very little of the defensive skills, footwork or combinations that made him because he didnt have a trainer worth shit around him that wasnt just a yes man. When he fought Lewis hed had yet another enforced absence and was now just a name. As soon as King got Tyson he had no ambition for the actual fighting part of boxing.
The period Mike had when he was training right he did enough to warrant being n the top ten, certainly as much as Marciano did and more than Foreman. If Mike had died right after the Spinks fight the would be no revisionist history.
People dont rate Jones jrs career on what happened after Ruiz, or rather they choose to ignore it. I mever rated him that highly but in the ninties was Jones decade. Why does Mike get hammered for the shitty effort he put up after the Eighties?
People are judged on their career. Just because Tyson had a period after what people consider his prime where he underachieved, that does not mean he should be given credit for what could theoretically have happened. He was not an old man when he finished fighting, he was not wracked and ruined by serious injuries. At his height he was a fighting machine who lit up boxing but he could be beaten and people who on the one hand will acknowledge that Klitschko opponents are often already beaten men before entering the ring, frozen by fear like rabbits in headlights, refuse to see the same tell tale symptoms in many of Iron Mike's victims.
No, just give him credit for what he did acheive up to and including Spinks which is more impressive than what Marciano achieved. Tyson fought and beat the top ten heavies of his era, there was no ther challengers for him. If he hadnt declined so rapidly Kevin Rooney said his management team were actually thinking of retiring Mike early and bringing him back after a few years when some credible challenggers had come through. If Mike had been more disciplined and not been so easily swayed by King, he may have become the greatest ever at heavy, coming back to ruin Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, all who were getting beat, dropped or hurt every other fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Prior to Douglas Mike never looked beatable. No one could ever had him in trouble. Sure Tillis took a couple of rounds away from him and Tucker seemed to catch his attention with an uppercut once but that was it.
Never cut, bruised, hurt, or in danger of falling behind in the scorecards. The only criticism that is presented is that he didn't KO everybody. No one can KO everybody.
Foreman may have only made 2 defences , but was beaten by Clay and all timeQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
great , Tyson lost to Douglas
After he achieved more than Foreman and Marciano.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlForeman may have only made 2 defences , but was beaten by Clay and all timeQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
great , Tyson lost to Douglas
Yes he lost to Douglas but only after he had proved beyond any doubt he was the best fighter in the world and had some experts saying he was going to be on a par with Ali as the greatest. Why dyou think the Douglas fight is the biggest shock upset ever in boxing? Its because Mike was thought of as unbeatable.
Tyson fought in an era of pups , he lost every time a guy fought back.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossAfter he achieved more than Foreman and Marciano.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlForeman may have only made 2 defences , but was beaten by Clay and all timeQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
great , Tyson lost to Douglas
Yes he lost to Douglas but only after he had proved beyond any doubt he was the best fighter in the world and had some experts saying he was going to be on a par with Ali as the greatest. Why dyou think the Douglas fight is the biggest shock upset ever in boxing? Its because Mike was thought of as unbeatable.
So did Ali, so did Foreman, so did Frazier, so did Norton, Bowe, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis etc and what did Marciano do other than retire undefeated?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlTyson fought in an era of pups , he lost every time a guy fought back.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossAfter he achieved more than Foreman and Marciano.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlForeman may have only made 2 defences , but was beaten by Clay and all timeQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
great , Tyson lost to Douglas
Yes he lost to Douglas but only after he had proved beyond any doubt he was the best fighter in the world and had some experts saying he was going to be on a par with Ali as the greatest. Why dyou think the Douglas fight is the biggest shock upset ever in boxing? Its because Mike was thought of as unbeatable.
Give it up. Mike had issues but while they were reigned in he did more than enough to deserve to be highly appreciated.
If he was to come along now, or rather another, clean up the division by taking on all the contenders like Arreola and Adamek, then unified the titles by beating Vitali then Wlad and wiped the floor with Haye, how happy would we be as fans that there is just one title holder and someone who is undoubtably the best fighter in the world?
Sir, that Tyson was always there and still is.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat was the old Tyson, we are talking prime Tyson. The one that would ruin the Klit brothers and wipe out Haye and force Audley to immediately retire our of fright.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedBottom line, Tyson was convicted of rape and committed the worst foul I ever saw in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Otley
Tyson was a great fighter but I'm not missing him, at all.
TBH I don't think there are too many heavyweights who could have beaten Tyson in his prime.....even the other GREATS would have found it tough.....Tyson had issues with taller fighters....fighters that could take the pressure and come back for more.....I think Tyson would always have trouble fighting a Buster Douglas type boxer....also a Holyfeld type fighter who would have soaked it up and fought back with intensity........food for thought!!!!
job Bicuit (I don't know)!!!
eh eh!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenWho was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossTucker wasn't rated highly?Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenI, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenTyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Tyson destroyed mediocrity.
Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.
Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.
He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....
In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.
If you re-read the post, I was referring to Douglas v Tucker, not the shape Douglas was in against Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenWho was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossTucker wasn't rated highly?Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenI, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenTyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Tyson destroyed mediocrity.
Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.
Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.
He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....
In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.
Yes Douglas was a disgrace...he was unmotivated....due to knowing he was an overnight millionaire (around $25 million he was paid I think)......the dog had his day against Tyson and did very well thank you. Douglas laid down like a cheap Las Vegas tart and got paidQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenWho was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossTucker wasn't rated highly?Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenI, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenTyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Tyson destroyed mediocrity.
Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.
Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.
He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....
In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.
job biscuit (u get the message)!!!
eh eh!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenIf you re-read the post, I was referring to Douglas v Tucker, not the shape Douglas was in against Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenWho was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossTucker wasn't rated highly?Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenI, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenTyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Tyson destroyed mediocrity.
Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.
Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.
He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....
In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.
You're right..... my bad.
:embarassed:
Apparently the "Tyson" Douglas was pretty much the exception and not the rule.
He could've had a much better career than he had, if his laziness hadn't gotten in the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenHe gave a faded, 36 year old Holmes problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWilliams may have been stopped by Weaver but Williams gave Holmes a lot of trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenYeah, Williams was a monster during the five minutes he lasted against Weaver before he was stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Tyson didn't lose rounds against tomato cans, because they rarely lasted one. There's a reason why his team kept him away from Holyfield.
Tyson would have destroyed Holyfield had they fought when Tyson beat Williams, he was on a different level to most fighters in history.
Tyson was on a different level? As demonstrated by what? Knocking out faded greats and tomato cans? Didn't Douglas show the world he was overrated?
Holyfield fought at 212lbs in 1989, 3lbs lighter than when he knocked out Mike in 1996.
I'll save you the troble of posting the stock response:-
1. If Cus hadn't died
2. Tyson didn't train for Douglas
3. If Rooney was still training him.
4. Douglas had a long count
Pick one, or come up with a totally new theory on why Tyson was the greatest in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
Mike Tyson - drugged into mediocrity
Mike Tyson was one of the most exciting heavyweight boxers of all time. He had ripped apart the best that boxing had to offer.
Then in 1990 he fought an unimpressive contender called Buster Douglas.
When he stepped into the ring against Douglas it was as an unbeaten and unbeatable champion. About seven (from memory) rounds into the fight he was laid flat on his back for the count. I watched the fight in astonishment. It was plain to see that Tyson was lethargic. I thought at the time that he was just badly out of condition.
From that moment on Tyson was a tortured soul. He was in and out of court and jail on a regular basis, and lost fights to people whom he would have wiped the floor with just a few years earlier.
I read today that when he stepped into the ring in 1990 Tyson was on a chemical cocktail of Lithium, Zoloft, Seroquel, Lamitcal and other psychotropic drugs. On that night Tyson was too zonked out to stand, let alone think or fight clearly
I had often wondered what happened to turn Mike Tyson from an unbeatable champion to an easy-beat, has-been overnight. I should have realised that it was the psychs.
Philip Barton
It's always amazing to me how quick people are to dismiss Buster Douglas' superhuman effort on the night the stars aligned just right and he beat Mike Tyson. "Tyson was shot", "Tyson was under-trained", "Tyson was over-confident (true)", "Tyson was on drugs", etc, etc, etc, etc.
I've watched the fight countless times. How about giving Buster Douglas some credit, if only for that one fateful night (for Tyson). Douglas hadn't done anything like that before Tyson.... and he never did anything like that after Tyson. But on that night? Douglas fought a perfect fight.
People forget... Douglas had the size and reach. All he needed was the skill, the conditioning, and the balls. That night he had all three. People talk as if Tyson was sleepwalking through the fight. He wasn't. True.... he was grossly over-confident, an understandable consequence of being undefeated and viewed as totally indestructible. Who the f___ was Buster Douglas but some other bum on Tyson's road to boxing royalty?
Douglas had the perfect mindset and "cojones" for Tyson that night. He refused to be bullied. Instead, he pushed Mike around, with his bigger body. He boxed... he danced... he tied Tyson up when he had to. He traded with Mike when he had to.
The Douglas of that night would've destroyed Wladimir Klitschko on any given night.
Eventually, you play with fire long enough... you get burned. Tyson finally caught him with an uppercut from hell. Aided by a generous count and the end of the round, Douglas survived. It wasn't meant to be Tyson's night.
So to each his own. Destroyed Tyson fans will continue to believe it was voodoo. In some dark corner some hater was sticking pins into a Tyson doll, weakening him for the kill by the bum Douglas. I prefer to give Douglas all the credit in the world for scoring what must still be the most humoungous upset in the history of all of sport. Unfortunately, this all went to Douglas' head and he went back to his lazy, overeating ways. He got dispatched easily by Holyfield, and that was that. More fuel for the destroyed Tyson fans to cling to the voodoo theory.
Let's call things for what they are. Douglas had one career day... and then called it a career. It was a fierce, competitive, action-packed, fingernail-biting fight. And the better man that night won.
That is some regimen, if its true.Quote:
Originally Posted by floydbingoQuote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenHe gave a faded, 36 year old Holmes problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWilliams may have been stopped by Weaver but Williams gave Holmes a lot of trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobthepenYeah, Williams was a monster during the five minutes he lasted against Weaver before he was stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Tyson didn't lose rounds against tomato cans, because they rarely lasted one. There's a reason why his team kept him away from Holyfield.
Tyson would have destroyed Holyfield had they fought when Tyson beat Williams, he was on a different level to most fighters in history.
Tyson was on a different level? As demonstrated by what? Knocking out faded greats and tomato cans? Didn't Douglas show the world he was overrated?
Holyfield fought at 212lbs in 1989, 3lbs lighter than when he knocked out Mike in 1996.
I'll save you the troble of posting the stock response:-
1. If Cus hadn't died
2. Tyson didn't train for Douglas
3. If Rooney was still training him.
4. Douglas had a long count
Pick one, or come up with a totally new theory on why Tyson was the greatest in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
Mike Tyson - drugged into mediocrity
Mike Tyson was one of the most exciting heavyweight boxers of all time. He had ripped apart the best that boxing had to offer.
Then in 1990 he fought an unimpressive contender called Buster Douglas.
When he stepped into the ring against Douglas it was as an unbeaten and unbeatable champion. About seven (from memory) rounds into the fight he was laid flat on his back for the count. I watched the fight in astonishment. It was plain to see that Tyson was lethargic. I thought at the time that he was just badly out of condition.
From that moment on Tyson was a tortured soul. He was in and out of court and jail on a regular basis, and lost fights to people whom he would have wiped the floor with just a few years earlier.
I read today that when he stepped into the ring in 1990 Tyson was on a chemical cocktail of Lithium, Zoloft, Seroquel, Lamitcal and other psychotropic drugs. On that night Tyson was too zonked out to stand, let alone think or fight clearly
I had often wondered what happened to turn Mike Tyson from an unbeatable champion to an easy-beat, has-been overnight. I should have realised that it was the psychs.
Philip Barton
Two SSRIs (duplicate therapy), an anti epileptic/mood stabilizer, and a potent bipolar agent???
I know he was on Zoloft for depression later on in his career but I doubt he was taking all of those drugs concurrently .... dangerous combination especially when you have two SSRI's (Seroquel and Zoloft) being used together ... Its probably a possibility that he's been treated with these agents at least one point in his career ... Givens pretty much said he was bipolar so I'm guessing he was being treated as early as then ...
All of the credit in the world for Douglas for beating that version of TysonQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
But Mike at his best would stomp that Douglas ... besides the crash soup diet, the lack of training, the partying, lack of mental preparation and focus, he was even being knocked down by freaking Greg Page in sparring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO73SIt42lY
Trevor Berbick even gave him trouble in sparring in preparation for Douglas. Trevor Berbick who was knocked out thrice by Tyson with one punch.
The fighter that knocked down Tyson was Greg Page from memory. It was from a quick right hand over Tyson’s jab. Berbick who was quite mad and ended up being killed in Jamaica.
Yeah, it was Page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
And Tyson took sparring very seriously under Rooney and Cus ... and I'm sure he was embarrassed and pissed after being knocked down by the likes of Greg Page, even if they weren't the ones training him.
Tyson still didn't get his act together and ended up losing to Douglas ... he probably didn't have enough time by then anyway.
No time at all, he was in poor condition against Bruno but pulled that one out too. His life was very chaotic.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombYeah, it was Page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
And Tyson took sparring very seriously under Rooney and Cus ... and I'm sure he was embarrassed and pissed after being knocked down by the likes of Greg Page, even if they weren't the ones training him.
Tyson still didn't get his act together and ended up losing to Douglas ... he probably didn't have enough time by then anyway.