I miss Tyson

[Bobthepen]

Like it or not Tyson was wiping out opponents who could just about win rounds against him and people were counting significant punches landing on Tyson. Holmes did not give Tyson any problems he was destroyed, this Holmes have Holyfield hell and beat the undefeated Mercer. The point I am making is that Tyson destroyed his opponents with ease and did not struggle with them as certain champions have been. These fighters were good fighters too. Tyson’s peak was way too short and only he is to blame for that.

Tyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.

Tyson destroyed mediocrity.


Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.

Tyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.

I, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.

Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.

Tucker wasn't rated highly?

He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....

Who was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.

That was the best we saw of Douglas outside the Tyson fight. He also looked good against McCall as well.

At 228 lbs Douglas was actually in supreme shape for that fight and looked motivated. You would know that if you actually watched it.

Such good shape he turned up against Tyson 8lbs lighter.

[Bobthepen]

These were the only two opponents Tyson had that were ever even competitive ... most of his victims had two choices ... to either be KOed spectacularly and earn a spot on Tyson's legendary KO highlight reel .... or to hold on and try and survive the entire fight.

Or knock him out like Douglas. Or Holyfield. Or Lewis. Or Williams. Or McBride.

Please learn the circumstances surrounding those losses.

Holyfield and Lewis who are considered ATGs have also been KOed. Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, George Foreman, Joe Frazier and other ATGs have all been KOed.

Well, the circumstances with Holyfield and Douglas are he got beaten by a better man. I was just yanking your chain with the others.

[TysonBomb]

Douglas was almost KOed despite putting in the best performance of his career and Tyson who literally just showed up to fight, hungover.

Holyfield intentionally headbutted his way to two "victories" over Tyson.

Douglas was actually 3 pounds HEAVIER for the Tyson fight, genius.

Not only do you prove you haven't watched half of these fights, you've also proven your incompetence at researching what happened. You probably mistook Tyson's weight for Douglas's. Tyson was at 220 lbs NOT Douglas, who was at 231.

[Bobthepen]

Douglas was almost KOed despite putting in the best performance of his career and Tyson who literally just showed up to fight, hungover.

Holyfield intentionally headbutted his way to two "victories" over Tyson.

Douglas was actually 3 pounds HEAVIER for the Tyson fight, genius.

Not only do you prove you haven't watched half of these fights, you've also proven your incompetence at researching what happened. You probably mistook Tyson's weight for Douglas's. Tyson was at 220 lbs NOT Douglas, who was at 231.

You're right about Douglas. My mistake.

Your problem, young fella, is that you view Tyson's career through posterity. You have already stated he was before your time, and you probably learned all you know about him through youtube highlight footage.
I, however, remember watching many of his fights live back in the day, and as such I read newspapers and boxing magazines and garnered a wealth of background information from the experts of the day about the state of the division and their opinions of Tyson.
I remember when Douglas beat him, because I was in Los Angeles at the time and watched the fight. The most interesting thing about that fight is the excuses. I've read Tyson was hung over, was suffering an allergic reaction to penicillin after contracting VD in a Tokyo whorehouse, to was given sedatives by the Yakuza because of the betting odds.
The strangest thing about these excuses is that they were first heard more than a decade after the fight. Nobody was making those excuses at the time.

[TysonBomb]

What the hell are you talking about?

Don King tried to get the fight overturned right away, arguing that the ref gave Douglas a long count.

Tyson was getting beat up by the likes of Trevor Berbick before the fight in sparring:

Back In Action - Orlando Sentinel

Tyson's diet of nothing but soup and salad

Private Training - Orlando Sentinel

All of this stuff was reported the time period surrounding the fight, not "decades later."

Do you really think that Buster Douglas at his best, which was this fight, could really beat Mike Tyson at his best? Tyson goofed and embarrassed himself. Yeah he lost but the fact remains that it wasn't the best Tyson we saw that night ... he looked completely lethargic from the opening bell and was getting hit with punches that he would never get hit with. He wasn't moving his head and his combinations were non existent. He got in one uppercut to save himself, which was a hell of a punch, and Douglas got up and was saved by the bell.

[swboxer81]

Everyone misses that era of Heavy weight boxing! Tyson was an animal and would've loved to see him in his prime in UFC

[TysonBomb]

Everyone misses that era of Heavy weight boxing! Tyson was an animal and would've loved to see him in his prime in UFC

Tyson + UFC gloves = banning of UFC and MMA

[swboxer81]

Everyone misses that era of Heavy weight boxing! Tyson was an animal and would've loved to see him in his prime in UFC

Tyson + UFC gloves = banning of UFC and MMA

lol!! Very true man

[brocktonblockbust]

Iron Mike was a weird person.

[Bobthepen]

What the hell are you talking about?

Don King tried to get the fight overturned right away, arguing that the ref gave Douglas a long count.

Tyson was getting beat up by the likes of Trevor Berbick before the fight in sparring:

Back In Action - Orlando Sentinel

Tyson's diet of nothing but soup and salad

Private Training - Orlando Sentinel

All of this stuff was reported the time period surrounding the fight, not "decades later."

Do you really think that Buster Douglas at his best, which was this fight, could really beat Mike Tyson at his best? Tyson goofed and embarrassed himself. Yeah he lost but the fact remains that it wasn't the best Tyson we saw that night ... he looked completely lethargic from the opening bell and was getting hit with punches that he would never get hit with. He wasn't moving his head and his combinations were non existent. He got in one uppercut to save himself, which was a hell of a punch, and Douglas got up and was saved by the bell.

Soup doesn't give you a hangover. Nor does salad. Posting links to Tyson having early nights, training in the small hours, and sparring hardly refutes theories he wasn't in shape.

Post proof of the hangover you claim Tyson was suffering from.

For what it is worth, I accept that Tyson wasn't at his best, and Douglas fought the fight of his life. For this reason I rate Tyson higher than Douglas, but all of this is beside the point.

My point is that Tyson, like Wlad, ruled a weak era. He never looked good against a fighter with a hard jab and decent footwork (Holmes was rusty as hell, and Bruno had some success with the jab but should have doubled it up and followed through instead of stepping back).
The Tyson era was followed by three standouts rising from the ashes of the division. Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe. These three were a cut above anybody Tyson beat, and all three possessed the jab and ability to beat Mike at any stage of his career.
Styles make fights, and they had Tyson's number like Douglas. Were I to list the best fighters Tyson fought at the time he fought them and I would list Holyfield, Douglas and Lewis. I accept he was shot against Lewis.

Where do you rank a prime, GTI Tyson with a go faster stripe in the pantheon of greats?

[TysonBomb]

Tyson's era was full of Ali wannabees who all tried to jab him. Pinklon Thomas had an excellent jab, so did Tony Tucker and even at an advanced age, Holmes had an excellent jab on par with anyone in the division.

Frank Bruno, whom you mentioned had a very potent jab. But he's weak when he fights Tyson but a great fighter when he nearly pounds Lewis out of consciousness. Amazing logic. Half of Lewis's resume is full of Tyson leftovers yet Lewis has a great resume.

Tyson's era was better than the current era and slightly less talented than the 90s overall. In other words, it was actually a good era and he cleaned it out. The previous era dominated by Larry Holmes was even worst and the first time he fought a real elite level fighter in Mike Tyson, he was embarrassed and got his clock cleaned.

You have nothing to say. Tyson would demolish this era overnight and reign for over a decade. Tyson would've dominated the 90s even after the loss to Douglas if he hand't gone to prison. Glass jaw Lewis who couldn't even handle Tyson's sparring partner would've been steamrolled and broken to bits. Holyfield would've been brutally KOed and Bowe, if he fought Mike, would've also been KOed. Tyson is the elite of the elite and would be able to rule any era under the right guidance and with the right discipline and focus. The 90s weren't really dominated by a single fighter but that era would have if Tyson hadn't gone to prison.

[Master]

Bob you make some valid points I was worried that Tyson was imploding with the problems with Robin Givens during the Spinks and Bruno fights. Tyson was burning out and losing control. By the time Lennox, Bowe and Holyfield came he would probably have fought life and death with them but loses. No way would he have beaten them one after the other. My point is a peak Tyson with Rooney and stable lifestyle he could have lasted longer.

The way I see it he would have beaten Holyfield the first time they were due to fight in an epic war but probably lost the return and the one after that. If he did manage to beat Holyfield he would have definitely struggled with Bowe and Lewis. Saying all that Tyson could punch and a right cross against Lewis and a left hook to Bowe may have finished both early.

[Bobthepen]

Tyson's era was full of Ali wannabees who all tried to jab him. Pinklon Thomas had an excellent jab, so did Tony Tucker and even at an advanced age, Holmes had an excellent jab on par with anyone in the division.

Frank Bruno, whom you mentioned had a very potent jab. But he's weak when he fights Tyson but a great fighter when he nearly pounds Lewis out of consciousness. Amazing logic. Half of Lewis's resume is full of Tyson leftovers yet Lewis has a great resume.

Tyson's era was better than the current era and slightly less talented than the 90s overall. In other words, it was actually a good era and he cleaned it out. The previous era dominated by Larry Holmes was even worst and the first time he fought a real elite level fighter in Mike Tyson, he was embarrassed and got his clock cleaned.

You have nothing to say. Tyson would demolish this era overnight and reign for over a decade. Tyson would've dominated the 90s even after the loss to Douglas if he hand't gone to prison. Glass jaw Lewis who couldn't even handle Tyson's sparring partner would've been steamrolled and broken to bits. Holyfield would've been brutally KOed and Bowe, if he fought Mike, would've also been KOed. Tyson is the elite of the elite and would be able to rule any era under the right guidance and with the right discipline and focus. The 90s weren't really dominated by a single fighter but that era would have if Tyson hadn't gone to prison.

So where do you rank Tyson in the all time lists? And why is it that nobody in the sane world agrees with you?
Ring magazine compiled a list of the best fighters of the last 80 years, based on decades of boxing knowledge from their scribes. Lewis was at number 53, Evander Holyfield was at 22. Where was Tyson? number one, two perhaps? Nope at 72. Guess them folks at Ring are as clueless as I am.

Tucker had an excellent jab? Tucker was always chided for the fact he had a lazy jab for a big man, and dropped his left after throwing it.

Any other revisions of history to throw in there? Still waiting for the evidence of Mike's hangover...

[TysonBomb]

You're trying to rewrite history

Tucker had a good jab and if he isn't good enough for you then what about Tyrell Biggs? He had an excellent jab as well and literally tried to pull an Ali on Tyson. Lewis also had a LAZY jab that he would leave out there but I can guarantee you'd call it an excellent jab.

Everyone tried to jab Tyson but it failed. Being tall didn't help either so I'll already put aside that argument. The only punch that Tyson was susceptible to was the uppercut. He was a defensive wizard among heavyweights.

If you are resulting to using Ring magazine as an authority then there is nothing left for you to bring up. Ring magazine is a joke and so are all of these subjective lists compiled by these so called "pundits." You've already exposed that you actually don't know anything and you've hardly even watched any of Tysons fights.

He would eat Lewis alive, spark Holyfield and pound Bowe if these fights ever happened in the early 90s. Holyfield is "great" because he beat Bowe and Bowe is "great" because he beat Holyfield. Lewis is "great" because he fought Tyson left overs and was knocked unconscious in his prime ... TWICE.

Tyson beat a prime Razor Ruddock twice who was more dangerous than anyone Bowe or Holyfield fought to that point. Both Holyfield and Bowe DUCKED Ruddock and took on lesser opponents ... Holyfield took on a fat old Foreman who didn't deserve a shot and Bowe fought another bum in the long list of bums that make up his record. Lewis got to Ruddock after he had been destroyed by Tyson. Tyson was a class above all 3 of these guys and was the best heavyweight on the planet.

[TysonBomb]

Bob you make some valid points I was worried that Tyson was imploding with the problems with Robin Givens during the Spinks and Bruno fights. Tyson was burning out and losing control. By the time Lennox, Bowe and Holyfield came he would probably have fought life and death with them but loses. No way would he have beaten them one after the other. My point is a peak Tyson with Rooney and stable lifestyle he could have lasted longer.

The way I see it he would have beaten Holyfield the first time they were due to fight in an epic war but probably lost the return and the one after that. If he did manage to beat Holyfield he would have definitely struggled with Bowe and Lewis. Saying all that Tyson could punch and a right cross against Lewis and a left hook to Bowe may have finished both early.

Holyfield wasn't using PEDs chronically at the time so he wouldn't have lasted. He was stopped by Bowe and hurt by big punchers like Bert Cooper and Foreman. Lewis was glass and Bowe would've been destroyed by Tyson's body assault, if he fought Tyson that is. I'm pretty sure that they actually agreed not to fight each other because they were from the same area.