Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I'd take Leonard against Valuev simply because he is so very much better at boxing. I don't think Valuev could lay a glove on him.
If Eric cares to start naming fighters that moved down in weight with great success I'll name 10 for every 1 he named that moved up in weight with great success
Sasquatch would have 36 minutes in which to simply swing those long tree trunks of his, and land anywhere on Leonard. Head, body, arms, whatever.
Put them in a small ring, and Leonard stands little to no chance.
So not only are we handicapping Leonard on size we are handicapping him with a small ring too? Any other handicaps the big guy needs?
Ok.... put them on a football field for all I care. For Leonard to win, he has to land something. To land something, he has to come within reach of Sasquatch. Unless Leonard's allowed to throw stuff, which I guess he wouldn't be. Point is..... Valuev would win..... thereby "proving" eric's "brilliant" point that bigger boxers are the better boxers.
Valuev is slow as dirt. Move left, when Valuev adjusts move right. Now he can't punch. Get in and get out. His slow feet and slow punches would give Leonard time. Rinse and repeat.
Sort of like a hummingbird and a grizzly? Like that you mean?
What's the point here?
Remove Sasquatch is he's too slow for you, and substitute any other mediocre heavyweight against Leonard.
Leonard will still be 20 times the boxer the heavyweight is, but will lose..... thus appearing to prove Eric's asinine point about bigger boxers being better boxers.
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
You guys are still arguing this point? Obviously bigger fighters would beat smaller fighters (to an extent anyways). That's why there are weight classes.
It's like in basketball. If you are semi athletic and are at least 7 feet tall you will probably get into the NBA even though some guy who is 5 feet tall is way more skilled.
In boxing, that's why we have p4p lists. Obviously chocolatito wouldn't beat Joshua even though he is way more skilled. That's why chocolatito is p4p ranked higher. He is more skilled. That's how boxing has worked for over 100 years. We just accept it. That is also why HWs tend to become more popular because they really end up being the fighters that could beat anybody else in the world because of their size.
With all that said, I enjoy watching smaller weights a lot more than bigger ones. IMO boxing is best from about lightweight to middleweight.
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
You guys are still arguing this point? Obviously bigger fighters would beat smaller fighters (to an extent anyways). That's why there are weight classes.
It's like in basketball. If you are semi athletic and are at least 7 feet tall you will probably get into the NBA even though some guy who is 5 feet tall is way more skilled.
In boxing, that's why we have p4p lists. Obviously chocolatito wouldn't beat Joshua even though he is way more skilled. That's why chocolatito is p4p ranked higher. He is more skilled. That's how boxing has worked for over 100 years. We just accept it. That is also why HWs tend to become more popular because they really end up being the fighters that could beat anybody else in the world because of their size.
With all that said, I enjoy watching smaller weights a lot more than bigger ones. IMO boxing is best from about lightweight to middleweight.
I'm not the one who doesn't grasp the p4p concept. ;) ;)
But maybe your use of Chocolatito with Joshua will work better at illustrating the point than my use of Leonard vs. Valuev. ;)
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Just a fact that in general bigger boxers would beat smaller boxers, no argument
Doesn't take away from the entertainment of the smaller weights
Think there's a lot of confusion between who is the best lb4lb and who is the best :)
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'm not the one who doesn't grasp the p4p concept. ;) ;)
But maybe your use of Chocolatito with Joshua will work better at illustrating the point than my use of Leonard vs. Valuev. ;)
I don't think you grasp the difference between the best lb4lb and the best :)
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Just a fact that in general bigger boxers would beat smaller boxers, no argument
I'm a masochist by nature and will just continue hammering away.
Try to follow me here:
You said, and I quote, "the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers"
I tried to explain that just because a bigger boxer would beat a smaller boxer in the ring, it doesn't mean he's the better boxer.
Loads of people tried to help out with that, giving you examples of how that works in real life. You know... the p4p concept.
You countered with confounding analogies about cricket, etc.
I'll try one more time, because I must love pain.
Mythical matchup between Chocolatito and Deontay Wilder.
Chocolatito is several times the boxer Deontay Wilder is. Agree? Please say yes, even if just to humor me.
Chocolatito also weighs about 115 pounds.
Deontay is a big and powerful heavyweight, but an amateurish boxer.
Put them in the ring together. Who wins? Please say Deontay.
Ok, let's go back to your quote. Mind you, I'm exhibiting a lot of patience here.
"The best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers."
Deontay is much bigger than Chocolatito.
Does that make him a better boxer? Please say no, and avoid further embarrassment.
So p4p, Chocolatito is better than Deontay.
In the ring, at their actual sizes, Deontay wins 100 times out of a 100.
Does any of this make a dent in there?
If not, it's probably my fault. I'm not really good at simplifying things below a certain level.
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
you guys seem to be arguing about a subject whilst completely agreeing with each other, it is pretty odd and interesting to read :S
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
The assertion "the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers", is a ridiculously false, incorrect statement.
I fail to see how we're agreeing with each other.
I'm just trying to perform a public service here.
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
The assertion "the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers", is a ridiculously false, incorrect statement.
I fail to see how we're agreeing with each other.
I'm just trying to perform a public service here.
you're saying the exact same thing though.. wilder beats chocolatito because he is bigger, I think it is pretty clear that that is what erics eric s or whatever has been saying from the start..Problem seems to be in the wording of the posts. He seems to be using the word boxer as a description of someone who takes part in the sport of boxing and you seem to be using boxer as a class of one of these sportsmen, boxer is someone skilled jabbing moving so on and on.. anyway you guys really are agreeing with each other. I will post no more about it and read on ! :cool:
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
palmerq
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
The assertion "the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers", is a ridiculously false, incorrect statement.
I fail to see how we're agreeing with each other.
I'm just trying to perform a public service here.
you're saying the exact same thing though.. wilder beats chocolatito because he is bigger, I think it is pretty clear that that is what erics eric s or whatever has been saying from the start..Problem seems to be in the wording of the posts. He seems to be using the word boxer as a description of someone who takes part in the sport of boxing and you seem to be using boxer as a class of one of these sportsmen, boxer is someone skilled jabbing moving so on and on.. anyway you guys really are agreeing with each other. I will post no more about it and read on ! :cool:
I'm saying Deontay would beat Chocolatito to a pulp, but not because he's a better a boxer, but only because he's so much bigger.
Eric says that because Deontay is bigger, he's the better boxer.
We're certainly not saying the same thing.
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
i am actually
In football the most skilful players are not always the best players
In boxing the most skilful boxers are not always the best
If you can beat another competitor at any sport consistently then you are better than them at that sport
Simples :)
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
I would like to archive the thread but it just keeps on going.
Re: Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?
It's the most interesting thread at the minute tho innit
