Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Obviously Jorge Solis was unheard fighter until he ran into Pac.
I agree, Solis was unknown in every sense of the word.
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Pac was a nobody until he ran into champs like Lebwaba and Barrera.
I disagree here Pac WASN'T a nobody. The fact that he was in the smaller weight classes and we all know they don't get much attention is one thing. But to say he was a nobody until he faced Ledwaba or MAB is IMO wrong. Pac was a former Flyweight Champ. he was struggling to make weight as a Flyweight and paid the price there. I wouldn't call him a nobody, I would call him a former champ.
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
He defeated them both convincingly by KO.
I agree.
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Bigger and fully motivated Solis failed to do what Pac accomplished.
Bigger yes.
Fully motivated NO, take it from me I know/understand spanish Solis the figher tells his brother (I forget in which round) 'Man hes slapping the sh*t out of me' Solis the brother tells him 'It's OK, your gonna be OK it's nothing' Solis the fighter says 'Yeah! but hes slapping me around hard' Solis the brother tells him 'It's OK, just go out there and fight it's gonna be OK'..... Not fully motivated if you ask me.
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Pac defeated below 30s future hall of famers.
You forget to mention that he lost a fight to one of those Hall of Famers....
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
A prime DeLa Hoya would whoop PBF's butt.
Prime MAB & ERIK would beat PAC also. Erik already proved that.....
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Pac vs PBF match up is rediculous. There's no way that will happen.
I agree on this theres no way this fight will ever happen...
Not only due to weight issues but I really think PBF would not take the fight and thats me being as honest as I can be.....
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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
That is NOT how you rate p4p raking.
Thats right you gotta look at the career all around.
which include: boxing ability, power, defense, ring generalship, experience, quality of oppostion, chin, stamina, titles.
I'm impressed with your assessment.
I'm glad you see things the way I do,..
..not all, but most.
Erik Morales did beat Manny in their first bout. Erik was even toying with Manny in 12th round.
Erik's machismo kicked-in, switched to southpaw stand, and almost got himself KTFO ;D
If there was a 13th round, EM would've knocked out. It was a close fight.
Manny fought with big cut in his eyebrow.
But I kinda glad Manny lost that fight. If it hadn't for that fight, there would have not been 1 of the greatest trilogy in boxing history.
Cheerio...
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
Floyd convinced me off his claim with Baldomir. He may have been at the right place at the right time but the fact is Baldo was the lineal champ at 147.
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well by virtue of Manny fighting a relative unknown in Solis Floyd fighting Oscar,Floyd is easily P4P number 1 at the moment BUT if Manny fights JMM next, and wins,Manny easily takes it back imo. Especially if,hypothetically speaking,Manny beat JMM well in a rematch and Floyd beat Oscar i a rematch,I'd easily have Manny first.
As it stands though,Floyd easily and the prospects of a Manny JMM fight are slim at the moment.
I don't care who Pac beats, unless it's PBF. Short of that, the only thing that puts him at #1 is completely reworking himself so he (a) has balance and (b) has defense -- among other things. I don't understand how beating JMM would prove anything about Pac versus Floyd. Floyd is MUCH better than JMM.
I've said this numerous times: despite the fact that they fought their last fights four divisions apart, Pac and PBF came into their respective rings at almost exactly the same weights. Pac beat a nobody 130-pounder. PBF beat Oscar de law Hoya at Jr. Middleweight. There's no comparison. Moreover, given that they've weighed essentially the same amount, you don't have to hypothesize much to think about what it would look like if you put them in the ring together. And in that matchup, I honestly don't see Pac winning a single round. I see him getting KO'd well within 6.
Floyd IS the superior fighter but just by looking at that,then guys like Jerman Taylor should not be in the top 10 P4P because he is only in it for his wins BUT we look at competition too,not just skills. If its just skills,Shane Mosley is top 5.
And don't have such a short memory,I could just argue that a win over an old Oscar,is NOWHERE NEAR AS IMPRESSIVE AS THE demolition of an ATG in MAB,as the destruction and pounding of another legend as Erik Morales and the draw with the superb AND P4P JMM. Thats 3 P4Pers and 2 HOF,possibly atg.
And Floyd started at what,130? Manny started at 112. Hey,I'm not a huge Pacfan and I'm starting to like PBF more and more but I thin I'm in the middle,too many fans like 1 guy or the other too much. It obscures their vision,they become too biased.
like I said,Floyd is P4P number 1 right now but if Manny manages to fight JMM and beat him concisively,he'll be number 1 in my and mosts eyes. I'm not going to hold Manny's balance issues against him when he is wrecking world class opponents. And take into account he is improving too.
I'd favour Floyd at 130 if they were to fight but there is NO WAY he is stopping Manny. Manny would be the fastest,hardest hitting most determined fighter he would have ever fought. If Floyd tried to lay on the ropes v Manny,he would get absolutely annihilated. Floyd would be hot favourite but lets not make him out to be some demi god.
Fkiyd P4P number 1 easily right now for sure,but like I said,P4P number 1 can be hotly contested in a number of ways. And let's not forget what a win for B Hop or Winky would mean ;)
You can't be serious El Gamo. Beating Marquez would solidfy Pac's position as No 2 in the rankings at best, no way it puts him at number one.
In case you havn't noticed Pacman has lost, several times in his career. He's even been knocked out. As recently as 2005 he was comprehensively outboxed for 11 rounds and lucky to get a draw against Marquez. An old faded Erik Morales beat him decisively in their first encounter.
Pacquiao s a great fighter but he;s by no means certain of beating even the other guys in his division. I'd give Marquez, Soto, Barrera and even Guzman live chances of upsetting him.
I love watching Pacquiao fight but he really hasn't done all that much in the last couple years considering the praise he gets. He won fighter of the year for twice beating up on an old Morales which was no more of an achievement certainly than Floyd moving up and blowing out Arturo Gatti.
In order to even make this a debate you have to minimise all of Floyd's acomplishments and massively overinflate Manny's.
I've got a senaking suspiscion that Pacman is actually on the slide if anything. Personal problems and outside interests will all factor in and I wouldn't be at all suprised to see him dethroned within the next twelve months.
Most certainly though, he is not even close to being P4P no 1. ::**
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Obviously Jorge Solis was unheard fighter until he ran into Pac.
I agree, Solis was unknown in every sense of the word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Pac was a nobody until he ran into champs like Lebwaba and Barrera.
I disagree here Pac WASN'T a nobody. The fact that he was in the smaller weight classes and we all know they don't get much attention is one thing. But to say he was a nobody until he faced Ledwaba or MAB is IMO wrong. Pac was a former Flyweight Champ. he was struggling to make weight as a Flyweight and paid the price there. I wouldn't call him a nobody, I would call him a former champ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
He defeated them both convincingly by KO.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Bigger and fully motivated Solis failed to do what Pac accomplished.
Bigger yes.
Fully motivated NO, take it from me I know/understand spanish Solis the figher tells his brother (I forget in which round) 'Man hes slapping the sh*t out of me' Solis the brother tells him 'It's OK, your gonna be OK it's nothing' Solis the fighter says 'Yeah! but hes slapping me around hard' Solis the brother tells him 'It's OK, just go out there and fight it's gonna be OK'..... Not fully motivated if you ask me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Pac defeated below 30s future hall of famers.
You forget to mention that he lost a fight to one of those Hall of Famers....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
A prime DeLa Hoya would whoop PBF's butt.
Prime MAB & ERIK would beat PAC also. Erik already proved that.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Pac vs PBF match up is rediculous. There's no way that will happen.
I agree on this theres no way this fight will ever happen...
Not only due to weight issues but I really think PBF would not take the fight and thats me being as honest as I can be.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
That is NOT how you rate p4p raking.
Thats right you gotta look at the career all around.
which include: boxing ability, power, defense, ring generalship, experience, quality of oppostion, chin, stamina, titles.
I'm impressed with your assessment.
I'm glad you see things the way I do,..
..not all, but most.
Erik Morales did beat Manny in their first bout. Erik was even toying with Manny in 12th round.
Erik's machismo kicked-in, switched to southpaw stand, and almost got himself KTFO ;D
If there was a 13th round, EM would've knocked out. It was a close fight.
Manny fought with big cut in his eyebrow.
But I kinda glad Manny lost that fight. If it hadn't for that fight, there would have not been 1 of the greatest trilogy in boxing history.
Cheerio...
Thats what it's about debating our points and doing it the right way..... :)
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
I'm very conflicted about this now.
I previously voted Pac #1 on this list, based on quality of opposition and performance. I dislike PBF immensely - but I respect his boxing skill and natural ability. That being said, I'm still flabbergasted by the overwhelming support PBF is shown by many here.
I am simply at a loss when people state that Mayweather "beat the crap out of Oscar" or "embarrassed Oscar" or "made Oscar look stupid". I must be watching a completely different fight - every time I watch it, I still see a VERY close fight. I thought Mayweather did enough to win, but only just! People go on about how Oscar was missing with his flurries - which is true - but fail to mention that a LOT of PBF's potshots bounced harmlessly off of Oscar's gloves. We expected Oscar to miss a lot, since PBF's defense is outstanding, but Oscar's defense was awfully tight, too.
As much as I hate to, I vote PBF as the p4p #1 at the moment. But just barely! I still think a lot more should go into determining the p4p status than pure technical ability.
If boxing can be summed up in terms of technique, then the technical fighter will always win. But that's not true, as history has proven countless times. Sometimes, a "flawed" fighter whips the living crap out of the "technically superior" fighter.
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by bcollins
I'm very conflicted about this now.
I previously voted Pac #1 on this list, based on quality of opposition and performance. I dislike PBF immensely - but I respect his boxing skill and natural ability. That being said, I'm still flabbergasted by the overwhelming support PBF is shown by many here.
I am simply at a loss when people state that Mayweather "beat the crap out of Oscar" or "embarrassed Oscar" or "made Oscar look stupid". I must be watching a completely different fight - every time I watch it, I still see a VERY close fight. I thought Mayweather did enough to win, but only just! People go on about how Oscar was missing with his flurries - which is true - but fail to mention that a LOT of PBF's potshots bounced harmlessly off of Oscar's gloves. We expected Oscar to miss a lot, since PBF's defense is outstanding, but Oscar's defense was awfully tight, too.
As much as I hate to, I vote PBF as the p4p #1 at the moment. But just barely! I still think a lot more should go into determining the p4p status than pure technical ability.
If boxing can be summed up in terms of technique, then the technical fighter will always win. But that's not true, as history has proven countless times. Sometimes, a "flawed" fighter whips the living crap out of the "technically superior" fighter.
Brilliant!!!! specially the last paragraph.
from now on everytime i see the name bcollins, i will cc it and here is the start :coolclick: +113
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
Pac DEFO Floyd got outboxed by ODH and at the end of the day if the challenger wins shouldn't they of took the fight to the champion????
Did the so called "Pretty Boy" do this???
Answer: NO
No wonder Floyd was so relieved at the end.
OSCAR DE LA HOYA:LEGEND AND SORRY MATE FOR GETTING ROBBED
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by leftylee
Pac DEFO Floyd got outboxed by ODH and at the end of the day if the challenger wins shouldn't they of took the fight to the champion????
Did the so called "Pretty Boy" do this???
Answer: NO
No wonder Floyd was so relieved at the end.
OSCAR DE LA HOYA:LEGEND AND SORRY MATE FOR GETTING ROBBED
You lost me at "outboxed". Even the people who thought the fight was close or thought Oscar somehow won didn't see that.
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
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Originally Posted by bcollins
I'm very conflicted about this now.
I previously voted Pac #1 on this list, based on quality of opposition and performance. I dislike PBF immensely - but I respect his boxing skill and natural ability. That being said, I'm still flabbergasted by the overwhelming support PBF is shown by many here.
I am simply at a loss when people state that Mayweather "beat the crap out of Oscar" or "embarrassed Oscar" or "made Oscar look stupid". I must be watching a completely different fight - every time I watch it, I still see a VERY close fight. I thought Mayweather did enough to win, but only just! People go on about how Oscar was missing with his flurries - which is true - but fail to mention that a LOT of PBF's potshots bounced harmlessly off of Oscar's gloves. We expected Oscar to miss a lot, since PBF's defense is outstanding, but Oscar's defense was awfully tight, too.
As much as I hate to, I vote PBF as the p4p #1 at the moment. But just barely! I still think a lot more should go into determining the p4p status than pure technical ability.
If boxing can be summed up in terms of technique, then the technical fighter will always win. But that's not true, as history has proven countless times. Sometimes, a "flawed" fighter whips the living crap out of the "technically superior" fighter.
Brilliant!!!! specially the last paragraph.
from now on everytime i see the name bcollins, i will cc it and here is the start :coolclick: +113
Awww....thanks! CC back!
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
Surpised Cotto is above Hatton but that's a different argument. Floyd deserves his number 1 spot still.....altho he has retired so does everybody move up a place? Who comes in at number 10?
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
There is no debate for the #1 spot. Mayweather is the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world. He was before the Oscar fight, and he did nothing to hurt his status.
If we want to have a debate regarding Pacquiao, the debate is whether he's #2 or whether he's #3 behind Winky.
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
There is no debate for the #1 spot. Mayweather is the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world. He was before the Oscar fight, and he did nothing to hurt his status.
If we want to have a debate regarding Pacquiao, the debate is whether he's #2 or whether he's #3 behind Winky.
:coolclick: A man of sense
Floyd Mayweather 38-0 Undefeated, victories over De La Hoya, Zab Judah, Castillo (twice), Corrales, Jesus Chavez, Gatti, Angel Manfredy, Genaro Hernandez
He beat them all.
Manny Pacquiao 44-3-2 Losses to Rustico Torrecampo (KTFO), Medgoen Singscurat (KTFO) and Erik Morales (UD), Draw with Marquez (lucky to get) and draw with Agapito Sanchez.
Went 2-1 with Morales and beat Barrera, draw with Marquez
Why is this even a debate? ???
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
There is no debate for the #1 spot. Mayweather is the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world. He was before the Oscar fight, and he did nothing to hurt his status.
If we want to have a debate regarding Pacquiao, the debate is whether he's #2 or whether he's #3 behind Winky.
I agree. If it weren't for all the rabid Pac fans, I'd think that one was beyond debate too. I see Winky as the clearly better P4P fighter. He's obviously technically superior to Pac (everyone admits Pac has lots of flaws), he's fought equally good comp (Tito and Jermain were both higher than Morales P4P), and--unlike Pac--hasn't lost in years. I would hope that if Winky beats yet another P4P ATG in Hopkins, he gets back the #2 spot that he should have never lost in the first place. Pac's great to watch and all, but people really get carried away.
Re: You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
There is no debate for the #1 spot. Mayweather is the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world. He was before the Oscar fight, and he did nothing to hurt his status.
If we want to have a debate regarding Pacquiao, the debate is whether he's #2 or whether he's #3 behind Winky.
I agree. If it weren't for all the rabid Pac fans, I'd think that one was beyond debate too. I see Winky as the clearly better P4P fighter. He's obviously technically superior to Pac (everyone admits Pac has lots of flaws), he's fought equally good comp (Tito and Jermain were both higher than Morales P4P), and--unlike Pac--hasn't lost in years. I would hope that if Winky beats yet another P4P ATG in Hopkins, he gets back the #2 spot that he should have never lost in the first place. Pac's great to watch and all, but people really get carried away.
Technique or Result? that is the question. I believe it is result. Lets not forget Wright has 3 losses as well.
Winky has only moved up one division in 17 years, Pac has moved through SIX divisions and won titles against the best.
The difficult part is imagining whether or not Winky's tight defense would hold up well enough if he was a Featherweight? I doubt it... I honestly wouldn't bet on Wright beating Barrera, Morales or Marquez at 130 pounds.
bcollins put it perfect...
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Originally Posted by bcollins
If boxing can be summed up in terms of technique, then the technical fighter will always win. But that's not true, as history has proven countless times. Sometimes, a "flawed" fighter whips the living crap out of the "technically superior" fighter.
