Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Are you sincearly trying to say that Pacquiao is a more gifted over all fighter then Barrera was at his peak?.....
:D :D :D
He beat the everloving S*** out of him in his prime. And they're the same size. There's no debate as to who's better between them. None.
WTF am I even responding to this? :D
I can already see you are one of those guys who just look to stir up things so go about your business....
Yeah leave him to it mate ;)
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
yOU GUYS are picking shots, I meant at that TIME!!!!!! marco was a better p4p fighter then pac and floyd BECUASE pac and floyd was still on their way up to the top.
Floyd was a lightweight i believe at the time marco was top 3 p4p, and pac was at the 122 division. Remember Pacs first fight at 126 was marco? Floyd wasn't the great p4p king who he is now at that time, he showed a lot of talent and speed but Floyd had to wait til bhop and roy jones to lose til he broke into the top 2. Pac helped floyd by getting marco out of the way.
Daxx i gotta disagree, pac is not just a great fighter cuase of his power. your well respected around here, i can't believe you would say that. His not just gonna be another fighter without his power. Pac has a lot more going for him, his speed his stamina and his movements. His not a boxer like mab, but he can box. Didn't he just outbox mab better then jmm did? He uses his straight left more so as a mis-direction shot like how bhop or floyd would throw a straight left then step to the side. Pac doesn't use his straight left just as a follow up to a double jab anymore, like how he use to take guys out. He still and prolly always will get into a brawl and let it all hang out, which would make him look out of balance and wild at times, but pac can dominate in the center of the ring when he doesn't brawl. his done a lot its just people remembering the excitment of the brawl that makes them forget the other things pac can do. And thats why he is p4p second to only floyd money mayweather jr.
Actually I said his Chin, Power and fast pace he sets that allows him to set the tempo of the fight to his liking...not many guys even at that weight can fight to the pace Pacquiao like to set.....When a guy comes at you with the power he has and the pace he sets it is hard to keep up.....add the chin and fact you are not going to KO him with one or two shots no matter how hard and that is what gives Pacquiao or should I say makes Pacquiao who he is....Take away his chin and he is in trouble....
Has he not been outboxed by Morales?
Did JMM not comeback to give him a draw?....if not for the 3 knockdowns in rd 1 Pac would have lost the fight...even if he had only knocked JMM down once in the first rd he would have lost....
Rate Pac's defense on a 1-10, are you going to tell me you can not name 5 guys with a better jab then Pac....and yopu can not go by one fight either I go by over all.....
Let Pac keep his chin and take away his speed...would he be the fighter he is?....
Again it is Pac's Chin, Spped and Power that make him who he is not his over all boxing ability...
You don't have to agree with me just my opp
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Good but over-rated. Sort of a third tier elite fighter. Not a phenom like Floyd and Roy. Not quite on the level of Tito and Oscar. The problem with him is there's no point in time where you can look at him and say "that's when he was a monster". He looked like a beast at 122 but then he got smoked by Jones. He looked like a future all-time top 10 at 126, then he got smoked by Pac. He pretty much got beat up by Marquez and Pac at 130.
It's not a case of looking like a F****** monster at any stage of your career. He fought with pride and courage and never stopped at anything and as a result gave us some of the best bouts ever fought. As far as his losses go.......great fighters get beat by great fighters, he has never lost to a sub standard fighter. Your post is a bit confusing.
I don't know if I'd call him "sub-standard", but Jones wasn't an elite fighter. The question was "How good was MAB?", so him fighting with "pride and courage" means nothing. All fighters fight with pride and courage, because they're fighters. He was an elite fighter. Arguably a great fighter. But when you look at his actual career, it falls short of where people usually seem to place him.
Roy Jones wasn't elite?....Barrera not that good?......hmmmm your starting to remind me of someone who USED to post here.....
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
I can see you are a moron.
Clearly MAB was the better technical boxer and the more versatile fighter. WTF does that have to do with him being better? I'm not "confusing fighter with boxer", I just realize that doesn't mean anything. This isn't gymnastics. We're not grading fighters on their form.
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Good but over-rated. Sort of a third tier elite fighter. Not a phenom like Floyd and Roy. Not quite on the level of Tito and Oscar. The problem with him is there's no point in time where you can look at him and say "that's when he was a monster". He looked like a beast at 122 but then he got smoked by Jones. He looked like a future all-time top 10 at 126, then he got smoked by Pac. He pretty much got beat up by Marquez and Pac at 130.
It's not a case of looking like a F****** monster at any stage of your career. He fought with pride and courage and never stopped at anything and as a result gave us some of the best bouts ever fought. As far as his losses go.......great fighters get beat by great fighters, he has never lost to a sub standard fighter. Your post is a bit confusing.
I don't know if I'd call him "sub-standard", but Jones wasn't an elite fighter. The question was "How good was MAB?", so him fighting with "pride and courage" means nothing. All fighters fight with pride and courage, because they're fighters. He was an elite fighter. Arguably a great fighter. But when you look at his actual career, it falls short of where people usually seem to place him.
Roy Jones wasn't elite?....Barrera not that good?......hmmmm your starting to remind me of someone who USED to post here.....
Junior Jones. You know, the guy that K Barerra TFO. Where did I say he "wasn't that good"? Am I not entitled to feel a fighter is over-rated?
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
yOU GUYS are picking shots, I meant at that TIME!!!!!! marco was a better p4p fighter then pac and floyd BECUASE pac and floyd was still on their way up to the top.
Floyd was a lightweight i believe at the time marco was top 3 p4p, and pac was at the 122 division. Remember Pacs first fight at 126 was marco? Floyd wasn't the great p4p king who he is now at that time, he showed a lot of talent and speed but Floyd had to wait til bhop and roy jones to lose til he broke into the top 2. Pac helped floyd by getting marco out of the way.
How could MAB have been better than Pac? Pac moved up from 122 and dominated MAB. Was he the better fighter until the day before they fight and then Pac magically became better? What does Floyd's mythical p4p rating have to do with how good he was? He was still PBF and he was still better than Barerra. He always was.
And it doesn't matter why Pac is as good as he is. Whether it's all speed and power and no skills is irrelevant because he uses that speed and power to defeat lesser opponents... Like MAB.
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
You keep saying "take Pac's speed and power away" like he's cheating or something. If you prefer fighters who get by on technique rather than natural ability that's fine. I'm in the same boat. But it doesn't make them better. JMM is a technical wizard and Pac is a retard but when they actually fought the end result was a very even fight.
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
yOU GUYS are picking shots, I meant at that TIME!!!!!! marco was a better p4p fighter then pac and floyd BECUASE pac and floyd was still on their way up to the top.
Floyd was a lightweight i believe at the time marco was top 3 p4p, and pac was at the 122 division. Remember Pacs first fight at 126 was marco? Floyd wasn't the great p4p king who he is now at that time, he showed a lot of talent and speed but Floyd had to wait til bhop and roy jones to lose til he broke into the top 2. Pac helped floyd by getting marco out of the way.
How could MAB have been better than Pac? Pac moved up from 122 and dominated MAB. Was he the better fighter until the day before they fight and then Pac magically became better? What does Floyd's mythical p4p rating have to do with how good he was? He was still PBF and he was still better than Barerra. He always was.
And it doesn't matter why Pac is as good as he is. Whether it's all speed and power and no skills is irrelevant because he uses that speed and power to defeat lesser opponents... Like MAB.
MAB is a better boxer than Pac, without a doubt, but Pac has the tools that Marco can't handle. It's a bad chemistry for MAB. Could MAB have beaten Pac in his prime? SURE! But he didn't when the chance presented itself.
Also for Daxx. I'm not in any way shape or form starting an arguement here, I'm just stating what I think. IF Pac didn't have his mixture of speed, power, stamina, and chin he would be just another fighter, ABSOLUTELY. But the fact of the matter is he has all those things and there can't be any IF statements cause that's not the case. People say Prime-against-Prime MAB or Morales would've beaten Pacquiao. But no matter whose fan of which boxer you are, those three will always be mentioned when talking about the best in the lower weight classes.
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by caleoh12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
yOU GUYS are picking shots, I meant at that TIME!!!!!! marco was a better p4p fighter then pac and floyd BECUASE pac and floyd was still on their way up to the top.
Floyd was a lightweight i believe at the time marco was top 3 p4p, and pac was at the 122 division. Remember Pacs first fight at 126 was marco? Floyd wasn't the great p4p king who he is now at that time, he showed a lot of talent and speed but Floyd had to wait til bhop and roy jones to lose til he broke into the top 2. Pac helped floyd by getting marco out of the way.
How could MAB have been better than Pac? Pac moved up from 122 and dominated MAB. Was he the better fighter until the day before they fight and then Pac magically became better? What does Floyd's mythical p4p rating have to do with how good he was? He was still PBF and he was still better than Barerra. He always was.
And it doesn't matter why Pac is as good as he is. Whether it's all speed and power and no skills is irrelevant because he uses that speed and power to defeat lesser opponents... Like MAB.
MAB is a better boxer than Pac, without a doubt, but Pac has the tools that Marco can't handle. It's a bad chemistry for MAB. Could MAB have beaten Pac in his prime? SURE! But he didn't when the chance presented itself.
Also for Daxx. I'm not in any way shape or form starting an arguement here, I'm just stating what I think. IF Pac didn't have his mixture of speed, power, stamina, and chin he would be just another fighter, ABSOLUTELY. But the fact of the matter is he has all those things and there can't be any IF statements cause that's not the case. People say Prime-against-Prime MAB or Morales would've beaten Pacquiao. But no matter whose fan of which boxer you are, those three will always be mentioned when talking about the best in the lower weight classes.
Thank you! But uhh... Are you saying MAB wasn't prime for the first Pac fight?
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by caleoh12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
yOU GUYS are picking shots, I meant at that TIME!!!!!! marco was a better p4p fighter then pac and floyd BECUASE pac and floyd was still on their way up to the top.
Floyd was a lightweight i believe at the time marco was top 3 p4p, and pac was at the 122 division. Remember Pacs first fight at 126 was marco? Floyd wasn't the great p4p king who he is now at that time, he showed a lot of talent and speed but Floyd had to wait til bhop and roy jones to lose til he broke into the top 2. Pac helped floyd by getting marco out of the way.
How could MAB have been better than Pac? Pac moved up from 122 and dominated MAB. Was he the better fighter until the day before they fight and then Pac magically became better? What does Floyd's mythical p4p rating have to do with how good he was? He was still PBF and he was still better than Barerra. He always was.
And it doesn't matter why Pac is as good as he is. Whether it's all speed and power and no skills is irrelevant because he uses that speed and power to defeat lesser opponents... Like MAB.
MAB is a better boxer than Pac, without a doubt, but Pac has the tools that Marco can't handle. It's a bad chemistry for MAB. Could MAB have beaten Pac in his prime? SURE! But he didn't when the chance presented itself.
Also for Daxx. I'm not in any way shape or form starting an arguement here, I'm just stating what I think. IF Pac didn't have his mixture of speed, power, stamina, and chin he would be just another fighter, ABSOLUTELY. But the fact of the matter is he has all those things and there can't be any IF statements cause that's not the case. People say Prime-against-Prime MAB or Morales would've beaten Pacquiao. But no matter whose fan of which boxer you are, those three will always be mentioned when talking about the best in the lower weight classes.
Thank you! But uhh... Are you saying MAB wasn't prime for the first Pac fight?
Oh No! I always defend Pac when people say that Barrera was shot either of the times they fought. Barrera was in his prime, but he def. wasn't himself. But most likely that was because Pac brought it to him worse than he's ever seen it. Barrera's performance IMO was due to him not being ready for the storm that is Manny Pacquiao.
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
MAB can argueably be the greatest Super Bantamweight ever....
IMO, MAB was the epitimy of a professional fighter. Someone who fought thru the rankings and earned his shot at the big times by doing so. When he won his 1st title the Mexican Super Fly. he showed the tools were there they just needed to be polished some more. For his 1st defense he took on Jose F. Montiel the last name sounds familiar to you because hes from the long list of family members of Montiels who have boxed along with Pedro Montiel, Eduardo, Manuel and current WBO Super Fly. champ Fernando Montiel. Tho Jose Montiel was not a note worthy opponent as far as a record goes Montiel was wll schooled enough to poses some thread but MAB disposed of him in 2 rounds. In '94 whe he earned a shot at the WBC super fly title he failed to make weight and struggled immensly with Salazar whom IMO, MAB should have blasted out. Would he have made weight he would have fought Jose L. Bueno for the title instead we were introduced to great Japanese fighter Kawashima who went on to beat Bueno for the title.
A lot of people don't know this but MAB actually retired in 1995 when he won the WBO title from Jimenez he went back to Mexico announced his retirement. I believe his trainer & people convinced him to continue to fight and he thank god he did.
Through his career he has beaten some great fighters and some of the best fighters of his time. One of the best fighters was Kennedy when he faced MAB in the famous HBO:BAD 1st telecast... What a fight that was tremendous heart and determination by MAB shown that night. I dislike excuses so to me the JJones loses are just that loses. JJones at that time was just on one whether the personal issues had something to do with it or not is another topic all in itself I mean certain people deal with certain circustances in different ways so who knows. Then theres the 1st match up with Erik whom a handful of people think he won... I don't need to go to deep into it as I think we all know what took place that day. Another thin that people don't either know or mention is that the WBO gave MAB the title back when Erik moved up in weight to fight Kelley. Then came the NAZ whom people like to recognize as MABs signature victory. He mastered Naz and showed how smart he could be in the ring countering Naz all night long, jabbing him and keeping him busy with it. He then rematches Erik and this time people think he lost but he won a decision.... So now he had settled the score with Erik. He went on to fight the great 'Mi Vida Loca' Tapia and what turned out to be more of boxing session/lesson then anything else but showed tremendous skill again with his hand speed and defense. Along the way he also defeated Kelley prior to facing Manny in which he lost by TKO. Again lot's of things happening in his personal life some that I can't even hint at on here. But those who are deep into MABs career and or have done the research know what I'm talking about. Anyway no excuses he lost and that's that he moved on. He took on Ayala prior to facing Erik for the rubber match in what would close out one of the greates trilogies ever made. Part III was IMO a time capsule of both Erik & MABs career two great warriors just doing what they do best, fight. I'd like to point out the Fana win cause the guys moved on to positive things and has become a champion. Fana hasn't lost since then hes won 5 fights and is the current IBF Super Feather champ.
He put on some masterful teachings vs. Juarez the second time around and what he did in the JMM fight was just brilliant. Tho I must mention I have just started liking/respecting MAB due to me being an Erik fan more. One has to admit that MAB was as talented as they come.
From boxer very early in his career, to brawler in the contender stages of his career, to boxer puncher as a champ. to the technical master that he showed he could be to the brawling with Erik and trading with JMM. This dude had it all.
Most def. one of greatest boxers of this era.
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Are you sincearly trying to say that Pacquiao is a more gifted over all fighter then Barrera was at his peak?.....
:D :D :D
He beat the everloving S*** out of him in his prime. And they're the same size. There's no debate as to who's better between them. None.
WTF am I even responding to this? :D
Aren't you the same guy who had Marquez beating Barrera by a landslide ?? ::**
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
MAB can argueably be the greatest Super Bantamweight ever....
IMO, MAB was the epitimy of a professional fighter. Someone who fought thru the rankings and earned his shot at the big times by doing so. When he won his 1st title the Mexican Super Fly. he showed the tools were there they just needed to be polished some more. For his 1st defense he took on Jose F. Montiel the last name sounds familiar to you because hes from the long list of family members of Montiels who have boxed along with Pedro Montiel, Eduardo, Manuel and current WBO Super Fly. champ Fernando Montiel. Tho Jose Montiel was not a note worthy opponent as far as a record goes Montiel was wll schooled enough to poses some thread but MAB disposed of him in 2 rounds. In '94 whe he earned a shot at the WBC super fly title he failed to make weight and struggled immensly with Salazar whom IMO, MAB should have blasted out. Would he have made weight he would have fought Jose L. Bueno for the title instead we were introduced to great Japanese fighter Kawashima who went on to beat Bueno for the title.
A lot of people don't know this but MAB actually retired in 1995 when he won the WBO title from Jimenez he went back to Mexico announced his retirement. I believe his trainer & people convinced him to continue to fight and he thank god he did.
Through his career he has beaten some great fighters and some of the best fighters of his time. One of the best fighters was Kennedy when he faced MAB in the famous HBO:BAD 1st telecast... What a fight that was tremendous heart and determination by MAB shown that night. I dislike excuses so to me the JJones loses are just that loses. JJones at that time was just on one whether the personal issues had something to do with it or not is another topic all in itself I mean certain people deal with certain circustances in different ways so who knows. Then theres the 1st match up with Erik whom a handful of people think he won... I don't need to go to deep into it as I think we all know what took place that day. Another thin that people don't either know or mention is that the WBO gave MAB the title back when Erik moved up in weight to fight Kelley. Then came the NAZ whom people like to recognize as MABs signature victory. He mastered Naz and showed how smart he could be in the ring countering Naz all night long, jabbing him and keeping him busy with it. He then rematches Erik and this time people think he lost but he won a decision.... So now he had settled the score with Erik. He went on to fight the great 'Mi Vida Loca' Tapia and what turned out to be more of boxing session/lesson then anything else but showed tremendous skill again with his hand speed and defense. Along the way he also defeated Kelley prior to facing Manny in which he lost by TKO. Again lot's of things happening in his personal life some that I can't even hint at on here. But those who are deep into MABs career and or have done the research know what I'm talking about. Anyway no excuses he lost and that's that he moved on. He took on Ayala prior to facing Erik for the rubber match in what would close out one of the greates trilogies ever made. Part III was IMO a time capsule of both Erik & MABs career two great warriors just doing what they do best, fight. I'd like to point out the Fana win cause the guys moved on to positive things and has become a champion. Fana hasn't lost since then hes won 5 fights and is the current IBF Super Feather champ.
He put on some masterful teachings vs. Juarez the second time around and what he did in the JMM fight was just brilliant. Tho I must mention I have just started liking/respecting MAB due to me being an Erik fan more. One has to admit that MAB was as talented as they come.
From boxer very early in his career, to brawler in the contender stages of his career, to boxer puncher as a champ. to the technical master that he showed he could be to the brawling with Erik and trading with JMM. This dude had it all.
Most def. one of greatest boxers of this era.
Oh CutMeMick...I love your insightful posts...CC!
Re: How good was Marco Antonio Barrera
