Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
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Originally Posted by
p4pking
I didn't even read the article, but Im guessing the "EXCUSE" is that Cotto isn't the highest payday out there for him. Well until they accept the hardcore boxing fan's approval as down payement on a new Bentley, It's not an excuse at all, and this entire thread is pointless and stupid. Ive said many times that I would far rather see Floyd fight Cotto than Oscar again or anyone else, and I don't know any real boxing fan who thinks differently. The problem is I'm not stupid and delluded enough to actually expect a fighter to accept far less money for an equal or greater risk, just because it will make me happy. Especially when I realize that therre are still far more people willing to shell out THEIR money to see Floyd fight Oscar than Cotto. It's just beyond pathetic that people still need clarification as to why this fight isn't happening yet.
I don't know how you still don't get it.
The bottom line is this, I'm not even mad at him if he wants to make money if that's what he's in it for. If he wants to stay out of the way and drop the title and let the real fighters fight, it's all gravy but he's holding a title and not doing anything to hold on to the top spot.
You're right, he doesn't have to fight Cotto if he feels he's not going to make the most money but the fans don't have to call hi the best either unless he does his talking in the ring and not outside of it.
Very simple.
Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
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Originally Posted by
bcollins
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
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Originally Posted by
Bx730NY
If he did beat Cotto then he can ride off into the sunset having answered the BIG question. Until then...........
Tell me what question Mayweather hasn't already answered. Because all the "can he" "will he's" that people have used against him he has already proven he can and will. Its the fans that refuse to accept it.
But feel free to tell me what question Mayweather hasn't already answered.
Ok -
Can he ever be as great as he thinks he is? Can he ever be as great as he
says he is?It's one thing to go around proclaiming you're the best fighter of all time, but, unfortunately, that's a claim that requires proof. His resume is very solid, and I don't dispute the fact that he is one of the best boxers around today.
But to mention yourself in the same breath as Robinson, you first need to fight
all legitimate contenders. We all know Mayweather has played the matchmaking game very well. And before you accuse me of accusing Floyd of ducking so and so, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that to live up to the hype, he needs to fight Cotto. He needs to fight Margarito. He needs to fight the legitimate contenders at each of these weight classes he's bragging about winning titles in, instead of picking and choosing opposition. Fight all of them, at least the legitimate contenders.
Would he win all these fights? Very possibly - it's certainly not an unbelievable proposition. But until he actually backs up his boasting, he's never going to be the greatest of all time, for me personally. He'll be just another outstanding boxer who will always have a lot of what ifs following him around.
What if Floyd actually lived up to his potential, instead of running his mouth and fighting for money instead of legacy?
Then he might be able to make a convincing case to being the best fighter ever. For now - not even close.
Tell me what puts Cotto or Margarito on the level of "career defining fights" for Floyd? What has Cotto or Margarito done to achieve those kind of kudos to put that kind of stamp on somebodies legacy?
People say one minute Cotto is just starting at 147 and deserves an easy fight or two, the next minute they say that Mayweather NEEDS to fight him. Why does Mayweather NEED to fight Cotto?
Mayweather has already proven to be as great as he says he is, its fans who don't want to accept it.
But what makes Cotto or Margarito so great that they can put a stamp like thaton somebodies career? What have they done thats put them on that kind of plateau. I'm willing to bet that they need Mayweather a lot more for their legacies then Mayweather needs them for his.
Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
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Originally Posted by
amat
My problem with Golden Boy is...well I have a few. And that sucks because I was so high on Golden Boy and really thought they were going to revolutionize boxing. However, it looks like they have become just another promotion company which sucks.
For one, he hasn't done those things he said he would do in the leadup to Barrera-Juarez II in making a boxing summit, pushing for a national commission and all that stuff to advance the sport.
He hasn't done enough developing of his prospects. Barely any shows off TV and the only time his prospects get a chance to fight is on the undercards of big events. Those aren't often enough.
And I really am uneasy about his acquisition of The Ring, just seems like a conflict of interest.
I feel exactly the same way. GBP's apparent attempt to monopolize the LW division doesn't sit well with me either.
Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bx730NY
Cotto has been a beast at WW and floyd has been ducking all the top names. You just can't continue to cal yourself the best and do what he does.
Mayweather has ducked all the top names?
Alright. Name someone at 147 that Cotto has faced that was better then the same kind of person Mayweather faced at 147. And I consider Shane Mosley like the "Oscar De La Hoya" fight Floyd took if you know what I mean.
he fought Judah, Baldomir, and Hatton at 147. And despite the credit Baldomir took that title from Judah and was the undisputed champ, for Mayweather NOT to fight him would have been a travesty. So you can legitimately say that Baldomir was the best at 147(regardless of how you want to look at it) when Floyd fought him right?
So how did "mayweather" duck all the top fighters in the division when he had to go through them to get the title?
Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
Tell me what puts Cotto or Margarito on the level of "career defining fights" for Floyd? What has Cotto or Margarito done to achieve those kind of kudos to put that kind of stamp on somebodies legacy?
I never said anything about Cotto or Margarito being "career defining fights" for Floyd - although they might turn out that way. Who's to say which fights will end up with that moniker until the final bell has sounded? What I said was that they are both legitimate contenders at 147.
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
People say one minute Cotto is just starting at 147 and deserves an easy fight or two, the next minute they say that Mayweather NEEDS to fight him. Why does Mayweather NEED to fight Cotto?
Because he is a legitimate contender at 147, and Floyd claims to be the greatest fighter ever. Prove it - it should be easy, right? Plus he'd make a ton of cash for what should be an easy night's work. It would be nice to see him fight a meaningful fight for a change...he can always fight for money in the next one ;D
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
Mayweather has already proven to be as great as he says he is, its fans who don't want to accept it.
That is a matter of opinion. Mayweather has proven that he is one of the best fighters of our generation, no question. I grant that he is extremely talented and unquestionably a phenomenal boxer.
But Mayweather claims to be the greatest fighter of all time. That statement I wholeheartedly disagree with - and I do not feel that he has proven that in any way, shape, or form. To earn that title, to me, he would have had to fight a lot more fights at each of these weight classes in which he's won a title. Just because you win a title at a particular weight in no way means that you have answered enough legitimate challenges at that weight to be considered the best at that weight.
Even if he did clean out 147, which I do feel he's capable of doing - maybe - that still isn't enough for the title of best ever. I'm sorry, but I doubt Floyd can ever possibly win that title in the eyes of the boxing community. There was just too much clever matchmaking for that.
Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bx730NY
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Originally Posted by
p4pking
I didn't even read the article, but Im guessing the "EXCUSE" is that Cotto isn't the highest payday out there for him. Well until they accept the hardcore boxing fan's approval as down payement on a new Bentley, It's not an excuse at all, and this entire thread is pointless and stupid. Ive said many times that I would far rather see Floyd fight Cotto than Oscar again or anyone else, and I don't know any real boxing fan who thinks differently. The problem is I'm not stupid and delluded enough to actually expect a fighter to accept far less money for an equal or greater risk, just because it will make me happy. Especially when I realize that therre are still far more people willing to shell out THEIR money to see Floyd fight Oscar than Cotto. It's just beyond pathetic that people still need clarification as to why this fight isn't happening yet.
I don't know how you still don't get it.
The bottom line is this, I'm not even mad at him if he wants to make money if that's what he's in it for. If he wants to stay out of the way and drop the title and let the real fighters fight, it's all gravy but he's holding a title and not doing anything to hold on to the top spot.
You're right, he doesn't have to fight Cotto if he feels he's not going to make the most money but the fans don't have to call hi the best either unless he does his talking in the ring and not outside of it.
Very simple.
OK, but the entire premise of your arguement entails that Floyd should accept LESS money for a fight. Every fighter is in it for the money, to suggest otherwise would be kiddding yourself. It's just kind of peculiar.. I'm glad you get it, I really am, I just fail to see how YOU still don't understand why Floyd is fighting Oscar instead of Cotto... I mean for christs sake it's A LOT more money. I understand completely what your saying in that the fans should demand a Cotto fight, and I totally agree.. Unfortuneatly for us, Oscar De La Hoya still has a whole lot more fans, who probably don't read any boxing forums, and are still willing to pay the 50 bucks to see their man take of Mayweather.
Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bx730NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
I didn't even read the article, but Im guessing the "EXCUSE" is that Cotto isn't the highest payday out there for him. Well until they accept the hardcore boxing fan's approval as down payement on a new Bentley, It's not an excuse at all, and this entire thread is pointless and stupid. Ive said many times that I would far rather see Floyd fight Cotto than Oscar again or anyone else, and I don't know any real boxing fan who thinks differently. The problem is I'm not stupid and delluded enough to actually expect a fighter to accept far less money for an equal or greater risk, just because it will make me happy. Especially when I realize that therre are still far more people willing to shell out THEIR money to see Floyd fight Oscar than Cotto. It's just beyond pathetic that people still need clarification as to why this fight isn't happening yet.
I don't know how you still don't get it.
The bottom line is this, I'm not even mad at him if he wants to make money if that's what he's in it for. If he wants to stay out of the way and drop the title and let the real fighters fight, it's all gravy but he's holding a title and not doing anything to hold on to the top spot.
You're right, he doesn't have to fight Cotto if he feels he's not going to make the most money but the fans don't have to call hi the best either unless he does his talking in the ring and not outside of it.
Very simple.
OK, but the entire premise of your arguement entails that Floyd should accept LESS money for a fight. Every fighter is in it for the money, to suggest otherwise would be kiddding yourself. It's just kind of peculiar.. I'm glad you get it, I really am, I just fail to see how YOU still don't understand why Floyd is fighting Oscar instead of Cotto... I mean for christs sake it's A LOT more money. I understand completely what your saying in that the fans should demand a Cotto fight, and I totally agree.. Unfortuneatly for us, Oscar De La Hoya still has a whole lot more fans, who probably don't read any boxing forums, and are still willing to pay the 50 bucks to see their man take of Mayweather.
Fair enough and I'm glad you finally understand where I'm coming from too.
I'm not mad at him for making money but I want my moneys worth when I'm paying for a fight. The reason floyd or any other fight for that matter make money when they fight, is because us (the fans) pay for seats or PPVs or whatever so what's wrong with us demanding something in return.
It's almost like he's saying, "well, screw the real boxing fans".
Re: Not The Same Old excuse Again........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bx730NY
Cotto has been a beast at WW and floyd has been ducking all the top names. You just can't continue to cal yourself the best and do what he does.
Mayweather has ducked all the top names?
Alright. Name someone at 147 that Cotto has faced that was better then the same kind of person Mayweather faced at 147. And I consider Shane Mosley like the "Oscar De La Hoya" fight Floyd took if you know what I mean.
he fought Judah, Baldomir, and Hatton at 147. And despite the credit Baldomir took that title from Judah and was the undisputed champ, for Mayweather NOT to fight him would have been a travesty. So you can legitimately say that Baldomir was the best at 147(regardless of how you want to look at it) when Floyd fought him right?
So how did "mayweather" duck all the top fighters in the division when he had to go through them to get the title?
Oh I see. So any paper champ is more dangerous than a really good top fighter out there. My bad, I didn't realize.
