Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
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Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
It's not Wlad's fault that he has a size advantage over most of his opponents. Wlad's size is an advantage but not that much of a advantage that he can dominate all the fighters he faces. he has a great skillset to go along with his size. The heavyweight division states that anything over 200 pounds is a heavyweight so it's not like he's cheating lol.
Size wasn't a factor for Eddie when he clearly outboxed 6ft7 254 pounds Alexander Dimitrenko for 12 rounds. Dimitrenko actually has a longer reach than Wlad by 2 inches and Eddie was even able to hurt him a few times.
It was all different against Wlad though because he has alot of boxing ability to go along with the size and reach.
it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.
there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.
Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.
Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.
Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.
Demitrenko did not fight using the full advantage of his height and reach, while Wlad does it well. Also Wlad likes to hold when a fighter gets close, which I must say is a bit unfair for the smaller man.
Its like, a small fighter has to work hard to get in on Wlad and then gets held. Serious disadvantage there. I know Lennox did it too.
Anyway, the point is that a very good tall and strong boxer can easily make a very hard fight for a smaller (and weaker), but skilled opponent.
The smaller opponent has to deal with the skill -and- the size of the other guy.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjaspy3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
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Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.
there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.
Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.
Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.
Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.
Demitrenko did not fight using the full advantage of his height and reach, while Wlad does it well. Also Wlad likes to hold when a fighter gets close, which I must say is a bit unfair for the smaller man.
Its like, a small fighter has to work hard to get in on Wlad and then gets held. Serious disadvantage there. I know Lennox did it too.
Anyway, the point is that a very good tall and strong boxer can easily make a very hard fight for a smaller (and weaker), but skilled opponent.
The smaller opponent has to deal with the skill -and- the size of the other guy.
So why is Wlad get criticized because he knows how to use his reach and height to his advantage ?
Wlad did hold when Eddie got in close, Wlad isn't an inside fighter though, i can't blame him for holding. Eddie rarely did throw and get inside as well, he was more happy to stand right in front of Wlad and cover up.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6TnRvjA8ig
This is Chambers interview after his fight with Wlad.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.
Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.
Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.
but thats not the point.
Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?
when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.
and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.
Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.
Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.
but thats not the point.
Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?
when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.
and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.
Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.
Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.
but thats not the point.
Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?
when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.
and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.
Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.
....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill
Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjaspy3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
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Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.
and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.
Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.
....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill
Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.
Totally agree. It's the size that is making almost all the difference for me. The differences in skill levels and Wlad's opponents isn't all that great, it's more the size and weight advantages Wlad has from the off. If you were to knock 3 inches off of Wlad's height, opponents would have a much easier time of getting to him. In a situation like that he would come across as very one dimensional and limited and would also be revealed by his weak chin.
Wlad throws the same two punches everytime and throws in a clinch every now and then to raise the excitement factor. He is not only boring, but quite limited. Like I say, take away the height advantages and put him in with a fighter with a decent skill set and he gets shown up. Or put him in with a hungry Tyson type and see him wilt.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjaspy3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.
and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.
Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.
....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill
Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.
Pugilistic never said that the size doesn't matter, he used the example of Dimitrienko to put that in perspective: the guy was almost as big as Wlad, longer reach heavier but lost to chambers because Chambers was better skilled. Now, Wlad who's more or less Dimitrienko's size (and even not as heavy and not a reach as great) has been able to literally toy Chambers and knock him down BECAUSE he has also a nice set of skills, which Sumkalambay did deny him in first instance.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
People want wlad to go back to fighting the way he did back in the day, which would probably lead to him getting knocked out again at some point, he's not stupid! When other fighters use their gifts to their advantage their smart and skilled, when wlad uses his , he's borring and lame and unskilled...Wlad may have reach and height advantage on most of his opponents, but he's more skilled than most of them as well, knowing how to use your reach and control range is a skill in of itself, which wlad has mastered!
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armin
People want wlad to go back to fighting the way he did back in the day, which would probably lead to him getting knocked out again at some point, he's not stupid! When other fighters use their gifts to their advantage their smart and skilled, when wlad uses his , he's borring and lame and unskilled...Wlad may have reach and height advantage on most of his opponents, but he's more skilled than most of them as well, knowing how to use your reach and control range is a skill in of itself, which wlad has mastered!
He waits till the last round to use his gifts to his advantage. He only uses one gift and doesnt use any other till the last rounds.
Wladimer playing it safe and carrying rounds isnt "using the gifts to his advantage" He has size power, speed, accuracy, size and weight.
He only uses one? His size, and he only does one thing with it, jab and grab. if Wladimer used the gifts to his advantage he'd be blowing people out in 3 rounds but he prolongs things till the last round. Like I said, there i no excuse for his stalling to use what he has cause he is scared to get knocked out again, if anything prolonging the fight is worse because you can make a scared guy become brave. He should be blowing these guys away yet he isn't and he has all the talent to but he doesn't use it. No excuse for that.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Yes Wlad has a boring style, but so what? The guy wins, that's the bottom line. He uses his skills along with his natural advantages like height, reach, size, etc. If the other guy can't deal with it, tough luck, go fight someone else or go back down 1 division.
B-itching about the guy's natural physical advantages isn't changing the fact that he's the man of the division and wins, he may win in a way that you might not like, but he wins, and that's the bottom line.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
Majesty why do you go to such great lengths to defend guys like Derek Gainer and Zahir Raheem but you hate so bad on Wlad?
10 seconds into the fight I said 'oh shit' and kind of laughed because it was glaringly obvious that Fast Eddie had no shot. Wlad fought a bit boring but I agree with Taeth in that he did what he had to do to win which is the theme for guys like Mayweather and Hopkins. Wlad is no worse then Hopkins especially considering how Wlad is built it's hard to fight much different.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
The Chambers left hook to Wlad's left palm was surprisingly effective, different strategy.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
It's almost like fencing, I kind of like Wladimir though and can't wait for him to embarrrass Colonel Haye. David Haye, that's a guy I don't like. Big mouth, was schooled by Wlad in their head to head charity escalator showdown, British, fought a more boring fight versus Valuev, made a big deal of facing Monte Barrett, is British, it's a lot bad qualities. Not that him being British has anything to do with it.
Re: Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)
I don't like the situation where Wlad and Vitali get put against people that we know from the beginning cant beat them, but then after the fight, people like to talk bad because one guy was just looking to survive, or so and so didnt have the skills. Before the fights begin, everyone knows the deal so why rag on someone who you know was going to lose anyway? Like Vitali's next challanger. Yeah, that's a lost cause too.
It's not fun watching fights in which all advantages are on the side of one fighter or another. The other guy has to at least have a chance to make it exciting.
I think Wlad is ok. Personally I look forward to the day when we see a fight which actually challenges him though, and makes him have to work.
Hopefully this happens before Wlad retires.
