Wladimir cracks the POUND FOR POUND Ratings

But size isn't everything, otherwise we'd have Peter Crouch dominating the heavies.

It's how you use what you've got, big guys on the outside, small guys on the inside.

I've always considered p4p as the results a boxer has had compared to their skills. Almost like a points system where you get more points for beating a better opponent.

You simply cannot shrink or grow fighters as it's part of the whole package. You can't add a foot and a few stone to Mayweather and say if he was a heavy he'd clean up, it doesn't work like that. Same goes for the big guys, you can't shrink them and wonder how they would have then got on. Different weights need different styles and tactics and each boxer would have been COMPLETLEY different had they been born a different size.

i actually happened to check the p4p rankings for the first time in a long time just a few minutes ago


klitschko should have been there long ago :cool:

It's fair. Although Calderon should be above Wladdy and Donaire (replacing Donaire, who shouldn't be so high anyways). Adding: Wladdy can "crack" my "pound for pound ratings" anytime. :p

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Valuev destroys your argument. He is the perfect example of how a GIANT with a modicum of boxing ability can take advantage of his HUGE size to beat smaller men.

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That's my new quote.

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I was thinking about this the other day and Fenster is absolutely correct. Heavyweight is the only division where Wlad can have a 20lb weight advantage and it's the only division where he's likely to have a 6 inch height advantage.

In any other division he wouldn't have those advantages and he sure as hell wouldn't be anywhere near as effective.
Anyone with eyes can see that he is dominant because of his physical advantages. He reminds me of a heavyweight version of Andreas Kotelnik, only with a better jab and p4p he obviously hits harder.

I just think his dominance says more about the level of (or lack of it) competition at Heavyweight. I think if you took away his physical advantages he wouldn't really stand out, and for me that's why he wouldn't be in my top ten.

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Exactly.

I think any heavyweight needs to be exceptional to rate P4P. The only thing that stands out about Wlad is his size.

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He's still more than just a 6.6/6.7 HW Skel, he has a very good technique, one of the best jab and he packs load of power, biggest problem is that he doesn't have the exciting killer instinct. Anyway, seems like we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

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Skel? I am Fenster.

I agree that Wlad has good technique, a good jab, packs load of power and has no killer instinct (he has a china-chin so you can't blame him for the safety first approach) but he is also much bigger than virtually everyone he fights, hence why he is not P4P worthy.

Take away his size advantage and his skills are not anything special.

Take away his size advantage and you have a very solid boxer/puncher with big power in the left hook and right cross and a jab that does damage all fight long, decent defense, and very good ring generalship.

I think Wlad is a very skilled heavyweight because once someone gets as big as Wlad it's hard for them to retain the skills he has...he's very quick despite how big he is, he's athletic, he's powerful....the only guy you can really compare him to with size as the common factor is Lennox Lewis and I think Wlad fights in a more textbook manner than Lennox did. Meaning I think Lennox was flashier and probably improvised a bit more but Wlad sticks to his guns and he's a damn good fighter

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Originally Posted by 0james0

Out of interest, what do people make of boxrec pfp rankings?

They use a points based system, giving points based on the difficulty of the opponent and then adding or subtracting the appropriate points. Kind of how I think a pfp list should be done.

their list is currently this:

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Floyd Mayweather Jrwelterweight2
Manny Pacquiaowelterweight3
Wladimir Klitschkoheavyweight4
Bernard Hopkinslight heavyweight5
Vitali Klitschkoheavyweight6
Juan Manuel Marquezlightweight7
Paul Williamslight middleweight8
Shane Mosleywelterweight9
Lucian Butesuper middleweight10
Timothy Bradleylight welterweight11
Juan Manuel Lopezfeatherweight12
Chris Johnfeatherweight13
Andre Dirrellsuper middleweight14
Jean Pascallight heavyweight15
Fernando Montielbantamweight16
Sergio Gabriel Martinezmiddleweight17
Miguel Angel Cottolight middleweight18
David Hayeheavyweight19
Amir Khanlight welterweight20
Antonio Margaritolight middleweight

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I think that's the opposite of how a P4P list should be done, none of that takes into account how a guy actually looks when he gets into the ring.

Also I think Fenster has hit the nail on the head here. It's not discrediting Wlad but it's hard to say he's a pound for pound guy when he's the biggest guy in the heavyweight division aside from his stupid brother. I'm a fan of Wlad (the 2005 version of amat wants to fight me now) but he's the biggest guy in the division. Look at his fights with Chambers and Sultan, all he did was use his size advantages and against Sultan he held on whenever Sultan got closer then 15 feet. Bradley fights guys that are his size, how he isn't in the top 10 but Hopkins is is a joke in my opinion. Wlad is a great heavyweight fighter but I'll hold off on the P4P talk.

If David Haye or Tomas Adamek did what Wlad did then it would be a different story.