Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.
that seems to be the opinion of a few
and that could be right if they fought each other
but officially bute cannot be above either ward or froch if we consider their records
bute hasnt been in with the opponents that either man has so couldnt be ranked above either man
froch has been in with better opponents than ward but you could argue the kessler fight puts ward above
im not so sure that would be the case, id like to see ward come out with the same run of results if he had fought the same opponents as froch
completely agree with that. froch has had a tougher schedule than all of them if he had just beat Kessler, he would be p4p top ten.
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
The British posters on this board hate Tim Bradley for some reason (probably because their adoration of Khan),
:confused:
:-X
:rofmaoal:
Sorry man, I think you need to readdress that theory. Completely untrue!
NO ONE I know of has ANY kind of adoration for Khan. And as for Bradley... Well, I guess you must know better than me? :-\
It was a provocative statement. I just feel like a lot of British posters hate on Bradley. Maybe I could be wrong.
Don't you see the similarities though of Carl Froch and Tim Bradley in that they both have this toughness and grit that sees them through tough fights?
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bute looked meaningfully better than Froch against Magee, their only common opponent. It appeared Magee was only down by a point before he was caught.
That's not their only common opponent.
Sergey Tatevosyan - Froch destroyed him in two, Bute won PTS.
People can ONLY rate Bute above Froch on talent/potential. On form Bute doesn't even come close to Froch. It's not even close. It's utterly ridiculous Bute currently stands above Froch in most "expert" rankings. P4P yeah but SM rankings - utter nonsense.
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bute looked meaningfully better than Froch against Magee, their only common opponent. It appeared Magee was only down by a point before he was caught.
That's not their only common opponent.
Sergey Tatevosyan - Froch destroyed him in two, Bute won PTS.
People can ONLY rate Bute above Froch on talent/potential. On form Bute doesn't even come close to Froch. It's not even close. It's utterly ridiculous Bute currently stands above Froch in most "expert" rankings. P4P yeah but SM rankings - utter nonsense.
I didn't know they had another common opponent. Not to go on about semantics, but Bute won every single round against Tatevosyan; he just didn't knock him out. Froch fought Tatevosyan right after Bute had just dominated him too (boxrec). Froch lost quite a few rounds against Magee. It was actually a very close fight at stoppage time. Tangentially, boxrec has Pirog fighting Tatevosyan when he had only fought as professional 3 times!1 Wow.
Oh on form, Froch has better wins than any other fighter at 168. If he hadn't lost to Kessler, it wouldn't even be close. Outside of Kessler, Ward's wins aren't any better than Bute's.
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
I got Lucian Bute over Carl Froch for 3 months sig bet.
Any takers, lemme know!
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bute looked meaningfully better than Froch against Magee, their only common opponent. It appeared Magee was only down by a point before he was caught.
That's not their only common opponent.
Sergey Tatevosyan - Froch destroyed him in two, Bute won PTS.
People can ONLY rate Bute above Froch on talent/potential. On form Bute doesn't even come close to Froch. It's not even close. It's utterly ridiculous Bute currently stands above Froch in most "expert" rankings. P4P yeah but SM rankings - utter nonsense.
I didn't know they had another common opponent. Not to go on about semantics, but Bute won every single round against Tatevosyan; he just didn't knock him out. Froch fought Tatevosyan right after Bute had just dominated him too (boxrec). Froch lost quite a few rounds against Magee. It was actually a very close fight at stoppage time. Tangentially, boxrec has Pirog fighting Tatevosyan when he had only fought as professional 3 times!1 Wow.
Oh on form, Froch has better wins than any other fighter at 168. If he hadn't lost to Kessler, it wouldn't even be close. Outside of Kessler, Ward's wins aren't any better than Bute's.
Yeah lets not go into semantics but a KO is better than a PTS win and I had Brian Magee beating Froch until he was sent to sleep.. oh yeah, you have to consider Froch broke his thumb in the very first round (that's something the Froch lovers always point out).
AS for Ward having just a single better win than Bute, yeah sure it might just be one win but it's pretty fucking huge. If Bute fights Kessler it will not only be his biggest high profile fight to date but, should he win, it will also be his best achievement by MILEs, and this is a Kessler already slightly past his pomp.
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Froch is starting to grow on me. At the very least this dude has the balls to fight and stick with the tourny. Him beating bute i just can't call yet. I know what froch brings to the table but bute i'm just not so sure about yet. Dude looks great against guys who aren't so good, but against froch i just dunno. I say he beats kessler but froch ?
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bute looked meaningfully better than Froch against Magee, their only common opponent. It appeared Magee was only down by a point before he was caught.
That's not their only common opponent.
Sergey Tatevosyan - Froch destroyed him in two, Bute won PTS.
People can ONLY rate Bute above Froch on talent/potential. On form Bute doesn't even come close to Froch. It's not even close. It's utterly ridiculous Bute currently stands above Froch in most "expert" rankings. P4P yeah but SM rankings - utter nonsense.
I didn't know they had another common opponent. Not to go on about semantics, but Bute won every single round against Tatevosyan; he just didn't knock him out. Froch fought Tatevosyan right after Bute had just dominated him too (boxrec). Froch lost quite a few rounds against Magee. It was actually a very close fight at stoppage time. Tangentially, boxrec has Pirog fighting Tatevosyan when he had only fought as professional 3 times!1 Wow.
Oh on form, Froch has better wins than any other fighter at 168. If he hadn't lost to Kessler, it wouldn't even be close. Outside of Kessler, Ward's wins aren't any better than Bute's.
Yeah lets not go into semantics but a KO is better than a PTS win and I had Brian Magee beating Froch until he was sent to sleep.. oh yeah, you have to consider Froch broke his thumb in the very first round (that's something the Froch lovers always point out).
AS for Ward having just a single better win than Bute, yeah sure it might just be one win but it's pretty fucking huge. If Bute fights Kessler it will not only be his biggest high profile fight to date but, should he win, it will also be his best achievement by MILEs, and t
his is a Kessler already slightly past his pomp.
Let's not diminish the win before it happens. If he is slightly passed his pomp now, what was he when he fought Froch in his last fight? In addition, Bute looked better than Ward in fighting Miranda and Bika. He dominated Bika with a capital D whereas Ward had some difficulties and he knocked out Miranda viciously.
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bute looked meaningfully better than Froch against Magee, their only common opponent. It appeared Magee was only down by a point before he was caught.
That's not their only common opponent.
Sergey Tatevosyan - Froch destroyed him in two, Bute won PTS.
People can ONLY rate Bute above Froch on talent/potential. On form Bute doesn't even come close to Froch. It's not even close. It's utterly ridiculous Bute currently stands above Froch in most "expert" rankings. P4P yeah but SM rankings - utter nonsense.
I didn't know they had another common opponent. Not to go on about semantics, but Bute won every single round against Tatevosyan; he just didn't knock him out. Froch fought Tatevosyan right after Bute had just dominated him too (boxrec). Froch lost quite a few rounds against Magee. It was actually a very close fight at stoppage time. Tangentially, boxrec has Pirog fighting Tatevosyan when he had only fought as professional 3 times!1 Wow.
Oh on form, Froch has better wins than any other fighter at 168. If he hadn't lost to Kessler, it wouldn't even be close. Outside of Kessler, Ward's wins aren't any better than Bute's.
Yeah lets not go into semantics but a KO is better than a PTS win and I had Brian Magee beating Froch until he was sent to sleep.. oh yeah, you have to consider Froch broke his thumb in the very first round (that's something the Froch lovers always point out).
AS for Ward having just a single better win than Bute, yeah sure it might just be one win but it's pretty fucking huge. If Bute fights Kessler it will not only be his biggest high profile fight to date but, should he win, it will also be his best achievement by MILEs, and t
his is a Kessler already slightly past his pomp.
Let's not diminish the win before it happens. If he is slightly passed his pomp now, what was he when he fought Froch in his
last fight? In addition, Bute looked better than Ward in fighting Miranda and Bika. He dominated Bika with a capital D whereas Ward had some difficulties and he knocked out Miranda viciously.
Last year Kessler was forced into retirement through vision problems. In recent years he also has had hand/arm and back problems. I think it's pretty safe to say he is slightly past his best. However, it will still be a great win for Bute.. IF he wins.
Bute beat Miranda/Bika more impressively than Ward - IYO. Fair enough. If those were Ward's best wins then you could rate Bute above him on that formline. However, they're not Ward's best wins they're Bute's best. Ward has a better win, which therefore ranks him higher than Bute in the supermiddle rankings ;)
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
I think Kessler v Bute would be a great fight!
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bute looked meaningfully better than Froch against Magee, their only common opponent. It appeared Magee was only down by a point before he was caught.
That's not their only common opponent.
Sergey Tatevosyan - Froch destroyed him in two, Bute won PTS.
People can ONLY rate Bute above Froch on talent/potential. On form Bute doesn't even come close to Froch. It's not even close. It's utterly ridiculous Bute currently stands above Froch in most "expert" rankings. P4P yeah but SM rankings - utter nonsense.
I didn't know they had another common opponent. Not to go on about semantics, but Bute won every single round against Tatevosyan; he just didn't knock him out. Froch fought Tatevosyan right after Bute had just dominated him too (boxrec). Froch lost quite a few rounds against Magee. It was actually a very close fight at stoppage time. Tangentially, boxrec has Pirog fighting Tatevosyan when he had only fought as professional 3 times!1 Wow.
Oh on form, Froch has better wins than any other fighter at 168. If he hadn't lost to Kessler, it wouldn't even be close. Outside of Kessler, Ward's wins aren't any better than Bute's.
Yeah lets not go into semantics but a KO is better than a PTS win and I had Brian Magee beating Froch until he was sent to sleep.. oh yeah, you have to consider Froch broke his thumb in the very first round (that's something the Froch lovers always point out).
AS for Ward having just a single better win than Bute, yeah sure it might just be one win but it's pretty fucking huge. If Bute fights Kessler it will not only be his biggest high profile fight to date but, should he win, it will also be his best achievement by MILEs, and t
his is a Kessler already slightly past his pomp.
Let's not diminish the win before it happens. If he is slightly passed his pomp now, what was he when he fought Froch in his
last fight? In addition, Bute looked better than Ward in fighting Miranda and Bika. He dominated Bika with a capital D whereas Ward had some difficulties and he knocked out Miranda viciously.
Last year Kessler was forced into retirement through vision problems. In recent years he also has had hand/arm and back problems. I think it's pretty safe to say he is slightly past his best. However, it will still be a great win for Bute.. IF he wins.
Bute beat Miranda/Bika more impressively than Ward - IYO. Fair enough. If those were Ward's best wins then you could rate Bute above him on that formline. However, they're not Ward's best wins they're Bute's best. Ward has a better win, which therefore ranks him higher than Bute in the supermiddle rankings ;)
There is no debate about that. It's also the reason Ward ranks above Froch.
Kessler said he had those vision problems prior to the Froch fight too as well as the hand/back problems. Not to diminish Froch's loss. ;D
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bute looked meaningfully better than Froch against Magee, their only common opponent. It appeared Magee was only down by a point before he was caught.
That's not their only common opponent.
Sergey Tatevosyan - Froch destroyed him in two, Bute won PTS.
People can ONLY rate Bute above Froch on talent/potential. On form Bute doesn't even come close to Froch. It's not even close. It's utterly ridiculous Bute currently stands above Froch in most "expert" rankings. P4P yeah but SM rankings - utter nonsense.
I didn't know they had another common opponent. Not to go on about semantics, but Bute won every single round against Tatevosyan; he just didn't knock him out. Froch fought Tatevosyan right after Bute had just dominated him too (boxrec). Froch lost quite a few rounds against Magee. It was actually a very close fight at stoppage time. Tangentially, boxrec has Pirog fighting Tatevosyan when he had only fought as professional 3 times!1 Wow.
Oh on form, Froch has better wins than any other fighter at 168. If he hadn't lost to Kessler, it wouldn't even be close. Outside of Kessler, Ward's wins aren't any better than Bute's.
Yeah lets not go into semantics but a KO is better than a PTS win and I had Brian Magee beating Froch until he was sent to sleep.. oh yeah, you have to consider Froch broke his thumb in the very first round (that's something the Froch lovers always point out).
AS for Ward having just a single better win than Bute, yeah sure it might just be one win but it's pretty fucking huge. If Bute fights Kessler it will not only be his biggest high profile fight to date but, should he win, it will also be his best achievement by MILEs, and t
his is a Kessler already slightly past his pomp.
Let's not diminish the win before it happens. If he is slightly passed his pomp now, what was he when he fought Froch in his
last fight? In addition, Bute looked better than Ward in fighting Miranda and Bika. He dominated Bika with a capital D whereas Ward had some difficulties and he knocked out Miranda viciously.
Last year Kessler was forced into retirement through vision problems. In recent years he also has had hand/arm and back problems. I think it's pretty safe to say he is slightly past his best. However, it will still be a great win for Bute.. IF he wins.
Bute beat Miranda/Bika more impressively than Ward - IYO. Fair enough. If those were Ward's best wins then you could rate Bute above him on that formline. However, they're not Ward's best wins they're Bute's best. Ward has a better win, which therefore ranks him higher than Bute in the supermiddle rankings ;)
There is no debate about that. It's also the reason Ward ranks above Froch.
Kessler said he had those vision problems prior to the Froch fight too as well as the hand/back problems. Not to diminish Froch's loss. ;D
Exactly. Ward rates above Froch on that formline.
If Kessler had vision problems against Froch, it certainly hasn't improved so there's no way he is currently in his pomp. If he does fight Bute he probably needs a warm-up first.
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Exactly. Ward rates above Froch on that formline.
If Kessler had vision problems against Froch, it certainly hasn't improved so there's no way he is currently in his pomp. If he does fight Bute he probably needs a warm-up first.
He's lined up to fight a Canadian guy that was on the last Bute undercard. Renee' St. Juste is his name, I think.
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.
WHAT!!
what has bute achieved in the division ....
froch has beat taylor, abraham, dirrell and the current #1 at 175 in pascal.. along with a close loss to kessler in denmark and you have him behind a guy that was practically ko'd by andrade for all but a bit of home town reffing
Re: Lucian bute vs Carl froch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmanhatton
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.
WHAT!!
what has bute achieved in the division ....
froch has beat taylor, abraham, dirrell and the current #1 at 175 in pascal.. along with a close loss to kessler in denmark and you have him behind a guy that was practically ko'd by andrade for all but a bit of home town reffing
Maybe it turns out I wasn't clear at all ;D I believe the order of the division in terms of talent is Ward, Bute and then Froch, but as far as records, its Ward/Froch, then Bute. No doubt whatsoever. If Froch had beat Kessler, it would be hands down Froch, Ward, Bute.
Hitman - you always forget that Bute knocked out Andrade in their second meeting. Lest you also forget, he won 10 rounds of 12 in their first fight too. In fact, if you look at his opponents, Bute has barely lost a round in the last few years. Really, he hasn't clearly lost a round besides the last two to Andrade in their first fight. You also minimize the fact that he then took the rematch with Andrade just to settle any controversy about the first fight. He didn't have to do that because officially he got the W. What was the point of doing that if people like you continue to bring up the first fight? The fact that he did do that should be testament to the quality of sportsman that he is. That you consistently bring up the first match with Andrade really is completely baffling.
