Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
just based on what i see
you dont have to have the same opinion
IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk
ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa
I can understand saying Ali is not the best HW of all time P4P but hard to argue him not being top 2 or 3....
6'3" gave him enough size to compete in any era...In fact he is larger then most heavyweights in eras prior.....He could take abuse beyond what most men could dream of...Down yes but never knocked out cold...Including against argueably the hardest p4p puncher ever in Foreman....First three time HW champion...He fought in an era where HW boxing was at its best and everyone had a different style but were the cream of the crop at that style.....His speed was amazing, he had credible power and was a master at making adjustments in the ring.......
Liston, Quarry, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, Chuvalo, Moore, Williams, Cooper, Terrell, Foster, Norton, Lyle....I mean those alone are a gauntlet that no other HW can claim even close to in talent as in terms of opposition....Shit the contenders were better then most of the champions we have had in HW history....
Maybe not #1 maybe so but dismissed with a "Naaaaaa"....I mean really this is Ali I don't understand how a case even has to be made for his status
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
So what I mean is, they all meet each other on their very best night over 12 rounds. Take into consideration all factors, such as height e.t.c; e.g even if you think Rocky Marciano is the 'Greatest' heavyweight of all time, you surely would not expect him to beat Vitali Klitchko!
I think that some names that would not appear on the top 10 ATG list, would have a shout using this criteria.
Thoughts?
This is not about longjevity or legacy etc etc it's about one-on-one fights on their very best night.
This is a VERY good topic and I love the way you have it going about....You are 100% correct using the method stated many not ATG hwts can be mentioned.....
Shavers can be a candidate just due to his power being enough to starch anyone on any night...Walcott a former chasmpion who could be a dark horse....Marciano on the stamina factor could wear down any HW......
Personally I like Jack Johnson as a favorite Jack was amazing and 75yrs ahead of his time in skillset when compared to others of his era....Sam McVey was damn dagerous!!!!
I can't even begin to choose who would truly win after thought so many names so good on certain nights.....The Buster Douglas that beat Tyson would be a canidate for certain
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
In the order of who I would most likely pick....
1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Lennox or a Klitschko
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
So what I mean is, they all meet each other on their very best night over 12 rounds. Take into consideration all factors, such as height e.t.c; e.g even if you think Rocky Marciano is the 'Greatest' heavyweight of all time, you surely would not expect him to beat Vitali Klitchko!
I think that some names that would not appear on the top 10 ATG list, would have a shout using this criteria.
Thoughts?
This is not about longjevity or legacy etc etc it's about one-on-one fights on their very best night.
This is a VERY good topic and I love the way you have it going about....You are 100% correct using the method stated many not ATG hwts can be mentioned.....
Shavers can be a candidate just due to his power being enough to starch anyone on any night...Walcott a former chasmpion who could be a dark horse....Marciano on the stamina factor could wear down any HW......
Personally I like Jack Johnson as a favorite Jack was amazing and 75yrs ahead of his time in skillset when compared to others of his era....Sam McVey was damn dagerous!!!!
I can't even begin to choose who would truly win after thought so many names so good on certain nights.....The Buster Douglas that beat Tyson would be a canidate for certain
Yeh, agree on Buster Douglas. I mean, he was generally a lazy fat bum, but he had talent and on that one night in history he was phenomenal!!
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
just based on what i see
you dont have to have the same opinion
IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk
ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa
I can understand saying Ali is not the best HW of all time P4P but hard to argue him not being top 2 or 3....
6'3" gave him enough size to compete in any era...In fact he is larger then most heavyweights in eras prior.....He could take abuse beyond what most men could dream of...Down yes but never knocked out cold...Including against argueably the hardest p4p puncher ever in Foreman....First three time HW champion...He fought in an era where HW boxing was at its best and everyone had a different style but were the cream of the crop at that style.....His speed was amazing, he had credible power and was a master at making adjustments in the ring.......
Liston, Quarry, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, Chuvalo, Moore, Williams, Cooper, Terrell, Foster, Norton, Lyle....I mean those alone are a gauntlet that no other HW can claim even close to in talent as in terms of opposition....Shit the contenders were better then most of the champions we have had in HW history....
Maybe not #1 maybe so but dismissed with a "Naaaaaa"....I mean really this is Ali I don't understand how a case even has to be made for his status
i dont doubt ali is in the top 5 but people seem to place him unconditionally at number one and scoff at the fact that it might not be the case
My overall view of that era is that it was no better or richer in tallent than any other its just there was no real standout heavyweight so the fights were close and Ali was around and his mouth did all the talking :)
some of the guys you mentioned in your list would be beaten by the klits in exactly the same way as most of the contenders do today
cooper lost loads of fights
ali defended against london who wouldnt be top 20 in britain today
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.
Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.
Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to
People underrate Sonny Liston, no one knew his true age, reports say he was close to 40 when he fought Muhammad Ali i believe.
He actually had one of the best jabs in Heavyweight history, and ridiculously long reach for his height at 84 inches. And joke reports used to say his hand size was the size on dinner plates.
I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.
Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to
People underrate Sonny Liston, no one knew his true age, reports say he was close to 40 when he fought Muhammad Ali i believe.
He actually had one of the best jabs in Heavyweight history, and ridiculously long reach for his height at 84 inches. And joke reports used to say his hand size was the size on dinner plates.
I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.
I'm not underrating him, I'm just pointing out that history tells us he got whooped twice by Clay/Ali. He wasn't showing any signs of aging prior to those fights, he'd just detroyed Patterson twice in ide a round each time and had been walking through the best the division had to offer and knocking them all out. It's odd how there is no official record of his age, but he was reportedely 32 when he fought Clay in 64. H elaimed to have turned pro at 21, so that would've confirmed that.
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.
Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to
People underrate Sonny Liston, no one knew his true age, reports say he was close to 40 when he fought Muhammad Ali i believe.
He actually had one of the best jabs in Heavyweight history, and ridiculously long reach for his height at 84 inches. And joke reports used to say his hand size was the size on dinner plates.
I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.
I'm not underrating him, I'm just pointing out that history tells us he got whooped twice by Clay/Ali. He wasn't showing any signs of aging prior to those fights, he'd just detroyed Patterson twice in ide a round each time and had been walking through the best the division had to offer and knocking them all out. It's odd how there is no official record of his age, but he was reportedely 32 when he fought Clay in 64
I think they say he was 36 when he fought Muhammad Ali.
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
His age is irrelevant. If you show blinding form and take a fearsome reputation into a contest you can't start making excuses - of being past it/out of form - if you get whipped.
This age argument in boxing is a very dubious one.
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Liston was a plodder , prime george foreman beheads him , and if a light punching ali boxes him to a standstill , larry holmes / Lewis / vitali / all beat him for me.
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Liston was a plodder , prime george foreman beheads him , and if a light punching ali boxes him to a standstill , larry holmes / Lewis / vitali / all beat him for me.
Sonny Liston used to spar with George Foreman, supposedly taught him all the bullying tactics.
Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.
Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to
I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.
The only problem with Underrated fighters, is that they are easily overrated ;D
No, in all fairness, I think he beats all the guys Marciano beat (Charles, Walcaott, Moore etc). Him against Louis would of been an epic tear up.... But beyond that, I think a lot of other greats beat him up.
