Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.
Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)
I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!
But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?
Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?
BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.
And longer primes are better than shorter ones, right? I don't have John L in the top ten for exactly that reason and I don't have Sal Sanchez in Mexico's top five for that reason as well. Fighters who can generally defeat the best for five years or more are, everything else equal, more impressive than those with a three year prime, right? And those guys who perform for a decade are more impressive yet, yes?
But let me get this straight. A 23 year old fighter who has not only never lost, but has never been in a war and won his last fight by KO1 is somehow "damaged goods?" Really?
The number of GREAT fighters without a TRUE championship in boxing history can be counted on both hands and 7-8 of those were color issues.
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.
Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)
I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!
But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?
Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?
BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.
And longer primes are better than shorter ones, right? I don't have John L in the top ten for exactly that reason and I don't have Sal Sanchez in Mexico's top five for that reason as well. Fighters who can generally defeat the best for five years or more are, everything else equal, more impressive than those with a three year prime, right? And those guys who perform for a decade are more impressive yet, yes?
But let me get this straight.
A 23 year old fighter who has not only never lost, but has never been in a war and won his last fight by KO1 is somehow "damaged goods?" Really?
The number of GREAT fighters without a TRUE championship in boxing history can be counted on both hands and 7-8 of those were color issues.
You obviously know very little about physcology :) If his head was fucked, his head was fucked, simple as. What percentage of boxing do you think is mental verus physical?
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.
Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)
I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!
But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?
Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?
BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.
And longer primes are better than shorter ones, right? I don't have John L in the top ten for exactly that reason and I don't have Sal Sanchez in Mexico's top five for that reason as well. Fighters who can generally defeat the best for five years or more are, everything else equal, more impressive than those with a three year prime, right? And those guys who perform for a decade are more impressive yet, yes?
But let me get this straight.
A 23 year old fighter who has not only never lost, but has never been in a war and won his last fight by KO1 is somehow "damaged goods?" Really?
The number of GREAT fighters without a TRUE championship in boxing history can be counted on both hands and 7-8 of those were color issues.
You obviously know very little about physcology :) If his head was fucked, his head was fucked, simple as. What percentage of boxing do you think is mental verus physical?
I know enough psychology to know you need a sit down to make a diagnosis! ;)
In the immortal words of Yogi Berra? The physical side is 90% mental.
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Tyson looked good beating up crap comp i give him credit for the Spinks and Holmes fights. He never would of beat Holyfeild not on his level and Lewis lucky punch is his best shot and thats about it.
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Go as far out to the middle of nowhere as you can go. Dig a hole two hundred miles underground. Dig out some pigme underground citizen ask him who mike tyson is and i bet he'll tell you. And people ask if he was really any good.
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Mike Tyson for all intents and purposes never achieved greatness because of the change of people entrusted with his care and to repeat the history behind that statement is a waste of time. Mike Tyson, to use the words of trainers I have met was a high active fighter, I may have used the wrong words but it simply means that Mike had to fight often and be free of distractions and that included reading and believing his own press. In other words, without learning and constant activity and preparation, Mike was a loose cannon with a good punch and there would come a time when luck and not ability would keep him afloat. Believe it or not he knew this but like a fly caught in a spider's web he surrendered to the inevitable. That means all the trappings and trimmings on a cake he should never have dined on. Mike had they potential to be great but sooner or later a bigger man would put him to thye test and not Riddick Bowe whose concentration would wither away in the middle rounds. Bowe also fought on the inside, big mistake. The prpof is when he lost to Holyfield and his fights with Golata. Big men should fight tall and Mike should never have stood up to slug it out with Ruddock either. His ego got in the way and Rooney was perfect for the job and Giachetti was a thug that posed as a manager. Great? He had potential but we will never know because Mike fought his scariest opponent and was K.O."D. His name was Mike Tyson.
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
By the way he was what they call a high energy fighter and sooner or later his candle would have burned out unless someone taught him how to conserve energy in the ring. Buster Dopuglas put the flame out on his candle and trained for Holyfield on pizza and beer via room service. His ambition didn't last long so, so much for greatness.
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?
George Foreman only managed 2 defences in the 70's and lost 1 of them;D
P.S. This is the first time iv looked in this thread for a while. Didnt realise big H was saying the same thing I did about judging Mike up till Spinks!
Otherwise we might as well say Jones was shit;D
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roberto duran legend
If u are to be called a great fighter , surely you must of beat some really good or great fighters ? . Does iron mike really deserve to be called great ? . After all his best wins were over , Michael Spinks who was a great light heavy , but still a small heavyweight , and a faded legend in Larry Holmes . NOT the best resume is it . I know he was fearsome in his prime , but he never beat a top world class fighter in there prime .He was outclassed by Holyfield TWICE , and Lewis when long past his best . Bowe would have kicked his ass as well .
Yes, Tyson is TBE. Nuff said.
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Mike Tyson's issue was COKE... that and whores... Don King controlled him with those vices, and the rest is history.
People don't realize that an oversexed, coked out confused Mike Tyson was beating the hell out of HW's.
:o
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Mike Tyson's issue was COKE... that and whores... Don King controlled him with those vices, and the rest is history.
People don't realize that an oversexed, coked out confused Mike Tyson was beating the hell out of HW's.
:o
He was beating the hell out of Joe Public, women in fact anyone other than decent heavyweights/cruiserweights, who humiliated him. Mans a disgrace, he only gets media coverage because he bit evanders ear, never mind he got hammered twice by a cruiser who had some balls and did not play the iron mike agenda, then along comes lennox and humiliates the twat again! Not to mention Irishmen , Danny Williams or Buster Douglas! Mans a disgrace, fuck him
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nuggetdotcom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Mike Tyson's issue was COKE... that and whores... Don King controlled him with those vices, and the rest is history.
People don't realize that an oversexed, coked out confused Mike Tyson was beating the hell out of HW's.
:o
He was beating the hell out of Joe Public, women in fact anyone other than decent heavyweights/cruiserweights, who humiliated him. Mans a disgrace, he only gets media coverage because he bit evanders ear, never mind he got hammered twice by a cruiser who had some balls and did not play the iron mike agenda, then along comes lennox and humiliates the twat again! Not to mention Irishmen , Danny Williams or Buster Douglas! Mans a disgrace, fuck him
How about fuck you mate!
All boxers fight bums at the start of their career. From the time Tyson fought for his first title he was NOT fighting bums.
In fact a proper evaluation has him with probably the 5th best HW resume of all time! After the Klitschko's, Holyfield and Lewis!
That "Cruiser" happened to be a "former Cruiser" and was roided to the absolute gills and one of the legends of the sport!
Other than that, LEnnox Lewis, among the best fighters ever to set foot in the ring and 3 other big boxers who out-talled and outweighed him!
Buster outboxed him soundly. Tyson was winning nearly every round against Williams before getting caught by big punches from a 270 bloody lb man! And he was pretty much even in the McBride fight too before he quit and retired.
Gee that's really something to diss there man!
Amongst all that, the man basically destroyed many good opponents and was always a dangerous and feared puncher right to the very end. Fuck me, I have never seen another boxer quite like Mike who can bend around punches, work their way inside with such exceptional handspeed, accuracy combined with savage power. I reckon that might have earned him a bit of media coverage well before he bit Evanders bloody ear off!
Your acidic post deserves the highest scorn, and you disrespect excellent boxer!
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Mike Tyson was awesome, what an unbelievable time for boxing
The excitement around the sport can only really be matched by times during the Ali era (in liveable memory)
anyone who comes out with all shit like he wasnt great because...... is a bellend and really doesnt understand what makes boxing great :)
Re: Is mike Tyson that great ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nuggetdotcom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Mike Tyson's issue was COKE... that and whores... Don King controlled him with those vices, and the rest is history.
People don't realize that an oversexed, coked out confused Mike Tyson was beating the hell out of HW's.
:o
He was beating the hell out of Joe Public, women in fact anyone other than decent heavyweights/cruiserweights, who humiliated him. Mans a disgrace, he only gets media coverage because he bit evanders ear, never mind he got hammered twice by a cruiser who had some balls and did not play the iron mike agenda, then along comes lennox and humiliates the twat again! Not to mention Irishmen , Danny Williams or Buster Douglas! Mans a disgrace, fuck him
How about fuck you mate!
All boxers fight bums at the start of their career. From the time Tyson fought for his first title he was NOT fighting bums.
In fact a proper evaluation has him with probably the 5th best HW resume of all time! After the Klitschko's, Holyfield and Lewis!
That "Cruiser" happened to be a "former Cruiser" and was roided to the absolute gills and one of the legends of the sport!
Other than that, LEnnox Lewis, among the best fighters ever to set foot in the ring and 3 other big boxers who out-talled and outweighed him!
Buster outboxed him soundly. Tyson was winning nearly every round against Williams before getting caught by big punches from a 270 bloody lb man! And he was pretty much even in the McBride fight too before he quit and retired.
Gee that's really something to diss there man!
Amongst all that, the man basically destroyed many good opponents and was always a dangerous and feared puncher right to the very end. Fuck me, I have never seen another boxer quite like Mike who can bend around punches, work their way inside with such exceptional handspeed, accuracy combined with savage power. I reckon that might have earned him a bit of media coverage well before he bit Evanders bloody ear off!
Your acidic post deserves the highest scorn, and you disrespect excellent boxer!
If you're in a hole, dont keep digging! You make a better case that me for disrespecting him, heavyweight gets beat by bigger, older, fatter heavyweight, remind me what the weight limit is? Twat!
