Is mike Tyson that great ?

[marbleheadmaui]

People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.

Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)

I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!

But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?

[FinitoElDinamita]

He had great potential but failed to live up to it so no, Tyson is nowhere near great. I dont even like to use that term when describing a fighter like him. He was just a beast during his prime but when he stepped up against the best, he failed... He never came through on his biggest nights. The man wasn't capable of overcoming adversity and that is not a great fighter.

[BIG H]

People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.

Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)

I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!

But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?

Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?

BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.

[Mr140]

Thats bullshit big h His lose to Douglas was a close to his prime and i don't give a shit what anybody says about that. You could also say that Lennox lewis never lost in his prime either because one was early and in his career and one was late. The only loses i don't count against a fighter is when they are shot and so far off prime that they are a name and not a fighter anymore.

[roberto duran legend]

Sanchez never got the shit kicked out of him , loads of times .

[BIG H]

Thats bullshit big h His lose to Douglas was a close to his prime and i don't give a shit what anybody says about that. You could also say that Lennox lewis never lost in his prime either because one was early and in his career and one was late. The only loses i don't count against a fighter is when they are shot and so far off prime that they are a name and not a fighter anymore.

He was a mess going into the Douglas fight. He had just got divorced, he hadn't trained, some people claimed he was taking drugs. That was not the real Mike Tyson in that ring and imo we never saw him again. Cracks had started in his mental state as early as the Bruno fight, he had all the contract issues with King and Cayton amongst other things mentioned.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Sanchez died before he had the chance to.

I'm pretty sure Mike Tyson thought he'd wind up dead before 30 and that must of been key to his mental outlook. He was always prone to self-distruct.
.

[marbleheadmaui]

People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.

Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)

I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!

But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?

Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?

BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.

And longer primes are better than shorter ones, right? I don't have John L in the top ten for exactly that reason and I don't have Sal Sanchez in Mexico's top five for that reason as well. Fighters who can generally defeat the best for five years or more are, everything else equal, more impressive than those with a three year prime, right? And those guys who perform for a decade are more impressive yet, yes?

But let me get this straight. A 23 year old fighter who has not only never lost, but has never been in a war and won his last fight by KO1 is somehow "damaged goods?" Really?

The number of GREAT fighters without a TRUE championship in boxing history can be counted on both hands and 7-8 of those were color issues.

[BIG H]

People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.

Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)

I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!

But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?

Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?

BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.

And longer primes are better than shorter ones, right? I don't have John L in the top ten for exactly that reason and I don't have Sal Sanchez in Mexico's top five for that reason as well. Fighters who can generally defeat the best for five years or more are, everything else equal, more impressive than those with a three year prime, right? And those guys who perform for a decade are more impressive yet, yes?

But let me get this straight. A 23 year old fighter who has not only never lost, but has never been in a war and won his last fight by KO1 is somehow "damaged goods?" Really?

The number of GREAT fighters without a TRUE championship in boxing history can be counted on both hands and 7-8 of those were color issues.

You obviously know very little about physcology If his head was fucked, his head was fucked, simple as. What percentage of boxing do you think is mental verus physical?

[marbleheadmaui]

People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.

Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)

I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!

But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?

Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?

BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.

And longer primes are better than shorter ones, right? I don't have John L in the top ten for exactly that reason and I don't have Sal Sanchez in Mexico's top five for that reason as well. Fighters who can generally defeat the best for five years or more are, everything else equal, more impressive than those with a three year prime, right? And those guys who perform for a decade are more impressive yet, yes?

But let me get this straight. A 23 year old fighter who has not only never lost, but has never been in a war and won his last fight by KO1 is somehow "damaged goods?" Really?

The number of GREAT fighters without a TRUE championship in boxing history can be counted on both hands and 7-8 of those were color issues.

You obviously know very little about physcology If his head was fucked, his head was fucked, simple as. What percentage of boxing do you think is mental verus physical?

I know enough psychology to know you need a sit down to make a diagnosis!

In the immortal words of Yogi Berra? The physical side is 90% mental.

[Mr140]

Tyson looked good beating up crap comp i give him credit for the Spinks and Holmes fights. He never would of beat Holyfeild not on his level and Lewis lucky punch is his best shot and thats about it.

[ross]

But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?

George Foreman only managed 2 defences in the 70's and lost 1 of them

P.S. This is the first time iv looked in this thread for a while. Didnt realise big H was saying the same thing I did about judging Mike up till Spinks!

Otherwise we might as well say Jones was shit