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Bruno retired directly after the Tyson rematch (which is the one I was mentioning)...as for Bruce Seldon being dangerous :11fb8:Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
I think there's some overlap there. IMO, the Bruno and Seldon that Tyson fought were pretty clearly more dangerous than the Cooper, Cooney, and Coetzer that Foreman fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
They were still both active (unlike Cooney) and winning fights against reasonably good competition (unlike Coetzer, coming off of two successive KO losses (and who, like Bruno, retired immediately after the fight in question) and Cooper (who was batting about .500 over the two years going into the Foreman fight, against less-than-stellar competition).
...and who ended up being Heavyweight Champion of the World? Thank you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
...as opposed to Seldon, who was a heavyweight champion at the time Tyson fought him. You're welcome.
and what a great champion Seldon was, i once heard a terrible rumour that Seldon was wearing shorts made by pampers the night he went out on his shield when he fought Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Well, seriously now, as opposed to the late 90's version of Bert Cooper, you're going to call out Seldon? If you missed Cooper's "ascension" to the title, it went like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Aland what a great champion Seldon was, i once heard a terrible rumour that Seldon was wearing shorts made by pampers the night he went out on his shield when he fought Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
First, he got knocked out by Holyfield, trying to win the IBF and WBA titles.
Then, he got knocked out by Michael Moorer, trying to win the WBO title
Then he lost 3 out of 5 fights in 1993
Then he lost 2 out of 4 fights in 1994
Then he got knocked out in his only fight in 1995
Then he took 1996 off
Then he lost his first two fights in 1997.
THEN, he got a "title fight"!
His record going into his "world championship" fight was 7 wins in his last 17 fights. Of those 7 wins, one was against George Harris: Professional record 2-17 going into the Cooper fight. Another was against Joe Savage, who was making his professional debut (and last fight). Another was Mike Robinson (6-16-1 lifetime). Those, by the way, were his ONLY wins in the four years leading up to his title fight. Over four years, he wins 3 fights (against guys with a combined 8 wins in 42 fights) and loses 7, and he gets a "title fight" against Richie Melito (who?!)
So, yeah, Bruce Seldon isn't in anyone's list of top 10 heavyweight champions, but he would have beaten the holy hell out of the 1997 Bert Cooper.
Did you see what he did to Joe Savage who was supposed to be some legendary street fighter ? He absolutely destroyed him. Same with Richie Melito who was undefeated and built like a brick shit house.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXXWell, seriously now, as opposed to the late 90's version of Bert Cooper, you're going to call out Seldon? If you missed Cooper's "ascension" to the title, it went like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Aland what a great champion Seldon was, i once heard a terrible rumour that Seldon was wearing shorts made by pampers the night he went out on his shield when he fought Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
First, he got knocked out by Holyfield, trying to win the IBF and WBA titles.
Then, he got knocked out by Michael Moorer, trying to win the WBO title
Then he lost 3 out of 5 fights in 1993
Then he lost 2 out of 4 fights in 1994
Then he got knocked out in his only fight in 1995
Then he took 1996 off
Then he lost his first two fights in 1997.
THEN, he got a "title fight"!
His record going into his "world championship" fight was 7 wins in his last 17 fights. Of those 7 wins, one was against George Harris: Professional record 2-17 going into the Cooper fight. Another was against Joe Savage, who was making his professional debut (and last fight). Another was Mike Robinson (6-16-1 lifetime). Those, by the way, were his ONLY wins in the four years leading up to his title fight. Over four years, he wins 3 fights (against guys with a combined 8 wins in 42 fights) and loses 7, and he gets a "title fight" against Richie Melito (who?!)
So, yeah, Bruce Seldon isn't in anyone's list of top 10 heavyweight champions, but he would have beaten the holy hell out of the 1997 Bert Cooper.
"The Atlantic City Express" Bruce Seldon was a talented fast, smallish heavyweight who could box, but tired down the stretch and didn't show that much heart at times.
Bert Cooper was an aggressive bull with tons of heart and the power to KO nearly anyone.
Lets say that somehow Cooper got a shot at Seldon's title, I'd say he would be motivated enough to take it from him.
Side Note: In 2004 Seldon famously got beaten by a "man with titties"
The Seldon that Tyson fought was a Ring Magazine top-5 heavyweight. The Cooper that Foreman fought wasn't on anyone's top 10 list.
But he got beat by a Man with Titties...;DQuote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
Lobowolf, I like that you have backed your case with facts, rather than just opinion.
Put it this way, if Seldon was using Cooper as a comeback opponent AFTER the Tyson loss, Seldon would still be the bookies favourite;)
Seldon fell over every time a big puncher fought him. I think Cooper would KO him!Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXXWell, seriously now, as opposed to the late 90's version of Bert Cooper, you're going to call out Seldon? If you missed Cooper's "ascension" to the title, it went like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Aland what a great champion Seldon was, i once heard a terrible rumour that Seldon was wearing shorts made by pampers the night he went out on his shield when he fought Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
First, he got knocked out by Holyfield, trying to win the IBF and WBA titles.
Then, he got knocked out by Michael Moorer, trying to win the WBO title
Then he lost 3 out of 5 fights in 1993
Then he lost 2 out of 4 fights in 1994
Then he got knocked out in his only fight in 1995
Then he took 1996 off
Then he lost his first two fights in 1997.
THEN, he got a "title fight"!
His record going into his "world championship" fight was 7 wins in his last 17 fights. Of those 7 wins, one was against George Harris: Professional record 2-17 going into the Cooper fight. Another was against Joe Savage, who was making his professional debut (and last fight). Another was Mike Robinson (6-16-1 lifetime). Those, by the way, were his ONLY wins in the four years leading up to his title fight. Over four years, he wins 3 fights (against guys with a combined 8 wins in 42 fights) and loses 7, and he gets a "title fight" against Richie Melito (who?!)
So, yeah, Bruce Seldon isn't in anyone's list of top 10 heavyweight champions, but he would have beaten the holy hell out of the 1997 Bert Cooper.
What has Cooper got to do with this, prime Tyson beats Cooper, Holyfield, Lewis and Kilts.
Prime Tyson does beat Cooper , i dont think he beats any of the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
We will never know.
What I do know is that when Mike was training with Rooney he had the skill, desire, speed and power to trouble any fighter from any era.
Its frustrating to read the bollocks people write and spout that this fighter or that fighter would have beaten Mike because he was "mentally weak" they completely ignore the fact that those fighters would need to get Mike in to those later rounds and early in his career the only way they could do that was by holding and not putting an effort up.
Even then Mike can muster up a KO punch like when he dropped Douglas. Even with the eroded skills, had he trained as hard as he should have he would have finished him off.