Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
That's right ward would rather fight nobodies whereas froch will keep headlining fight of the year matches and go down with sugar ray Leonard.
Froch is a good boxer, not a great one, but a good one. He's not HOF material. He just isn't fast enough at the very elite level. He actually has some craftiness to him if he didn't he wouldn't have defeated Glen Johnson and he wouldn't have fought Dirrell to a stalemate. Dirrell has publicly given Froch credit after he lost to Froch. He said Froch was trickier than he appeared. I believe that. I just feel that at the elite level he's a tad bit too slow and he doesn't have enough boxing ability to make up for his lack of speed like Bernard Hopkins does.
I disagree with Shza that the division is all that weak. It's just top heavy to me and probably winds up about average in depth. Ward is undefeated at the top of the division appears to be a solid boxer with legitimate wins over Kessler, Froch, and Bika. Bute is undefeated and another solid boxer with wins over Johnson and Bika. Froch has wins over Johnson, Pascal and Dirrell. Kessler has a recent win over Froch. After that the division somewhat falls off. There is Bika, Johnson and Stieglitz.
Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I disagree with Shza that the division is all that weak. It's just top heavy to me and probably winds up about average in depth. Ward is undefeated at the top of the division appears to be a solid boxer with legitimate wins over Kessler, Froch, and Bika. Bute is undefeated and another solid boxer with wins over Johnson and Bika. Froch has wins over Johnson, Pascal and Dirrell. Kessler has a recent win over Froch. After that the division somewhat falls off. There is Bika, Johnson and Stieglitz.
I don't think we actually disagree at all. I said "mediocre" (read: average), not weak, "apart from Ward and (possibly) Bute." I agree that Froch and Kessler are better than average ("B+ fighters"); and I think Dirrell is probably better than either of them (he certainly has far more raw talent -- we'll see what he can do with it). The rest of the division is undoubtedly sub-par.
I don't mean to completely bad-mouth the division, I'm just reacting to this notion that it's one of the most talent-laden divisions in boxing, which it isn't, and never has been.
Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
That's right ward would rather fight nobodies whereas froch will keep headlining fight of the year matches and go down with sugar ray Leonard.
I don't know how I possibly missed it before, but now that you say it, it seems so obvious: Carl Froch is just like Sugar Ray Leonard.
I'm glad the Froch fans can be so objective. This has been a really constructive thread.
Thing is man, we just had a discussion an i came out as the objective one and you as more biast so this statement doesnt really ring true :)
Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
That's right ward would rather fight nobodies whereas froch will keep headlining fight of the year matches and go down with sugar ray Leonard.
I don't know how I possibly missed it before, but now that you say it, it seems so obvious: Carl Froch is just like Sugar Ray Leonard.
I'm glad the Froch fans can be so objective. This has been a really constructive thread.
Thing is man, we just had a discussion an i came out as the objective one and you as more biast so this statement doesnt really ring true :)
In your subjective opinion, you can off as objective, perhaps. "Froch would have won the Kessler fight if it was anywhere other than Denmark." "Ward definitely wouldn't have won the tournament if he had fought the same schedule as Froch." Etc. All pure speculation and implausible to boot.
Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
"Froch would have won the Kessler fight if it was anywhere other than Denmark." - was a reply to your comments about froch losing to dirrell, to highlight how that is your opinion, i then went on to say that the only thing that matters in either fight is the judges
"Ward definitely wouldn't have won the tournament if he had fought the same schedule as Froch." - i never said definately, i said i think we might have a different champ, this conversation continued to you asking me who would have beaten ward, a question i answered, and i then suggested that the odds would be against ward staying unbeaten with a string of fights like those froch had which you failed to reply to
Read your posts back, the smw division is rubbish, kessler and froch are b level fighters, cummon man, i have proved to be objective and you to be biast in this thread
Ward is a good fighter, he has beaten kessler and froch all be it both in home fixtures still very good results. He has also had some good wins over the second tier of the division, he isnt yet in the supreme class as the hype seems to be putting him
Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
"Froch would have won the Kessler fight if it was anywhere other than Denmark." - was a reply to your comments about froch losing to dirrell, to highlight how that is your opinion, i then went on to say that the only thing that matters in either fight is the judges
"Ward definitely wouldn't have won the tournament if he had fought the same schedule as Froch." - i never said definately, i said i think we might have a different champ, this conversation continued to you asking me who would have beaten ward, a question i answered, and i then suggested that the odds would be against ward staying unbeaten with a string of fights like those froch had which you failed to reply to
Read your posts back, the smw division is rubbish, kessler and froch are b level fighters, cummon man, i have proved to be objective and you to be biast in this thread
Ward is a good fighter, he has beaten kessler and froch all be it both in home fixtures still very good results. He has also had some good wins over the second tier of the division, he isnt yet in the supreme class as the hype seems to be putting him
You have stated opinions, as have I. Read your own posts back, including the one I'm responding to right now -- it's all opinion. By definition, subjective. And the word is "biased," not "biast." (Objectively true - not just my opinion.) Second time you've done that.
Just because I disagree with your subjective opinions does not transform them into objective facts or render mine biased. Your position is simply that your own opinions are always necessarily deeply and objectively true. Ironically, this is itself an example of bias. (Also the reason why arguing with you is pointless, so this will be my last post on this. I am well aware that you will jump on with more sophistry to have the last word.)
Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
It is an opinion but it is my opinion that you are biast, and there is some clear text to back up my opinion
Ward is a+, froch and kes are b level, none of froch's opponents would have beaten ward, ward would still be champ, etc etc
And then you go on to say that the froch fans are biast and cant be objective, understand my beef?
;D
Re: Froch vs Bute on April 14 in Canada, then a rematch on August 4 in Nottingham
Just so we're clear about Ward and Hopkins, it isn't that they are close in any way moreso than the average boxers, like say Ward is with Dirrell maybe, it's that he doesn't see the point in fighting Hopkins.
FIGHTHYPE \\ ANDRE WARD: "I DON'T FEEL LIKE I SHOULD BE BACKED IN A CORNER...THERE SHOULD BE MULTIPLE OPTIONS"
