I'm picking Bradley

Surely it depends how the fight goes, Titofan:confused: For what it's worth, I think Pacquiao definetly IS on the slide, but I also don't think Bradley is good enough to beat him currently and feel it's a good style for Manny. IF Bradley somehow wins, I'd imagine it would be a combination of his fighting out of his skin and Pacquiao being much worse for wear, but that's dumb to speculate on. If you watch each man of their best nights to date, Bradley doesn't have a single advantage, that's all I'm going by.

Bradley is 4/1 to win (was slightly bigger a week or two ago so obviously some dough going on him).

I thought he had a decent chance when the fight was made. However, looking back on some of his highlights changed my mind. Bradley will end up exchanging with a man faster and much harder hitting than him. Bradley's rock solid but if Pac can hurt all the big dudes he's been fighting he can hurt Bradley too. Pac by KO (an obvious pick but also a betting proposition).

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Surely it depends how the fight goes, Titofan:confused: For what it's worth, I think Pacquiao definetly IS on the slide, but I also don't think Bradley is good enough to beat him currently and feel it's a good style for Manny. IF Bradley somehow wins, I'd imagine it would be a combination of his fighting out of his skin and Pacquiao being much worse for wear, but that's dumb to speculate on. If you watch each man of their best nights to date, Bradley doesn't have a single advantage, that's all I'm going by.

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You're absolutely right, p4p. It totally depends on how the fight goes. I'm just saying... if it turns out to be a spirited scrap, with Bradley overachieving beyond what his detractors say... but Pacquaio STILL beats him convincingly... IMO the knowledgeable boxing fan will give props to both, instead of churning out the standard post-fight lines about how Bradley was crap to begin with, and Pac deserves no credit.

If it's a lousy fight... and Bradley performs even below expectations... then yes... the aforementioned lines will be well warranted.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

a few years back Pac was being criticized for not fighting Bradley, they said this was "the" other guy outside of Mayweather and Marquez that can whooped him. Now he is garbage:-\

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I don't think he's garbage, but for one this fight is at 147 and not 140, and for 2 he looked like crap against a high Casamayor, and for third he has become a serial flip flopper since joining Top Rank going back on every opinion he had about boxing prior. So it was evident from the moment he signed with Top Rank and started acting completely different that he was gonna fight Pacquiao next. So I expect him to have a 'bad night' like Clottey did anyway. I think Pac will look spectacular in beating him and everyone will scream "Pacman's back!" and all this other kind of stuff. That's all this fight really is imo. An opportunity for Pacquiao to look spectacular so they can salvage the thoughts of a mayweather fight that died down after Pacquiao's performance against Marquez and so mainstream can say "Well after this performance it was obvious he was distracted when he fought Marquez I mean look what he did to Bradley!!" It's a 'saving face' fight, nothing more nothing less.

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@Majesty if the Mayweather-Pacquiao idea has died down, it's because the fans have become disillusioned. It's still the biggest fight in combat sports. Mayweather's performance against Cotto made the fight more likely to happen in my opinion, however.

If you are alleging a conspiracy that is one thing. However, if you are making the point that Bradley has no shot, I disagree.

Size won't be factor here either. Manny is not a big welterweight. Bradley has fought at 147 before and looked good there. Bradley fought for a spot on the Olympics at 152. He'll manage 147 just fine.

Bradley is more versatile than a swarming, coming forward fighter, which I believe you are insinuating. He has a good defensive skill set and good feet work. He can also go 12 rounds.

This has the potential to be a very good fight.

Bradley is ultimately a pressure fighter who lacks power... I'm thinking it could be a bit embarrassing...

To be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if this fight went just like the Hatton fight.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Don't worry if Pacquiao wins, it will be that most likely the excuse that will be used is Bradley was a bum who knows maybe someone will say he was shot too.

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It goes both ways. If Pac loses we’ll hear from his fans “Well, he is having problems with his wife…Ariza and Roach couldn’t work together…We all saw how he got another gift decision vs JMM III because Pac is not in his prime so…Pac is getting old…” Interesting how Bob Arum tries to sell the fight saying how Tim has a heart, is hungry, is positive, hard-working, young, etc. You need more than that to win a fight, come on.

I have been saying all the time that Tim can’t punch, he’s not fighting at his weight, opens up too much when exchanging punches, slap punching won’t do the job, etc. This was another nice pick for Pac.

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Bradley is ultimately a pressure fighter who lacks power... I'm thinking it could be a bit embarrassing...

To be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if this fight went just like the Hatton fight.

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That's what I am predicting too. Remember how Tim got caught with a left in an exchange vs Holt? Imagine getting caught the same way but with a bit more power coming from Pac.

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Don't worry if Pacquiao wins, it will be that most likely the excuse that will be used is Bradley was a bum who knows maybe someone will say he was shot too.

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It goes both ways. If Pac loses we’ll hear from his fans “Well, he is having problems with his wife…Ariza and Roach couldn’t work together…We all saw how he got another gift decision vs JMM III because Pac is not in his prime so…Pac is getting old…” Interesting how Bob Arum tries to sell the fight saying how Tim has a heart, is hungry, is positive, hard-working, young, etc. You need more than that to win a fight, come on.

I have been saying all the time that Tim can’t punch, he’s not fighting at his weight, opens up too much when exchanging punches, slap punching won’t do the job, etc. This was another nice pick for Pac.

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As a Bradley fan, I resent your comments. It is your perogative to say what you want about Arum and Pacquiao, but I take issue with your criticism of Bradley. Your problem is that your hate for Arum and Pacquiao blinds you to Bradley's real chances. Bradley was picked because, other than Floyd, Top Rank has ran out of options. If you think Bradley will come forward like a Hattonesque brawler, you will be sorely dissappointed. He has much more skill than you recognize. Why is Fat Dan Rafael picking Bradley in the upset? I'll refute your points one-by-one.

1. Explain why it matters if Tim isn't a big puncher. Lumbering oafs with big punches don't beat Pacquiao. See Margarito. Boxers beat Pacquiao; Tim Bradley is a boxer. He hasn't become 28-0 because of his punching power. Is JMM a big puncher at 140 or 147? News flash: JMM hasn't knocked one person out above 135. Yet, he gave Pacquiao all he could handle.
2. Tim Bradley will be just as effective at 147 against Pacquiao as he would have been at 140. The weight is a non-issue in this fight. Bradley has fought at 147 before against a big welterweight and looked great. Bradley also fought at 152 in the amateurs in 2004. Further, Pacquiao isn't a big welterweight. Recall he fought Marquez at 144 in his last fight.
3. He opens up too much when exchanging punches? To that I contend that he smothers well. He'll be able to get inside on Pacquiao. Make the fight ugly. When was the last time you saw that type of style against Pacquiao? Agapito Sanchez in 2001. Watch that fight and tell me if a better version of Sanchez, which Bradley is, doesn't have a good shot at disrupting Pacquiao's rhythm.

What?

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Bradley is ultimately a pressure fighter who lacks power... I'm thinking it could be a bit embarrassing...

To be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if this fight went just like the Hatton fight.

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That's what I am predicting too. Remember how Tim got caught with a left in an exchange vs Holt? Imagine getting caught the same way but with a bit more power coming from Pac.

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Pacquiao's power at 147 is overrated. He has had just one knockout at 147 and that was in the twelth round against Cotto. On the flip side, Bradley's recuperative powers are second to none. He showed that in the Holt fight, an example you brought up.

Good points Rantcatrat,
Sure, I dislike Pac, his team, and Arum but it doesn’t blind me to see that Pac has what it takes to beat Tim. Let’s go through your points.

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Explain why it matters if Tim isn't a big puncher. Lumbering oafs with big punches don't beat Pacquiao. See Margarito. Boxers beat Pacquiao; Tim Bradley is a boxer. He hasn't become 28-0 because of his punching power. Is JMM a big puncher at 140 or 147? News flash: JMM hasn't knocked one person out above 135. Yet, he gave Pacquiao all he could handle.

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Good point. Difference between Tim and JMM is that JMM is a better counter puncher and can bust Manny up as we have seen in their 3 fights, which many commentators, boxing experts, and fans think he won. Tim seems to like to engage in exchanges and that spells disaster if you don’t have any kind of punching power like he does vs a guy that has power in his punches. Sure, Tim can change his plan and try to box but after seeing all 3 JMM fights, do you really think Tim would get the nod in the cards?

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Bradley also fought at 152 in the amateurs in 2004.

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Not sure if this would really change anything if this was way back in 2004. He has been fighting below that weight for a while now.

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He opens up too much when exchanging punches? To that I contend that he smothers well. He'll be able to get inside on Pacquiao. Make the fight ugly. When was the last time you saw that type of style against Pacquiao?

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Yes he does opens up too much when exchanging punches. He could make the fight ugly if he had more power in his punches but he just doesn’t. Many guys avoid exchanging punches with Manny because they know what’s coming. JMM went inside, brawled, and also exchanged here and there. The guys that have beaten Manny have boxed him: Erik Morales and JMM x 3.

Imagine what would happen if he goes for the exchange like he did with Holt and gets connected with a left that’s more powerful than Holt’s. And we know Manny’s best weapon is his left.

I really wish I was wrong as I want to see Manny lose again. What a great feeling it would be to see that Manny's and Arum's plans to pick someone they thought they could beat would backfire like it did vs JMM III but actually see Tim getting the win. But I just can't see Tim winning as much as I want him to.

Signature bet? :P

I want Tim to win because his next fight vs Floyd is much easier to make. He'll agree to anything Floyd say just for the money and the chance to take his zero.

Aw for actually winning, if he can get pac to fight on his back foot he'll negate a big part of manny's power, also manny doesn't box too well going backward. However this runs the risk of running into a big punch.

I believe he is an underdog but a very very live one.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Good points Rantcatrat,
Sure, I dislike Pac, his team, and Arum but it doesn’t blind me to see that Pac has what it takes to beat Tim. Let’s go through your points.

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Explain why it matters if Tim isn't a big puncher. Lumbering oafs with big punches don't beat Pacquiao. See Margarito. Boxers beat Pacquiao; Tim Bradley is a boxer. He hasn't become 28-0 because of his punching power. Is JMM a big puncher at 140 or 147? News flash: JMM hasn't knocked one person out above 135. Yet, he gave Pacquiao all he could handle.

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Good point. Difference between Tim and JMM is that JMM is a better counter puncher and can bust Manny up as we have seen in their 3 fights, which many commentators, boxing experts, and fans think he won. Tim seems to like to engage in exchanges and that spells disaster if you don’t have any kind of punching power like he does vs a guy that has power in his punches. Sure, Tim can change his plan and try to box but after seeing all 3 JMM fights, do you really think Tim would get the nod in the cards?

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Bradley also fought at 152 in the amateurs in 2004.

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Not sure if this would really change anything if this was way back in 2004. He has been fighting below that weight for a while now.

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He opens up too much when exchanging punches? To that I contend that he smothers well. He'll be able to get inside on Pacquiao. Make the fight ugly. When was the last time you saw that type of style against Pacquiao?

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Yes he does opens up too much when exchanging punches. He could make the fight ugly if he had more power in his punches but he just doesn’t. Many guys avoid exchanging punches with Manny because they know what’s coming. JMM went inside, brawled, and also exchanged here and there. The guys that have beaten Manny have boxed him: Erik Morales and JMM x 3.

Imagine what would happen if he goes for the exchange like he did with Holt and gets connected with a left that’s more powerful than Holt’s. And we know Manny’s best weapon is his left.

I really wish I was wrong as I want to see Manny lose again. What a great feeling it would be to see that Manny's and Arum's plans to pick someone they thought they could beat would backfire like it did vs JMM III but actually see Tim getting the win. But I just can't see Tim winning as much as I want him to.

Signature bet? :P

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It's a tough signature bet for me to take. I'd be an idiot if I didn't think the odds are against Bradley. I can't lie. Let me consider it tonight and tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Not even sure why. I just have a feeling that he's going to cause the upset.
Anybody else think this?

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Good Luck with that! I hope your not planning to put too much on the table.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Bradley is ultimately a pressure fighter who lacks power... I'm thinking it could be a bit embarrassing...

To be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if this fight went just like the Hatton fight.

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That's what I am predicting too. Remember how Tim got caught with a left in an exchange vs Holt? Imagine getting caught the same way but with a bit more power coming from Pac.

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Pacquiao's power at 147 is overrated. He has had just one knockout at 147 and that was in the twelth round against Cotto. On the flip side, Bradley's recuperative powers are second to none. He showed that in the Holt fight, an example you brought up.

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I think Pacquiao is more concerned about making an entertaining fight. I think he feels guilty if the fight is not good for making so much money. Watching him back off of Cotto is what makes me think that.

I just watched the weigh-in on HBO.

Pacquiao is even taller than against this dude who can't punch.

IMHO. Bradley presents no threat (except for the headbutt).