Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NVSemin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
It sickens me, that so many deluded fools give this guy so much credit for such fraudulent accomplishments. I have a lot of respect for REAL fighters and it just pisses me off when an actor like Bruce Lee is known to be such a great fighter but never went through the hell real fighters go through in training and in real fights.
Am I alone in this? I can't stand this nonsense with traditional martial arts and all the money they are making on cowards who never get into real fight or never even go through the hell encountered in training like a pro fighter.
You comparing apples to oranges. It is all about being special, not just successful. Bruce Lee, Sugar Ray, Ali, Tyson are SPECIAL, because they went beyond the fundamentals of the sport. For instance, regardless all success, Oscar De La Hoya is it just a very good and successful fighter, but there is nothing special about him you can associate his name with. His far less successful opponent, Ike Quatery, would be remember for Bazooka jab, which did make him special.
So how the fuck was Bruce Lee special? Because you guys are ignorant and never seen an asian guy kick like that or seen a guy ripped and fast in that era? Did you guys know, they would take frames out of Bruce Lee films to make him seem even faster with the crappy ass cameras they had back then?
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NVSemin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
It sickens me, that so many deluded fools give this guy so much credit for such fraudulent accomplishments. I have a lot of respect for REAL fighters and it just pisses me off when an actor like Bruce Lee is known to be such a great fighter but never went through the hell real fighters go through in training and in real fights.
Am I alone in this? I can't stand this nonsense with traditional martial arts and all the money they are making on cowards who never get into real fight or never even go through the hell encountered in training like a pro fighter.
You comparing apples to oranges. It is all about being special, not just successful. Bruce Lee, Sugar Ray, Ali, Tyson are SPECIAL, because they went beyond the fundamentals of the sport. For instance, regardless all success, Oscar De La Hoya is it just a very good and successful fighter, but there is nothing special about him you can associate his name with. His far less successful opponent, Ike Quatery, would be remember for Bazooka jab, which did make him special.
So how the fuck was Bruce Lee special? Because you guys are ignorant and never seen an asian guy kick like that or seen a guy ripped and fast in that era? Did you guys know, they would take frames out of Bruce Lee films to make him seem even faster with the crappy ass cameras they had back then?
I am not a big fan of Bruce Lee, but Sugar Ray and Manny are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Z-tTzYTG0
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NVSemin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NVSemin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
It sickens me, that so many deluded fools give this guy so much credit for such fraudulent accomplishments. I have a lot of respect for REAL fighters and it just pisses me off when an actor like Bruce Lee is known to be such a great fighter but never went through the hell real fighters go through in training and in real fights.
Am I alone in this? I can't stand this nonsense with traditional martial arts and all the money they are making on cowards who never get into real fight or never even go through the hell encountered in training like a pro fighter.
You comparing apples to oranges. It is all about being special, not just successful. Bruce Lee, Sugar Ray, Ali, Tyson are SPECIAL, because they went beyond the fundamentals of the sport. For instance, regardless all success, Oscar De La Hoya is it just a very good and successful fighter, but there is nothing special about him you can associate his name with. His far less successful opponent, Ike Quatery, would be remember for Bazooka jab, which did make him special.
So how the fuck was Bruce Lee special? Because you guys are ignorant and never seen an asian guy kick like that or seen a guy ripped and fast in that era? Did you guys know, they would take frames out of Bruce Lee films to make him seem even faster with the crappy ass cameras they had back then?
I am not a big fan of Bruce Lee, but Sugar Ray and Manny are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Z-tTzYTG0
I would being saying the same thing Sugar Ray as a kid before I realize how not effective kung fu is and how Bruce was a fighting genius proven only in movies and demo films.
Sugar Ray is def special, proven by a real pro record. Its sad he must of thought Bruce would whoop his ass, even though he didn't realize if he hit Bruce on his chin, Bruce would likely be on the floor asleep. This is how sad it is imo. Thanks for sharing that, that was sad. A real great fighter giving an unproven icon all the credit in the world and Bruce never had to take a punch from anybody relevant to obtain it. How many bad ass boxer did Ray take punches from to get his credit? Fuck this is sad. Like I said though I expect a lot of people to be fans of Bruce Lee, even I am, we all watch him growing up, shit I started a thread here long ago about visiting Bruce in the cemetery. Maybe I'm not getting my point across well enough on why I don't consider him a fighter. To me its sad, even Sugar Ray still drinking that coolaid....I spitted that shit out when I realize what was really effective and not.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
This can't be true! i don't want him die
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
myan
This can't be true! i don't want him die
Welcome to the forum.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
He did come out with nice expressions to explain things, but he learned them from Taoists and Zen philosophy then reshaped them to suit his combat theory.
The truth exists somewhere in between the extremes.
To rub out anything totally and say its total shit is an extreme and that attracts the opposite to it, which is also an extreme point, the two extremes support each others point of view. That is what this thread is about.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Next you will say Van Dam and Seigal can,t fight too.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Clint Eastwood isnt a real horse rider :mad: he would never measure up against a jockey.;D
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Clint Eastwood isnt a real horse rider :mad: he would never measure up against a jockey.;D
And Billy the Kid would have smoked him down in a real gunfight.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Next you will say Van Dam and Seigal can,t fight too.
They sure as hell can't act.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Im not one of those who believe in Bruce Li beats all but with him it's more about his philosophy and work ethnic that makes him so great. The guy understood shit. He didnt believe in a certain style which was why he studied all aspects of martial arts. He said be formless like water.. When water pours into a tea pot, it becomes the tea pot and when u put water into a cup, it becomes the cup..
He was clearly ahead of his time..
BUt as far as him kicking ass in a sanctioned bout or on the streets, im not totally convinced.. Ill say this though to those of you who are shitting on him.. HE'd fuck u up most likely and most of the average joes..
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Im not one of those who believe in Bruce Li beats all but with him it's more about his philosophy and work ethnic that makes him so great. The guy understood shit. He didnt believe in a certain style which was why he studied all aspects of martial arts. He said be formless like water.. When water pours into a tea pot, it becomes the tea pot and when u put water into a cup, it becomes the cup..
He was clearly ahead of his time..
BUt as far as him kicking ass in a sanctioned bout or on the streets, im not totally convinced.. Ill say this though to those of you who are shitting on him.. HE'd fuck u up most likely and most of the average joes..
I still try to give the guy credit and maintain a certain respect for him cause like I said we were all a fan of him growing up.
I would love for him to kick my ass if he was alive or one of his JKD Wing Chun Kung Fu offspring/student but they don't actually fight. When they do they don't actually win, in my personal experience these guys train a certain way but when they throwdown, the stance alone goes out the window and shit don't work. You look at a boxer or a muay thai guy, inside a ring or not, with or without rules, he is the same fighter, same stance same all throughout a fight because it is effective and without the myths or unproven fancy philosophy of many martial arts.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Too much theory, not enough practice.
Re: R.I.P Bruce Lee but....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Im not one of those who believe in Bruce Li beats all but with him it's more about his philosophy and work ethnic that makes him so great. The guy understood shit. He didnt believe in a certain style which was why he studied all aspects of martial arts. He said be formless like water.. When water pours into a tea pot, it becomes the tea pot and when u put water into a cup, it becomes the cup..
He was clearly ahead of his time..
BUt as far as him kicking ass in a sanctioned bout or on the streets, im not totally convinced.. Ill say this though to those of you who are shitting on him.. HE'd fuck u up most likely and most of the average joes..
I still try to give the guy credit and maintain a certain respect for him cause like I said we were all a fan of him growing up.
I would love for him to kick my ass if he was alive or one of his JKD Wing Chun Kung Fu offspring/student but they don't actually fight. When they do they don't actually win, in my personal experience these guys train a certain way but when they throw down, the stance alone goes out the window and shit don't work. You look at a boxer or a muay thai guy, inside a ring or not, with or without rules, he is the same fighter, same stance same all throughout a fight because it is effective and without the myths or unproven fancy philosophy of many martial arts.
I think you are right here, at least for 98% of them who come under any real pressure.
You have a bee in your bonnet over this Kungfu wing chun Bruce lee stuff.
I think most single arts have the same flaws though,but to differing extents.
Out of 200 students in a Wingchun class I once knew in the eighties anyone above average could beat 195 of them me included. Out of the 200 there were five men who anyone would have a job against on the street where ever; but they didnt stand there in the first learned fixed stance throwing chain punches cause that is the very basics.
A couple of these guys were SOG cops special operation group,very tough men and their job means they cross trained.They are the ones who take whole bike gangs down inside their own territory,(once a year they have to go in and bust them thats their itinerary.) Another was a giant of a man,black, a Maori warrior looking dude that hit so fucking hard and had a built in amour.Another was a freelance fighter of Ukraine origin an army fellow who came to train. In all seriousness these blokes used techniques that worked, inter comp full contact and at work too.They liked the art for what it was, the history etc but were more natural and mixed up what worked into their own natural style and didnt stay traditional.
So I agree with you Kung fu wont stand up to mixed martial arts neither will karate or tae kwn do or judo or shilat the list goes on.
But out of each group, each art, you have the odd exceptional bloke and a fair few techniques that do work. What Im stating isnt the opposite of what you are trying to portray here even though as you say; the thought of it annoys you somewhat.
If something works in a certain situation use it, if it doesnt work, dont.
I think it takes alot more than any taught system to make champion material in someone as they are in the top 2% of the elite in any sport,they are the ones who take on everything thats required and have some natural instincts, toughness, hard chins and good dna stock if they are lucky. Theres alot of pieces to the puzzle and if a piece is missing we have the techniques or raw guts and determination that can make up for them. I find the whole thing fascinating.
