R.I.P Bruce Lee but....

[Julius Rain]

It sickens me, that so many deluded fools give this guy so much credit for such fraudulent accomplishments. I have a lot of respect for REAL fighters and it just pisses me off when an actor like Bruce Lee is known to be such a great fighter but never went through the hell real fighters go through in training and in real fights.

Am I alone in this? I can't stand this nonsense with traditional martial arts and all the money they are making on cowards who never get into real fight or never even go through the hell encountered in training like a pro fighter.

[bradlee180]

So your problem isn't with the man himself, but with some of the crazed fans who are obsessive?
The man wasn't a professional fighter.
And those kind of irrational fans are basically idiots.

This thread needs a picture:





Anyway, the man himself must be respected.
Self-defense instructor who became an iconic action film actor that popularized combat systems worldwide, influencing literally unknown millions and generations upon generations of people, especially the Chinese.
And his concepts still hold water.
What he taught wasn't anything like his films.
What he taught was what he had determined to be functional.
His movies were just flashy showmanship, being a good entertainer.
Forget the fame aspect and film showmanship, and see this guy as a man on a journey, analyzing combat systems.

He certainly wasn't the first to say a man must be able to fight at all ranges and cross-train, but he popularized the concept greater than anybody else, and his tradition-breaking beliefs of the time only got widespread acceptance maybe 30 years after his death. Till then, boxing was the hands, judo was the throws, tae kwon do was mostly kicking, jui-jitsu for the chokes and submissions. There was even a sense of loyalty to certain systems. This guy was a Karate man, this guy was a Gung Fu man, This guy was Hapkido.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

It sickens me, that so many deluded fools give this guy so much credit for such fraudulent accomplishments. I have a lot of respect for REAL fighters and it just pisses me off when an actor like Bruce Lee is known to be such a great fighter but never went through the hell real fighters go through in training and in real fights.

Am I alone in this? I can't stand this nonsense with traditional martial arts and all the money they are making on cowards who never get into real fight or never even go through the hell encountered in training like a pro fighter.

you realise a street fight is not a pro fight with all those nice little rules to protect you right?

I've read a few articles and quotes from Chuck Norris, Gene LeBell and other tourny fighters. JKD is not a tourny martial art the way karate, boxing etc is.

It's a stripped down self defence system. It doesn't have fancy anything. It's a kick you in the balls and punch you in the face if I feel threatened and run off system. Lee has pretty much said this in his own works.
He brought in guys to train with and learn from and incorporate some moves that he considered simple and effective. He saw the need for M.A to be fit hence borrowing from boxing.

He was a great salesman of himself, fans have confused films with reality.

Saying all this, I've been able to use some of his techniques when sparring against other styles BUT if I were looking to fight in MMA I would train MMA.

[bradlee180]

Yep, Howlin' Mad Missy mentions Chuck Norris and Gene LeBell, and they respected Lee. Champion kickboxer Joe Lewis and Mike Stone respected him.

Many MMA fighters cite Bruce Lee as why they got into martial arts or that Lee was an influence. Bas Rutten. St.Pierre. Anderson Silva does a killer Lee impersonation. Rickson Gracie.
Sugar Ray Leonard and Manny Pacquiao have said Bruce Lee was a big influence.

These fighters recognized something in this man who died at 32 years old.

[Master]

Julius you need to die for what you have said. Bruce beat Chuck Norris. The end.

[Beanz]

You maybe need to educate yourself a little more about Bruce his ethos, accomplishments and achievements before writing him off. You make think that many experienced fighters on this forum and others the world over are deluded fools for admiring and taking inspiration from a man that you will not credit for what you call fraudulent achievements, but you are wrong. Although Martial arts outside of China and the East were practised as far away as the U.K long before Lee, his influence and pivotal role in increasing the western understanding of these systems is massive and unrivalled.

His training methods are really useful for so many disciplines including non combat sports
( check out the excellent " The Art of Expressing the Human Body" ) but the fact that that he is referred to as the father of MMA and respected by extremely accomplished fighters from many disciplines should indicate to you that the guy could really fight. He definitely went through hell in training to reach such a pinnacle of excellence but was never so arrogant to not absorb techniques from other fighting sports like Tae Kwondo and Boxing (check his out his Ali meeting ) in order to evolve and continually improve.

Making money is neither here nor there in establishing whether someone is a coward or not, just as being willing to fight, able to fight or willing to not fight are no hard and fast indications of bravery either.

[Julius Rain]

You maybe need to educate yourself a little more about Bruce his ethos, accomplishments and achievements before writing him off. You make think that many experienced fighters on this forum and others the world over are deluded fools for admiring and taking inspiration from a man that you will not credit for what you call fraudulent achievements, but you are wrong. Although Martial arts outside of China and the East were practised as far away as the U.K long before Lee, his influence and pivotal role in increasing the western understanding of these systems is massive and unrivalled.

His training methods are really useful for so many disciplines including non combat sports
( check out the excellent " The Art of Expressing the Human Body" ) but the fact that that he is referred to as the father of MMA and respected by extremely accomplished fighters from many disciplines should indicate to you that the guy could really fight. He definitely went through hell in training to reach such a pinnacle of excellence but was never so arrogant to not absorb techniques from other fighting sports like Tae Kwondo and Boxing (check his out his Ali meeting ) in order to evolve and continually improve.

Making money is neither here nor there in establishing whether someone is a coward or not, just as being willing to fight, able to fight or willing to not fight are no hard and fast indications of bravery either.

Father of MMA? referred by those fan of his and yes he has plenty! But fuck no Bruce Lee is not the father of MMA. Those who risk there asses in the 90's were. Those whos names are unknown to many yet over shadowed by the great Bruce Lee who didn't risk his ass at all but instead made himself look great on films and in stories by his friends. I would credit Gene LeBell more as one of the father of MMA cause by exposing Bruce to a whole new world of fighting, Bruce actually began to make himself look cool by all of a sudden kung fu has a ground game?

Bottomline is if you think Bruce Lee is a great figther, you are dissing the real great fighters of history. This is a huge in justice. Bruce was an actor. I would never mention him in the same sentence as those who actually prove their heart, skills, endurance, pain resistance, chin, etc.

Ok I'm sorry for this rant but I just can't stand these nerdy fucks who don't know shit about fighting and then say Bruce would of whoop every boxer , every mma guy. That shit just really set me off.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

You maybe need to educate yourself a little more about Bruce his ethos, accomplishments and achievements before writing him off. You make think that many experienced fighters on this forum and others the world over are deluded fools for admiring and taking inspiration from a man that you will not credit for what you call fraudulent achievements, but you are wrong. Although Martial arts outside of China and the East were practised as far away as the U.K long before Lee, his influence and pivotal role in increasing the western understanding of these systems is massive and unrivalled.

His training methods are really useful for so many disciplines including non combat sports
( check out the excellent " The Art of Expressing the Human Body" ) but the fact that that he is referred to as the father of MMA and respected by extremely accomplished fighters from many disciplines should indicate to you that the guy could really fight. He definitely went through hell in training to reach such a pinnacle of excellence but was never so arrogant to not absorb techniques from other fighting sports like Tae Kwondo and Boxing (check his out his Ali meeting ) in order to evolve and continually improve.

Making money is neither here nor there in establishing whether someone is a coward or not, just as being willing to fight, able to fight or willing to not fight are no hard and fast indications of bravery either.

Father of MMA? referred by those fan of his and yes he has plenty! But fuck no Bruce Lee is not the father of MMA. Those who risk there asses in the 90's were. Those whos names are unknown to many yet over shadowed by the great Bruce Lee who didn't risk his ass at all but instead made himself look great on films and in stories by his friends. I would credit Gene LeBell more as one of the father of MMA cause by exposing Bruce to a whole new world of fighting, Bruce actually began to make himself look cool by all of a sudden kung fu has a ground game?

Bottomline is if you think Bruce Lee is a great figther, you are dissing the real great fighters of history. This is a huge in justice. Bruce was an actor. I would never mention him in the same sentence as those who actually prove their heart, skills, endurance, pain resistance, chin, etc.

Ok I'm sorry for this rant but I just can't stand these nerdy fucks who don't know shit about fighting and then say Bruce would of whoop every boxer , every mma guy. That shit just really set me off.

no one here has claimed that you nonce

and when you've cross trained in JKD, MT, Kickboxing, Boxing, Jujitsu, MMA, Silat, Kali, we can have chat about whether JKD is a 'philosophy' or not

[Julius Rain]

Yep, Howlin' Mad Missy mentions Chuck Norris and Gene LeBell, and they respected Lee. Champion kickboxer Joe Lewis and Mike Stone respected him.

Many MMA fighters cite Bruce Lee as why they got into martial arts or that Lee was an influence. Bas Rutten. St.Pierre. Anderson Silva does a killer Lee impersonation. Rickson Gracie.
Sugar Ray Leonard and Manny Pacquiao have said Bruce Lee was a big influence.

These fighters recognized something in this man who died at 32 years old.

And Bruce never fought any of them. Joe Lewis Mike stone gene lebell even chuck norris would of all wreck bruce in a real fight. There's always been Thai champs that would of love to fight Bruce but Bruce never approach it that way, he wanted to look like a great fighter but never fought!!!! He learned from others which I respect but he taught like he was a great fighter with a long winning streak, he had none. He had a few amateur fights that you can count with one hand. And who did he fight? Nobody known. Bruce held the media title, look cool in movies and make martial arts appealing. This does not make him a great fighter.

Ofcourse many of the REAL fighters were influence by Bruce, we all grew up watching his movies! Ask Bas Rutten if he thinks Bruce would kick his ass. Bas is one of the realist dudes out there. He said the same thing I'm saying about kung fu clowns. Watch his interview with Joe Rogan. He talks about how funny kung fu people are.

Bruce Lee impersonation only shows they were a fan of him, doesn't prove Bruce is a great fighter. He was an actor.

[Master]

Yep, Howlin' Mad Missy mentions Chuck Norris and Gene LeBell, and they respected Lee. Champion kickboxer Joe Lewis and Mike Stone respected him.

Many MMA fighters cite Bruce Lee as why they got into martial arts or that Lee was an influence. Bas Rutten. St.Pierre. Anderson Silva does a killer Lee impersonation. Rickson Gracie.
Sugar Ray Leonard and Manny Pacquiao have said Bruce Lee was a big influence.

These fighters recognized something in this man who died at 32 years old.

And Bruce never fought any of them. Joe Lewis Mike stone gene lebell even chuck norris would of all wreck bruce in a real fight. There's always been Thai champs that would of love to fight Bruce but Bruce never approach it that way, he wanted to look like a great fighter but never fought!!!! He learned from others which I respect but he taught like he was a great fighter with a long winning streak, he had none. He had a few amateur fights that you can count with one hand. And who did he fight? Nobody known. Bruce held the media title, look cool in movies and make martial arts appealing. This does not make him a great fighter.

Ofcourse many of the REAL fighters were influence by Bruce, we all grew up watching his movies! Ask Bas Rutten if he thinks Bruce would kick his ass. Bas is one of the realist dudes out there. He said the same thing I'm saying about kung fu clowns. Watch his interview with Joe Rogan. He talks about how funny kung fu people are.

Bruce Lee impersonation only shows they were a fan of him, doesn't prove Bruce is a great fighter. He was an actor.

You are really beginning to upset me now.

[Julius Rain]

Yep, Howlin' Mad Missy mentions Chuck Norris and Gene LeBell, and they respected Lee. Champion kickboxer Joe Lewis and Mike Stone respected him.

Many MMA fighters cite Bruce Lee as why they got into martial arts or that Lee was an influence. Bas Rutten. St.Pierre. Anderson Silva does a killer Lee impersonation. Rickson Gracie.
Sugar Ray Leonard and Manny Pacquiao have said Bruce Lee was a big influence.

These fighters recognized something in this man who died at 32 years old.

And Bruce never fought any of them. Joe Lewis Mike stone gene lebell even chuck norris would of all wreck bruce in a real fight. There's always been Thai champs that would of love to fight Bruce but Bruce never approach it that way, he wanted to look like a great fighter but never fought!!!! He learned from others which I respect but he taught like he was a great fighter with a long winning streak, he had none. He had a few amateur fights that you can count with one hand. And who did he fight? Nobody known. Bruce held the media title, look cool in movies and make martial arts appealing. This does not make him a great fighter.

Ofcourse many of the REAL fighters were influence by Bruce, we all grew up watching his movies! Ask Bas Rutten if he thinks Bruce would kick his ass. Bas is one of the realist dudes out there. He said the same thing I'm saying about kung fu clowns. Watch his interview with Joe Rogan. He talks about how funny kung fu people are.

Bruce Lee impersonation only shows they were a fan of him, doesn't prove Bruce is a great fighter. He was an actor.

You are really beginning to upset me now.

I"m sorry bud but he was just an actor and no santa is not real either.

[Julius Rain]

It sickens me, that so many deluded fools give this guy so much credit for such fraudulent accomplishments. I have a lot of respect for REAL fighters and it just pisses me off when an actor like Bruce Lee is known to be such a great fighter but never went through the hell real fighters go through in training and in real fights.

Am I alone in this? I can't stand this nonsense with traditional martial arts and all the money they are making on cowards who never get into real fight or never even go through the hell encountered in training like a pro fighter.

you realise a street fight is not a pro fight with all those nice little rules to protect you right?

I've read a few articles and quotes from Chuck Norris, Gene LeBell and other tourny fighters. JKD is not a tourny martial art the way karate, boxing etc is.

It's a stripped down self defence system. It doesn't have fancy anything. It's a kick you in the balls and punch you in the face if I feel threatened and run off system. Lee has pretty much said this in his own works.
He brought in guys to train with and learn from and incorporate some moves that he considered simple and effective. He saw the need for M.A to be fit hence borrowing from boxing.

He was a great salesman of himself, fans have confused films with reality.

Saying all this, I've been able to use some of his techniques when sparring against other styles BUT if I were looking to fight in MMA I would train MMA.

Yes I realize that but this is exactly what kung fu people say all the time. Boxing or MMA have rules that protects them this is why I believe these guys are nerds cause rules actually make a fight harder hence making a fighter who fights within rules better with rules or without. Its like if you take a boxer out of a right or a mma out of an octagon he or she will not know how to fight because in a street there are no rules? How nerdy does that sound? A boxer or an mma guy will still be the same fighter and still have the more effective strikes.

Gene Lebell put sense into Bruce when he introduce Bruce to wrestling/ ground game. Theses guys respected Bruce and phrase him not because he was a great fighter but because he represented it. It is Bruce who teaches to swim but it is also Bruce who stayed on the shoreline and never did actually swim with these actual shark. Plus JKD is not a fighting style, Dan Inosanto, its just a philosophy.

I'm not trying to diss Bruce but I think people give him way to much credit for a guy who never got his chin check or went several rounds to test his heart or stamina. He to me was not a fighter he was an icon of traditional martial arts and I think it is becoming more known now that TMA icons are all myth and no physical proof that they were actually great fighters.

[bradlee180]

he was an icon of traditional martial arts

He was just the opposite concerning tradition.

[Andre]

Kung fu isnt what it used to be when it was held fast within China. It was a land locked art that got tested against itself only in China by quite small people.

These days alot of those techniques that worked then willnot stand up to alot of the modern mixed arts or wouldnt of stood up to some of the ancient ones from other lands back then either.

You got tough men in each gym these days that are not as well trained as some there who are not so tough men but have much more expertise.

Ive seen a guy picked off the streets out of a pool hall with little to no training just a mean all out mutherfucker offered a wad of cash and more if he won, with a jaw like iron step in against a master of many bouts in a full contact open style and the street guy won it. Its happened alot in many places.

Theres no such thing as this art is better than than that art because of this bloke or that bloke or boxing or karate.

You are lucky if a person with natural champion material great dna and a iron chin comes to train with you. (He'll make your style famous not the style its self,not these days.)

Bruce fought on the streets of Hong kong with his school friend because he was Wing Chun under Yip Man in Hong Kong he got tested by other men from other styles it was rife in those early days. So to say he never saw action or real combat is false.

Him being from that style actually is the reason the whole style of Wing Chun is split right down the middle.

There are ones who have traditional style with close tight footwork which is a bit stilted.
Others like Bruce (who Bruce trained with also) who have more range,freer footwork and also the entry technique you see being used in MMA these days is from the exact roots of where Bruce learned to think outside of a traditional style.

All that said, I think on % you could not go past Jujitsu and Hapkido to become an all round cage fighter those styles stand apart.

Even though Jon Jones gives a nod to Bruces eventual all round style of Jeet kune do, I still recon he Jon is a natural and a good example of the whole mixture.

Jon "Bones" Jones: Jeet Kune Do

[Julius Rain]

Kung fu isnt what it used to be when it was held fast within China. It was a land locked art that got tested against itself only in China by quite small people.

These days alot of those techniques that worked then willnot stand up to alot of the modern mixed arts or wouldnt of stood up to some of the ancient ones from other lands back then either.

You got tough men in each gym these days that are not as well trained as some there who are not so tough men but have much more expertise.

Ive seen a guy picked off the streets out of a pool hall with little to no training just a mean all out mutherfucker offered a wad of cash and more if he won, with a jaw like iron step in against a master of many bouts in a full contact open style and the street guy won it. Its happened alot in many places.

Theres no such thing as this art is better than than that art because of this bloke or that bloke or boxing or karate.

You are lucky if a person with natural champion material great dna and a iron chin comes to train with you. (He'll make your style famous not the style its self,not these days.)

Bruce fought on the streets of Hong kong with his school friend because he was Wing Chun under Yip Man in Hong Kong he got tested by other men from other styles it was rife in those early days. So to say he never saw action or real combat is false.

Him being from that style actually is the reason the whole style of Wing Chun is split right down the middle.

There are ones who have traditional style with close tight footwork which is a bit stilted.
Others like Bruce (who Bruce trained with also) who have more range,freer footwork and also the entry technique you see being used in MMA these days is from the exact roots of where Bruce learned to think outside of a traditional style.

All that said, I think on % you could not go past Jujitsu and Hapkido to become an all round cage fighter those styles stand apart.

Even though Jon Jones gives a nod to Bruces eventual all round style of Jeet kune do, I still recon he Jon is a natural and a good example of the whole mixture.

Jon "Bones" Jones: Jeet Kune Do

That is bullshit. It is all about effectiveness in a real fight. There are no videos of Kung Fu working in a real fight. I can pull out videos after videos of Wing Chun or other Kung Fu practicioners getting themselves hurt cause Muay Thai and Boxing are the truth when it comes to effectiveness! Kung Fu people are good talkers but look at reality, there is no such thing as a professional kung fu fighter. There are real life Muay Thai champs, Boxing Champs! I know clowns talk about rules but like I said rules make fights harder and would not take anything away from how effective a style is. Kung Fu is not effective. Bruce Lee is not a real fighter.

And you really don't know shit about MMA if you think Jon Jones is a JKD guy. Keep in mind many Mma guys will show Bruce Lee love because like I said before, we all grew up watching his movies.

Let me school you on Jon Jones, his background is wrestling. He is a good example of a wreslter who learned Muay Thai and represents the MMA world. He is not a bullshit artist like these kung fu masters are. He is exactly what a martial arts should be, in MMA you gotta continue to evolve and get better and better. Its always going to be about effectiveness and look at what is use the most by real fighters. BOXING, MUAY THAI, WRESTLING, JUJITSU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe how uneducated you people are outside of boxing!

Bruce Lee is not a fucking fighter, he fought other kung fu guys who sucked as much as he did and were not as effective as other styles. Kung fu is bullshit!!!!!!!! so was Bruce Lee!!!!!! I bet you people think Bruce Lee would of whoop Mike Tyson. You guys must think Bruce Lee is a God who would not feel pain or get put to sleep. The little fucker was an actor! You guys are fools! A lot of people have had street fights, it don't qualify them as a fighter! How am I alone on this shit!?