Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Gene Tunney more skilled than the Klitschko brothers, that's hilarious.
You really have a blind spot for old time fighters. Have you seen Gene boxer?
From the first round to the last he fought at a good pace. He was very skilled boxer. The guy had a ton of heart to get through Grebb beating. Tunney retired rich and famous what more could you ask for in a heavyweight champion.
It's like anything, man, things evolve. When Gene was champ, boxing had been around as we know it (kind of) for what, 30 years? Boxing evolved. He was great for his time, but that style is obsolete. I've seen every Gene fight put on film, you watch those guys and guys that came after them and it's no comparison.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Gene Tunney more skilled than the Klitschko brothers, that's hilarious.
You really have a blind spot for old time fighters. Have you seen Gene boxer?
From the first round to the last he fought at a good pace. He was very skilled boxer. The guy had a ton of heart to get through Grebb beating. Tunney retired rich and famous what more could you ask for in a heavyweight champion.
It's like anything, man, things evolve. When Gene was champ, boxing had been around as we know it (kind of) for what, 30 years? Boxing evolved. He was great for his time, but that style is obsolete. I've seen every Gene fight put on film, you watch those guys and guys that came after them and it's no comparison.
Lol. You think boxing started in 1990 and have no clue how good Tunney was. And again with the film shit. Don't you know how dumb that premise is? There is no film of countless things that are accepted as fact or likely.The same great fighters of past eras would be great today. And if you think anyone is going to look back at footage of Wlad and claim that he was some technical guru while at the same time dismissing Tunney then you are more delusional about past eras then I thought. This is the worst heavyweight division since John L Sullivan and the worst one that I have witnessed in 45 years. Not because I'm lost in the past but because it is period. Half of these clowns cant even fight for 5 rounds. Its pathetic.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Lol. You think boxing started in 1990 and have no clue how good Tunney was. And again with the film shit. Don't you know how dumb that premise is? There is no film of countless things that are accepted as fact or likely.The same great fighters of past eras would be great today. And if you think anyone is going to look back at footage of Wlad and claim that he was some technical guru while at the same time dismissing Tunney then you are more delusional about past eras then I thought. This is the worst heavyweight division since John L Sullivan and the worst one that I have witnessed in 45 years. Not because I'm lost in the past but because it is period. Half of these clowns cant even fight for 5 rounds. Its pathetic.
Bro all I can do is give fighters the "eye" test. He was a solid fighter, he boxed well, he was good defensively, light on his feet and tied guys up on the inside when he had to. I have no problems with Tunney, I just fail to see what he did better than Wlad in any area. He employed a style that is very outdated, in the same way that guys like Tunney would laugh at a John L Sullivan with his dumb bare-knuckle stance.
I'm a naturally skeptical person, I like forming my own opinions about things, and I don't take the opinions of so-called experts as fact. There's too many people who have this rosy view of old timers that clouds their judgement, they get really romantic over these guys who had to fight 300 times in a career. And in the end, they think it makes them smart to regurgitate what the "experts" say to constantly show people "hey, look at me, I know my boxing history". To me it's just so lame.
I appreciate guys like Tunney and Dempsey because they are pioneers who pushed the sport forward. Just like I appreciate guitarists like Mississippi John Hurt, Les Paul, Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, ect because they were guys who pushed the art forward and allowed those who came after them to build on what they had done. But I'm not going to act like their ability is the same as guitarists today. You can go on Youtube and see 14 year old kids who can play better than Jimi or EVH.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
And to your statement...
"Don't you know how dumb that premise is? There is no film of countless things that are accepted as fact or likely."
Do I really have to go into the staggering amount of bullshit that was and/or is continued to be passed in society as fact?
We still have laws and rules that are guided by the teachings of an imaginary man in the sky for fucks sakes ;D
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
And to your statement...
"Don't you know how dumb that premise is? There is no film of countless things that are accepted as fact or likely."
Do I really have to go into the staggering amount of bullshit that was and/or is continued to be passed in society as fact?
We still have laws and rules that are guided by the teachings of an imaginary man in the sky for fucks sakes ;D
Brilliant. You are like me, have to see it to believe it.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
And to your statement...
"Don't you know how dumb that premise is? There is no film of countless things that are accepted as fact or likely."
Do I really have to go into the staggering amount of bullshit that was and/or is continued to be passed in society as fact?
We still have laws and rules that are guided by the teachings of an imaginary man in the sky for fucks sakes ;D
Like I said, probably the dumbest premise in boxing. "I have to see it" Now apply that flawed belief to everything. Its inane. Its like dismissing all of human history.
I cant be bothered. Total waste of time. Every once in awhile I will call you a dufus but other then that fill your boots. You probably think Beiber is better then the Band and that the acting in Star Trek is better then To Kill a Mocking Bird.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Robinson was a different fighter at 160 then 147 but because there is no footage of him at 147 but a scratchy fight with Fusari where he looks odd so he sucked. Why he is in the top of the 147 lists is beyond me.
Why Joe Gans and Langford are rated so highly is also a puzzle along with the other 100 who remain on Atg status through the ages with little or no footage. Even those who did see them are blind.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Like I said, probably the dumbest premise in boxing. "I have to see it" Now apply that flawed belief to everything. Its inane. Its like dismissing all of human history.
I cant be bothered. Total waste of time. Every once in awhile I will call you a dufus but other then that fill your boots. You probably think Beiber is better then the Band and that the acting in Star Trek is better then To Kill a Mocking Bird.
You always get huffy, go back to the same old stock ad hominem and accuse me of not knowing anything about boxing pre-1990, you insult my judgement/taste, but you never engage and offer anything of substance to back up your opinion.
It's not an "I Have to see it" argument. We have tape on Wlad, we have tape on Tunney. Gene had some wars with Greb, but what's his most famous fight? The fight considered to be his proudest moment? The fight with Dempsey. We have that on tape.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rkwNb4IQXY
I'd love for someone to tell me what exactly he does better than Wlad. I'm not interested in statistics, records, whatever, I'd love for someone who understands the art of boxing to tell me what he does better than Wlad. He was a better mover and more agile, that's for sure, given his much smaller size. But what did he do technically that was so much better than Wlad?
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
So in essence and based on the criteria of seen little or none, by extension,
Lou Ambers
Baby Arizmendi
Abe Attell
Max Baer
Jimmy Barry
Benny Bass
Battling Battalino
Paul Berlenbach
James J. Braddock
Jack Britton
Lou Brouillard
Panama Al Brown
Newsboy Brown
Tommy Burns
Tony Canzoneri
Georges Carpentier
George (K.O.) Chaney
Kid Chocolate
Joe Choynski
James. J. Corbett
Young Corbett II
Young Corbett III
Johnny Coulon
Eugene Criqui
Les Darcy
Jack Delaney
Jack Dempsey (Nonpareil)
Jack Dempsey
Jack Dillon
Dixie Kid
George Dixon
Jim Driscoll
Johnny Dundee
Sixto Escobar
Jackie Fields
Bob Fitzsimmons
Tiger Flowers
Joe Gans
Frankie Genaro
Mike Gibbons
Tommy Gibbons
George Godfrey
Harry Greb
Young Griffo
Harry Harris
Len Harvey
Pete Herman
Leo Houck
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeannette
James J. Jeffries
Jack Johnson
(Gorilla) Jones
Rocky Kansas
Louis (Kid) Kaplan
Stanley Ketchel
Johnny Kilbane
Jake Kilrain
Frank Klaus
Fidel LaBarba
Sam Langford
George (Kid) Lavigne
Charles Ledoux
Benny Leonard
Battling Levinsky
Harry Lewis
John Henry Lewis
Ted (Kid) Lewis
Tommy Loughran
Benny Lynch
Joe Lynch
Jack McAuliffe
Charles (Kid) McCoy
Packey McFarland
Terry McGovern
Jimmy McLarnin
Sam McVey
Sammy Mandell
Freddie Miller
Billy Miske
Charley Mitchell
Pedro Montanez
Owen Moran
Memphis Pal Moore
Battling Nelson
Kid Norfolk
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Mike O'Dowd
Billy Papke
Billy Petrolle
Wesley Ramey
Willie Ritchie
Maxie Rosenbloom
Barney Ross
Jack Root
Tommy Ryan
Dave Shade
Jack Sharkey
Tom Sharkey
Jimmy Slattery
Mysterious Billy Smith
Jeff Smith
Billy Soose
Freddie Steele
Young Stribling
Charles (Bud) Taylor
Lew Tendler
Marcel Thil
Gene Tunney
Pancho Villa
(Barbados) Joe Walcott
Mickey Walker
Freddie Welsh
Jimmy Wilde
Jess Willard
Kid Williams
Harry Wills
Ad Wolgast
Midget Wolgast
Teddy Yarosz
Sammy Angott
Fred Apostoli
Henry Armstrong
Carmen Basilio
Jackie (Kid) Berg
Jimmy Bivins
Joe Brown
Charley Burley
Orlando Canizales
Miguel Canto
Jimmy Carter
Marcel Cerdan
Antonio Cervantes
Jung-Koo Chang
Billy Conn
Flash Elorde
Bob Foster
Gene Fullmer
Victor Galindez
Kid Gavilan
Joey Giardello
Humberto Gonzalez
Billy Graham
Rocky Graziano
(Fighting) Harada
Beau Jack
Lew Jenkins
Eder Jofre
Ingemar Johansson
Harold Johnson
Mark Johnson
Cocoa Kid
Ismael Laguna
Nicolino Locche
Duilio Loi
Lloyd Marshall
Joey Maxim
Brian Mitchell
Bob Montgomery
Carl (Bobo) Olson
Carlos Ortiz
Manuel Ortiz
Carlos Palomino
Laszlo Papp
Willie Pastrano
Eusebio Pedroza
Willie Pep
Sugar Ramos
Sugar Ray Robinson
Luis Rodriguez
Sandy Saddler
Vicente Saldivar
Dick Tiger
Jose Torres
Holman Williams
Ike Williams
Chalky Wright
Myung - Woo Yuh
Tony Zale
Daniel Zaragoza
All shit fighters.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Tunney was a skilled boxer, that video clip shows that! Tunney was fighting a old but still fierce Dempsey and handles him with ease. What more do you need to see?
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Either what might be termed the Klitschko era, or what might be termed the Lewis/Holyfield era.
Tyson himself was spectcular in the 80's in his own right but the other 80's opponents were lack lustre.
Apart from Foreman and Holmes who debuted at earlier times, there was nothing special about any previous HW's from a strictly performance perspective. Maybe from an historical one.
Today, more than at any other time, the fight can be ended with just a single punch, the blows are so hard.
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Either what might be termed the Klitschko era, or what might be termed the Lewis/Holyfield era.
Tyson himself was spectcular in the 80's in his own right but the other 80's opponents were lack lustre.
Apart from Foreman and Holmes who debuted at earlier times, there was nothing special about any previous HW's from a strictly performance perspective. Maybe from an historical one.
Today, more than at any other time, the fight can be ended with just a single punch, the blows are so hard.
We really missed you funny posts. Where have you been?
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Either what might be termed the Klitschko era, or what might be termed the Lewis/Holyfield era.
Tyson himself was spectcular in the 80's in his own right but the other 80's opponents were lack lustre.
Apart from Foreman and Holmes who debuted at earlier times, there was nothing special about any previous HW's from a strictly performance perspective. Maybe from an historical one.
Today, more than at any other time, the fight can be ended with just a single punch, the blows are so hard.
We really missed you funny posts. Where have you been?
I was spending too much time on boxing forums so I got banned. And now restricted! LOL
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
So in essence and based on the criteria of seen little or none, by extension,
You going to offer your expert analysis on how Tunney is better than Wlad, or are you just going to quote statistics and names at me? ;D
Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Tunney was a skilled boxer, that video clip shows that! Tunney was fighting a old but still fierce Dempsey and handles him with ease. What more do you need to see?
I don't need to see anything, I never said Tunney wasn't a skilled boxer. I'm wondering what he does better than Wlad.
