Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Nascieamento was 6.5" and undefeated and unknown, unproven, unimportant 10 kos from 13 wins.
Firtha was 6.5" and coming off taking the great Povetkin the distance.and 8 career defeats
Creme de la creme... :vd:
Thats a dangerous fight for a rising fighter.
Its not a known quantity. An old name that everyone knows what they are going to get from. He was undefeated, no one knew who he was and is a puncher.
Again. Think like a manager. Putting undefeated, big, unknown punchers against your fighter is dangerous. Ask Warren about when he put Khan in with Prescott;)
Tyson fought Nasciemento in his 14th fight. Who did Wlad fight in his 14th fight and what was their record like? In fact, same goes for Stiverne and Wilder!
Wlad fought a guy who was 84-18 and in my mind woulkd be undoubtedly better then Nasciemento. Again this is where you reading of records makes you look like a fool. First of all Nasciemento is not an unknown quantity to the matchmaker. These guys are scouted and seen that they are not risks. No promoter is going to throw their guy in with fighters they havent seen before.
In general a domestic journeyman will be far better then the "unbeaten" foreign fighter. By foreing I mean eastern european or south american who has never won out of his home country. Most of these guys records are not reliable and some of their "pro" wins come from a fight in their own gym with no crowd and no certified ref or judges. These guys pose virtually no threat to the home fighter and the promoter can pay them less then the domestic journeymen. It also glams up his fighters resume to part time fans. Oh so and so just blasted out an undefeated fighter. It was used for Joshua in his first fight, for Price against unbeated Dallas when fighters like Skelton are actually more dangerous.
I do wonder how you got your job. This along with big punches beat weak chins;D
Furys 14th opponent was unbeaten in 13 fights with 10 knockouts. Is 6,5" and was 29
Jerry Halstead, Wlads 14th opponent on the other hand who you think is more dangerous had a record of 84,18,1 with 11 of his losses coming by KO!!! Is only 6,1"!! And was 34..... Previous to fighting Wlad he lost to a cruiser weight and was proper KO'd inside 1 round by Jeremy Williams! Thats half the time it took Wlad by the way!
A cruiserweight dropped and stopped chisora in half the time it took fury to retire the used up version, what's your point? ;D
One of the few tall men Fury's fought was in experienced and beat up by a cruiserweight. What's your point?
David Haye as achieved infinitely more at world level in less fights than Fury has had, what's your point?
Remember what we said about applying the SAME standards to ALL fighters? ???
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
And if any of you fancy pricing up fights and laying me bets Ill gladly punt with you. Id be 1/25 that Id make money of anyone here over the course of the year if they are to price odds before the bookies go up :D
I just want to say I agree with you about South American and Mexican level boxers records not being equivalent but European level is the highest level prior to international, you have to admit that. Not trying to be anti-American for the fun of it, but everybody knows this is true, really.
Im European. Eastern European level fighters that English promoters bring over have recs built up from gym fights. Its well known within the domestic circuit. For example Eubanks opponent Robert Swierzbinski from Poland had a rec of 13-2 when in fact hed struggle to beat any British middleweight that fights regularly on the circuit. He wouldnt be a ticket seller so even journeymen like Dan Blackwell (rec is currently 6-40) would probably beat him. Im not talking about European level fighters Im talking about the European fighters that promoters bring over to fight prospects for 1 or 2k. These guys are generally as bad as they get but there recs look nice.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
And if any of you fancy pricing up fights and laying me bets Ill gladly punt with you. Id be 1/25 that Id make money of anyone here over the course of the year if they are to price odds before the bookies go up :D
I just want to say I agree with you about South American and Mexican level boxers records not being equivalent but European level is the highest level prior to international, you have to admit that. Not trying to be anti-American for the fun of it, but everybody knows this is true, really.
Im European. Eastern European level fighters that English promoters bring over have recs built up from gym fights. Its well known within the domestic circuit. For example Eubanks opponent Robert Swierzbinski from Poland had a rec of 13-2 when in fact hed struggle to beat any British middleweight that fights regularly on the circuit. He wouldnt be a ticket seller so even journeymen like Dan Blackwell (rec is currently 6-40) would probably beat him. Im not talking about European level fighters Im talking about the European fighters that promoters bring over to fight prospects for 1 or 2k. These guys are generally as bad as they get but there recs look nice.
I'm not real clear on your distinction here. But I think I understand.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
And if any of you fancy pricing up fights and laying me bets Ill gladly punt with you. Id be 1/25 that Id make money of anyone here over the course of the year if they are to price odds before the bookies go up :D
I just want to say I agree with you about South American and Mexican level boxers records not being equivalent but European level is the highest level prior to international, you have to admit that. Not trying to be anti-American for the fun of it, but everybody knows this is true, really.
Im European. Eastern European level fighters that English promoters bring over have recs built up from gym fights. Its well known within the domestic circuit. For example Eubanks opponent Robert Swierzbinski from Poland had a rec of 13-2 when in fact hed struggle to beat any British middleweight that fights regularly on the circuit. He wouldnt be a ticket seller so even journeymen like Dan Blackwell (rec is currently 6-40) would probably beat him. Im not talking about European level fighters Im talking about the European fighters that promoters bring over to fight prospects for 1 or 2k. These guys are generally as bad as they get but there recs look nice.
I'm not real clear on your distinction here. But I think I understand.
European level fighters are fighters going for European titles. Generally these will be guys who have had decent amateur careers and will generally have decent promoters and have fought for some form of a well known strap.
The European fighters I am talking about have little to no amateur pedigree, will have no ranking in any known organisation and will have only fought for regional/country titles against nobodies. A lot of these fights take place in the gym with another gym fighters as the ref and judges. These would generally be Czech, Slovak, Hungarian etc fighters and not the elite europeans (Russian, German etc.). Ive seen this first hand. My girlfriends Slovakian and I went to a show in her town a few years back. The main event was an unbeaten light heavy who did go onto fight for a world title last year. He was so average. Ovil McKensie would be a huge fav over him. Ignoring him, the rest of the card was woeful. Guys fighting at weights where there was no way they were that weight fighting guys that were out of shape and it was just god awful. Added to that there was about 15 people in the sports hall watching it.
Hope that makes more sense.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Nascieamento was 6.5" and undefeated and unknown, unproven, unimportant 10 kos from 13 wins.
Firtha was 6.5" and coming off taking the great Povetkin the distance.and 8 career defeats
Creme de la creme... :vd:
Thats a dangerous fight for a rising fighter.
Its not a known quantity. An old name that everyone knows what they are going to get from. He was undefeated, no one knew who he was and is a puncher.
Again. Think like a manager. Putting undefeated, big, unknown punchers against your fighter is dangerous. Ask Warren about when he put Khan in with Prescott;)
Tyson fought Nasciemento in his 14th fight. Who did Wlad fight in his 14th fight and what was their record like? In fact, same goes for Stiverne and Wilder!
Wlad fought a guy who was 84-18 and in my mind woulkd be undoubtedly better then Nasciemento. Again this is where you reading of records makes you look like a fool. First of all Nasciemento is not an unknown quantity to the matchmaker. These guys are scouted and seen that they are not risks. No promoter is going to throw their guy in with fighters they havent seen before.
In general a domestic journeyman will be far better then the "unbeaten" foreign fighter. By foreing I mean eastern european or south american who has never won out of his home country. Most of these guys records are not reliable and some of their "pro" wins come from a fight in their own gym with no crowd and no certified ref or judges. These guys pose virtually no threat to the home fighter and the promoter can pay them less then the domestic journeymen. It also glams up his fighters resume to part time fans. Oh so and so just blasted out an undefeated fighter. It was used for Joshua in his first fight, for Price against unbeated Dallas when fighters like Skelton are actually more dangerous.
I do wonder how you got your job. This along with big punches beat weak chins;D
Furys 14th opponent was unbeaten in 13 fights with 10 knockouts. Is 6,5" and was 29
Jerry Halstead, Wlads 14th opponent on the other hand who you think is more dangerous had a record of 84,18,1 with 11 of his losses coming by KO!!! Is only 6,1"!! And was 34..... Previous to fighting Wlad he lost to a cruiser weight and was proper KO'd inside 1 round by Jeremy Williams! Thats half the time it took Wlad by the way!
A cruiserweight dropped and stopped chisora in half the time it took fury to retire the used up version, what's your point? ;D
One of the few tall men Fury's fought was in experienced and beat up by a cruiserweight. What's your point?
David Haye as achieved infinitely more at world level in less fights than Fury has had, what's your point?
Remember what we said about applying the SAME standards to ALL fighters? ???
A 40 year old cruiser weight actually knocked David Haye out;D
David Haye got his world chance quicker mainly because he wasn't pissed around by someone who never really wanted to face him in the first place.
David Haye stopped Chisora yes and if you watched Furys fight, you would have seen Fury could have stopped Chisora in the first. I was in the arena and saw Chisoras legs go. Tyson didn't follow up at any point as they wanted the rounds.
Also, the fight was booed. Do you know why? It was so one sided. Fury was clearly leagues above Chisora whereas Haye had a tough time and competitive fight with Chisora.
Its eating away at you how good Fury is turning out to be. You keep randomly out the blue bringing up little remarks associated with him on various threads in reply to me.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Nascieamento was 6.5" and undefeated and unknown, unproven, unimportant 10 kos from 13 wins.
Firtha was 6.5" and coming off taking the great Povetkin the distance.and 8 career defeats
Creme de la creme... :vd:
Thats a dangerous fight for a rising fighter.
Its not a known quantity. An old name that everyone knows what they are going to get from. He was undefeated, no one knew who he was and is a puncher.
Again. Think like a manager. Putting undefeated, big, unknown punchers against your fighter is dangerous. Ask Warren about when he put Khan in with Prescott;)
Tyson fought Nasciemento in his 14th fight. Who did Wlad fight in his 14th fight and what was their record like? In fact, same goes for Stiverne and Wilder!
Wlad fought a guy who was 84-18 and in my mind woulkd be undoubtedly better then Nasciemento. Again this is where you reading of records makes you look like a fool. First of all Nasciemento is not an unknown quantity to the matchmaker. These guys are scouted and seen that they are not risks. No promoter is going to throw their guy in with fighters they havent seen before.
In general a domestic journeyman will be far better then the "unbeaten" foreign fighter. By foreing I mean eastern european or south american who has never won out of his home country. Most of these guys records are not reliable and some of their "pro" wins come from a fight in their own gym with no crowd and no certified ref or judges. These guys pose virtually no threat to the home fighter and the promoter can pay them less then the domestic journeymen. It also glams up his fighters resume to part time fans. Oh so and so just blasted out an undefeated fighter. It was used for Joshua in his first fight, for Price against unbeated Dallas when fighters like Skelton are actually more dangerous.
I do wonder how you got your job. This along with big punches beat weak chins;D
Furys 14th opponent was unbeaten in 13 fights with 10 knockouts. Is 6,5" and was 29
Jerry Halstead, Wlads 14th opponent on the other hand who you think is more dangerous had a record of 84,18,1 with 11 of his losses coming by KO!!! Is only 6,1"!! And was 34..... Previous to fighting Wlad he lost to a cruiser weight and was proper KO'd inside 1 round by Jeremy Williams! Thats half the time it took Wlad by the way!
Are you taking the piss!!?
Are you really a boxing odds compiler?
;D;D;D;D
Also, do you know what Stiverne was doing in his 14th fight? Coming back from being stopped..... Oh and Wilders opponent had 34 losses and in Wilders previous fight he was dragging himself off the floor against a complete nobody called Sconiers!
Whats Nascimentos rec outside of Brazil? Thats what his true rec is. As I stated before these guys are brought over to glam up prospects records. He wouldnt get into the top 20 of British heavyweights.
Pretty sure Danny Williams would still beat him.
Oh my god!!;D
What odds would you give for that then?;D
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
All he is pointing out Ross is that you dont apply the same criteria to judging Fury as you do other fighters, which is fair.
Fury does look like he is going to be better then most (including me) predicted but there still isnt any evidence to suggest he will be as good as you predicted. He still hasnt fought anyone I have thought would beat him
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
It's really not eating away at me... :lol:
I'll give him props when he does something.
The fight was booed and Fury took twice the time against a much smaller man... Those are facts, the fight being booed for being one sided is conjecture, Fury 'wanting rounds' is conjecture.
Fury taking longer than Haye to even fight for a title is a fact, it all being Haye's fault is conjecture and ludicrous at that. ;D
Conjecture from a Fury fanboy, especially about Fury means NOTHING compared to facts.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
One sided fights that weren't booed?
Joe Calzaghe vs Jeff Lacy
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Nascieamento was 6.5" and undefeated and unknown, unproven, unimportant 10 kos from 13 wins.
Firtha was 6.5" and coming off taking the great Povetkin the distance.and 8 career defeats
Creme de la creme... :vd:
Thats a dangerous fight for a rising fighter.
Its not a known quantity. An old name that everyone knows what they are going to get from. He was undefeated, no one knew who he was and is a puncher.
Again. Think like a manager. Putting undefeated, big, unknown punchers against your fighter is dangerous. Ask Warren about when he put Khan in with Prescott;)
Tyson fought Nasciemento in his 14th fight. Who did Wlad fight in his 14th fight and what was their record like? In fact, same goes for Stiverne and Wilder!
Wlad fought a guy who was 84-18 and in my mind woulkd be undoubtedly better then Nasciemento. Again this is where you reading of records makes you look like a fool. First of all Nasciemento is not an unknown quantity to the matchmaker. These guys are scouted and seen that they are not risks. No promoter is going to throw their guy in with fighters they havent seen before.
In general a domestic journeyman will be far better then the "unbeaten" foreign fighter. By foreing I mean eastern european or south american who has never won out of his home country. Most of these guys records are not reliable and some of their "pro" wins come from a fight in their own gym with no crowd and no certified ref or judges. These guys pose virtually no threat to the home fighter and the promoter can pay them less then the domestic journeymen. It also glams up his fighters resume to part time fans. Oh so and so just blasted out an undefeated fighter. It was used for Joshua in his first fight, for Price against unbeated Dallas when fighters like Skelton are actually more dangerous.
I do wonder how you got your job. This along with big punches beat weak chins;D
Furys 14th opponent was unbeaten in 13 fights with 10 knockouts. Is 6,5" and was 29
Jerry Halstead, Wlads 14th opponent on the other hand who you think is more dangerous had a record of 84,18,1 with 11 of his losses coming by KO!!! Is only 6,1"!! And was 34..... Previous to fighting Wlad he lost to a cruiser weight and was proper KO'd inside 1 round by Jeremy Williams! Thats half the time it took Wlad by the way!
Are you taking the piss!!?
Are you really a boxing odds compiler?
;D;D;D;D
Also, do you know what Stiverne was doing in his 14th fight? Coming back from being stopped..... Oh and Wilders opponent had 34 losses and in Wilders previous fight he was dragging himself off the floor against a complete nobody called Sconiers!
Whats Nascimentos rec outside of Brazil? Thats what his true rec is. As I stated before these guys are brought over to glam up prospects records. He wouldnt get into the top 20 of British heavyweights.
Pretty sure Danny Williams would still beat him.
Oh my god!!;D
What odds would you give for that then?;D
Actually looking at his rec again I wouldnt. I though Williams had only been losing to prospects but hes been losing to Journeymen to. But I would have Rogan, Sprott, Skelton, Darch, Turner, Carmichael, McPhilbin and Olubamiwo as favorite over him.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
All he is pointing out Ross is that you dont apply the same criteria to judging Fury as you do other fighters, which is fair.
Fury does look like he is going to be better then most (including me) predicted but there still isnt any evidence to suggest he will be as good as you predicted. He still hasnt fought anyone I have thought would beat him
Someone like, oh I dunno, a "hard puncher". Maybe one who also has "a bit of range" even LOL
Is that kinda what you were thinking Silk?? ;D
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
All he is pointing out Ross is that you dont apply the same criteria to judging Fury as you do other fighters, which is fair.
Fury does look like he is going to be better then most (including me) predicted but there still isnt any evidence to suggest he will be as good as you predicted. He still hasnt fought anyone I have thought would beat him
Someone like, oh I dunno, a "hard puncher". Maybe one who also has "a bit of range" even LOL
Is that kinda what you were thinking Silk?? ;D
Not necessarily rangey. I would fancy Haye to beat him. Id also favor the winner of Wilder v Stiverne, whoever that may be. THats the fight I really want to see Fury in.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
One sided fights that weren't booed?
Joe Calzaghe vs Jeff Lacy
Mainly because Lacy was still able to make it look remotely competitive and that he may land something at some point.
It was during the first round even that it became clear the rematch between Fury and Chisora was a complete mismatch, that Chisora couldnt do what he did against Helenius, Haye and Vitali and offer a competitive match. It was also clear all the "conjecture" on Chisora being a better fighter now he's lighter and strung some wins together like the stoppage over the amazing Scott and now having the beating of Fury was utter bullshit.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
All he is pointing out Ross is that you dont apply the same criteria to judging Fury as you do other fighters, which is fair.
Fury does look like he is going to be better then most (including me) predicted but there still isnt any evidence to suggest he will be as good as you predicted. He still hasnt fought anyone I have thought would beat him
Someone like, oh I dunno, a "hard puncher". Maybe one who also has "a bit of range" even LOL
Is that kinda what you were thinking Silk?? ;D
Not necessarily rangey. I would fancy Haye to beat him. Id also favor the winner of Wilder v Stiverne, whoever that may be. THats the fight I really want to see Fury in.
If Stiverne wins he has said he wants Fury. If this is true and it happens Fury becomes WBC champ this year;) he is not as mobile on his feet as Chisora, he doesn't have Chisoras upper body movement, or work rate. Im not even sure his chin is that good losing by stoppage to a journeyman. He only has power but if he cant even get beyond the jab he's fucked.
Re: Tyson Fury to fight Christian Hamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Nascieamento was 6.5" and undefeated and unknown, unproven, unimportant 10 kos from 13 wins.
Firtha was 6.5" and coming off taking the great Povetkin the distance.and 8 career defeats
Creme de la creme... :vd:
Thats a dangerous fight for a rising fighter.
Its not a known quantity. An old name that everyone knows what they are going to get from. He was undefeated, no one knew who he was and is a puncher.
Again. Think like a manager. Putting undefeated, big, unknown punchers against your fighter is dangerous. Ask Warren about when he put Khan in with Prescott;)
Tyson fought Nasciemento in his 14th fight. Who did Wlad fight in his 14th fight and what was their record like? In fact, same goes for Stiverne and Wilder!
Wlad fought a guy who was 84-18 and in my mind woulkd be undoubtedly better then Nasciemento. Again this is where you reading of records makes you look like a fool. First of all Nasciemento is not an unknown quantity to the matchmaker. These guys are scouted and seen that they are not risks. No promoter is going to throw their guy in with fighters they havent seen before.
In general a domestic journeyman will be far better then the "unbeaten" foreign fighter. By foreing I mean eastern european or south american who has never won out of his home country. Most of these guys records are not reliable and some of their "pro" wins come from a fight in their own gym with no crowd and no certified ref or judges. These guys pose virtually no threat to the home fighter and the promoter can pay them less then the domestic journeymen. It also glams up his fighters resume to part time fans. Oh so and so just blasted out an undefeated fighter. It was used for Joshua in his first fight, for Price against unbeated Dallas when fighters like Skelton are actually more dangerous.
I do wonder how you got your job. This along with big punches beat weak chins;D
Furys 14th opponent was unbeaten in 13 fights with 10 knockouts. Is 6,5" and was 29
Jerry Halstead, Wlads 14th opponent on the other hand who you think is more dangerous had a record of 84,18,1 with 11 of his losses coming by KO!!! Is only 6,1"!! And was 34..... Previous to fighting Wlad he lost to a cruiser weight and was proper KO'd inside 1 round by Jeremy Williams! Thats half the time it took Wlad by the way!
Are you taking the piss!!?
Are you really a boxing odds compiler?
;D;D;D;D
Also, do you know what Stiverne was doing in his 14th fight? Coming back from being stopped..... Oh and Wilders opponent had 34 losses and in Wilders previous fight he was dragging himself off the floor against a complete nobody called Sconiers!
Whats Nascimentos rec outside of Brazil? Thats what his true rec is. As I stated before these guys are brought over to glam up prospects records. He wouldnt get into the top 20 of British heavyweights.
Pretty sure Danny Williams would still beat him.
Oh my god!!;D
What odds would you give for that then?;D
Actually looking at his rec again I wouldnt. I though Williams had only been losing to prospects but hes been losing to Journeymen to. But I would have Rogan, Sprott, Skelton, Darch, Turner, Carmichael, McPhilbin and Olubamiwo as favorite over him.
Yeah, thats what I thought.....
:rolleyes:
