Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Cus Damato lives for another 10 years.
It would have been interesting, but I don't think it would have changed things that much. Tyson is a head case and he would have screwed Cus over at some point. Camille Ewald was his surrogate mother and only died a few years ago, but she didn't seem to have much influence on him.
Tyson doesn't know the meaning of loyalty and I say that as a fan! He likes to blame everyone else for his mistakes and the long history of bad behaviour, but the fact is he's not a very nice person.
Camile Ewald never had a say in Mikes career or probably had a clue what was going on. Cus made Mike and if he and Jim Jacobs had not died so early in Mikes career would King have really got a hold on Mike? I doubt it. King needed Mike to lose those influential people.
I honestly don't think it would have made any difference. Tyson is a self-destructive person and still behaved like an arsehole even when Cus was alive. He would have gone off the rails regardless.
Maybe you are right but maybe he would have kept more of the money he lost as well.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
I'd transport back to Oct 22 1926 and camp outside Harry Grebs house and convince him to put off what was supposed to be routine surgery to his nose and throat. I'd tell him that he just had the glass eye put in a month earlier and it would be best to wait. Shit I'd throw him into the time machine or pick a fight lol.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I'd transport back to Oct 22 1926 and camp outside Harry Grebs house and convince him to put off what was supposed to be routine surgery to his nose and throat. I'd tell him that he just had the glass eye put in a month earlier and it would be best to wait. Shit I'd throw him into the time machine or pick a fight lol.
I heard he was vain about his looks and it was a nose job that went wrong.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I'd transport back to Oct 22 1926 and camp outside Harry Grebs house and convince him to put off what was supposed to be routine surgery to his nose and throat. I'd tell him that he just had the glass eye put in a month earlier and it would be best to wait. Shit I'd throw him into the time machine or pick a fight lol.
I heard he was vain about his looks and it was a nose job that went wrong.
Nose and throat scraping I guess you'd call it. To many car wrecks. Tragedy for a fighter like him to go out like that. He would have never been allowed to go under that fast after his eye surgery today.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Make a certain 'Heavyweight' a Japanese Wrestler.
We need more gimmicks.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Cus Damato lives for another 10 years.
It would have been interesting, but I don't think it would have changed things that much. Tyson is a head case and he would have screwed Cus over at some point. Camille Ewald was his surrogate mother and only died a few years ago, but she didn't seem to have much influence on him.
Tyson doesn't know the meaning of loyalty and I say that as a fan! He likes to blame everyone else for his mistakes and the long history of bad behaviour, but the fact is he's not a very nice person.
Camile Ewald never had a say in Mikes career or probably had a clue what was going on. Cus made Mike and if he and Jim Jacobs had not died so early in Mikes career would King have really got a hold on Mike? I doubt it. King needed Mike to lose those influential people.
I honestly don't think it would have made any difference. Tyson is a self-destructive person and still behaved like an arsehole even when Cus was alive. He would have gone off the rails regardless.
He may have had small altercations but he would have trained properly without King giving him everything he wanted. Mike Tyson knew who was responsible for his success early but King made him believe he didnt need them and they were a chain round his neck.
You cannot compare those two periods of his career. King taking Mike and Mikes career turning to shit (compared to what it was) is more than just coincidence.
I believe had Damato and Jacobs been around to steady Mike he would have had a similar longevity to Wlad now, only with the whole world wanting to see all his fights. Holyfield would have just been a good little scrap while it lasted with Tyson winning. Bowe would have been awesome and Lewis would have faced Mike instead of McCall. Potentially Mike becomes the greatest heavy ever.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Cus Damato lives for another 10 years.
It would have been interesting, but I don't think it would have changed things that much. Tyson is a head case and he would have screwed Cus over at some point. Camille Ewald was his surrogate mother and only died a few years ago, but she didn't seem to have much influence on him.
Tyson doesn't know the meaning of loyalty and I say that as a fan! He likes to blame everyone else for his mistakes and the long history of bad behaviour, but the fact is he's not a very nice person.
Camile Ewald never had a say in Mikes career or probably had a clue what was going on. Cus made Mike and if he and Jim Jacobs had not died so early in Mikes career would King have really got a hold on Mike? I doubt it. King needed Mike to lose those influential people.
I honestly don't think it would have made any difference. Tyson is a self-destructive person and still behaved like an arsehole even when Cus was alive. He would have gone off the rails regardless.
He may have had small altercations but he would have trained properly without King giving him everything he wanted. Mike Tyson knew who was responsible for his success early but King made him believe he didnt need them and they were a chain round his neck.
You cannot compare those two periods of his career. King taking Mike and Mikes career turning to shit (compared to what it was) is more than just coincidence.
I believe had Damato and Jacobs been around to steady Mike he would have had a similar longevity to Wlad now, only with the whole world wanting to see all his fights. Holyfield would have just been a good little scrap while it lasted with Tyson winning. Bowe would have been awesome and Lewis would have faced Mike instead of McCall. Potentially Mike becomes the greatest heavy ever.
It's all ifs and buts with Mike.
The fact is, he's a fruitcake and has been in trouble his whole life, and that includes during the time he was with Cus. Even while he was in Cus' care he was constantly in trouble at school and eventually thrown out, he was also doing drugs and Teddy Atlas put a gun to his head when his wandering hands ended up on a very underage member of Teddy's family. It's really not the fairy tale people make it out to be.
The idea that Tyson would have kept himself out of trouble, lived the clean life of a dedicated athlete and reigned undefeated for a decade or more with Cus and Jacobs around is absurd. Even when he was at his peak and seemingly unbeatable, everyone who knew anything about Tyson predicted that he would self destruct and that's exactly what he did.
I'm a Tyson fan and he was truly outstanding at his best, but let's not let our adoration cloud our judgement. The man has dumped on every person who has ever been around him and pulled some unbelievably bad shit in his time. He's a pretty unpleasant individual with a long history of very serious criminal behaviour, violence towards women and is incredibly unpredictable and volatile. If he wasn't such a good fighter no one would give him the time of day.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
I think Tyson would have gone on a bit longer but he would have eventually got beat.
I think Holyfield would have taken a lot out of him, as Evander did with Bowe, and if Tyson did win the first fight if he had beaten Douglas, the fight would have been such an epic that they would have demanded a 2nd and 3rd fight which I could see Holyfield eventually winning.
Then there would be the new generation of Bowe and Lennox who at their best were top fighters. An older and aging Tyson would have eventually lost to them i think.
Tyson was showing decline in the Bruno fight.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Tyson would have gone on a bit longer but he would have eventually got beat.
I think Holyfield would have taken a lot out of him, as Evander did with Bowe, and if Tyson did win the first fight if he had beaten Douglas, the fight would have been such an epic that they would have demanded a 2nd and 3rd fight which I could see Holyfield eventually winning.
Then there would be the new generation of Bowe and Lennox who at their best were top fighters. An older and aging Tyson would have eventually lost to them i think.
Tyson was showing decline in the Bruno fight.
If Tyson still had Cus and Jacobs would he have even wasted time fighting the likes of Douglas?
They were an exceptional team and what they would have had back then is akin to Mayweather today. It would have all been big fights, big names, no risks for little reward. The Foreman fight would have happened, Holyfield, Bowe...
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Tyson would have gone on a bit longer but he would have eventually got beat.
I think Holyfield would have taken a lot out of him, as Evander did with Bowe, and if Tyson did win the first fight if he had beaten Douglas, the fight would have been such an epic that they would have demanded a 2nd and 3rd fight which I could see Holyfield eventually winning.
Then there would be the new generation of Bowe and Lennox who at their best were top fighters. An older and aging Tyson would have eventually lost to them i think.
Tyson was showing decline in the Bruno fight.
If Tyson still had Cus and Jacobs would he have even wasted time fighting the likes of Douglas?
They were an exceptional team and what they would have had back then is akin to Mayweather today. It would have all been big fights, big names, no risks for little reward. The Foreman fight would have happened, Holyfield, Bowe...
I think Tokyo was putting up big money he fought there twice. Cayton was still there then.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonesque
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Cus Damato lives for another 10 years.
It would have been interesting, but I don't think it would have changed things that much. Tyson is a head case and he would have screwed Cus over at some point. Camille Ewald was his surrogate mother and only died a few years ago, but she didn't seem to have much influence on him.
Tyson doesn't know the meaning of loyalty and I say that as a fan! He likes to blame everyone else for his mistakes and the long history of bad behaviour, but the fact is he's not a very nice person.
Camile Ewald never had a say in Mikes career or probably had a clue what was going on. Cus made Mike and if he and Jim Jacobs had not died so early in Mikes career would King have really got a hold on Mike? I doubt it. King needed Mike to lose those influential people.
I honestly don't think it would have made any difference. Tyson is a self-destructive person and still behaved like an arsehole even when Cus was alive. He would have gone off the rails regardless.
He may have had small altercations but he would have trained properly without King giving him everything he wanted. Mike Tyson knew who was responsible for his success early but King made him believe he didnt need them and they were a chain round his neck.
Oh, how King broke up his true family that happened to have been "all-white", instigated shit to Robin & Momma. As Robin told the story years later- King in her ear- when she and Mike got turned down trying to buy a house. (He had her thinking they were ripping him off) later she stated-it was a family who knew how to manage his money- as he had everything he wanted- -but they got it (for) him.
You cannot compare those two periods of his career. King taking Mike and Mikes career turning to shit (compared to what it was) is more than just coincidence.
The question we longed to know, but will never know (how long could Cus have kept Mike from self-destructing?)
I believe had Damato and Jacobs been around to steady Mike he would have had a similar longevity to Wlad now, only with the whole world wanting to see all his fights. Holyfield would have just been a good little scrap while it lasted with Tyson winning. Bowe would have been awesome and Lewis would have faced Mike instead of McCall. Potentially Mike becomes the greatest heavy ever.
This is where we disagree. I'm sure you heard the story of Lennox & Mike as kids watching fights one night- and both being told- they would fight each other- from Cus
With that being said- I am under the impression there were certain fighters Cus wouldn't have pitted him against. Forman being one, Lennox the other. The size factor -reach and style of the Lennox's, Formans and maybe even Bowe- would have been the last fights Cus' would have made for him from the tapes I've heard of Cus---even relating it a bit to the previous peekaboo dude Floyd P.
Cus knew the limitations of his fighters.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
I disagree with you about Tyson avoiding a certain style or height because he went in with big, tall fighters like Biggs and Tucker and beat them with ease.
The sparring with Lennox was Tyson winning the first day and Lennox handling Tyson the second time but Lennox was slightly older and maturer.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
What if Johnson never got up off a Ketchel right hand. No great white hope, does he even keep a fluke heavyweight championship.
Re: Change one event in boxing history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
What if Johnson never got up off a Ketchel right hand. No great white hope, does he even keep a fluke heavyweight championship.
Did Ketcehll die shortly afterwards or did he carry on fighting? If he won he would have kept the title and tried to make as much money as he could. He would never give Johnson a return.
