Tony thompson was going well at that time and would have won pretty easily against valuev on the scorecards... well depending o the judges i guess
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Tony thompson was going well at that time and would have won pretty easily against valuev on the scorecards... well depending o the judges i guess
That was after the event, you said name top 5 fighters that Haye fought and I said Valuev was one at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
So you are suggesting Valuev was better than 2 men that beat him. I know you enjoy being different but the conversation has no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOnly can give you the Klit brothers and Chagaev ahead of Valuev at the time Haye fought him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWladimir KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI said I was not going to defend Haye, so I am not going to start now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonRuiz? GTFOOH with that nonsense. He was a bum by the time Haye fought him as evidenced by his never fighting again. Or evidenced by his 4 losses in his previous 7 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNot that I want to defend Haye, but I am sure Valuev and maybe at a stretch Ruiz were top 5 in their day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Which of Valuev's losses moved him into your top 5, his loss to Chagaev or his loss to Oldyfield coming into the Haye fight? Values was a fraud, everyone knew it and that's why Haye fought him. Easy belt that Valuev shouldn't have have. He didn't beat Chagaev to get it handed back to him and he didn't beat Evan Fields.
Name 5 that were rated higher at the time?
Vitali Klitschko
Eddie Chambers
Ruslan Chagaev(who had already beaten Valuev)
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin
Denis Boytsov
Chris Arreola
And of course Evan Fields who had just beaten him.
I know you like being a pain in the ass but keep up.
Keep up? How exactly am I supposed to keep up with you changing what I said until after you change what I said? You are saying I said "name top 5 fighters that Haye fought" and I never said that. I said Wlad was the only top 5 heavyweight he ever fought. But even with you changing what I said you are wrong. Did you think Valuev was better than Haye? If not you should have Haye rated higher, if so then you don't know what you are talking about. Haye was much better because Valuev wasn't top 5 good.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat was after the event, you said name top 5 fighters that Haye fought and I said Valuev was one at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonSo you are suggesting Valuev was better than 2 men that beat him. I know you enjoy being different but the conversation has no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOnly can give you the Klit brothers and Chagaev ahead of Valuev at the time Haye fought him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWladimir KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI said I was not going to defend Haye, so I am not going to start now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonRuiz? GTFOOH with that nonsense. He was a bum by the time Haye fought him as evidenced by his never fighting again. Or evidenced by his 4 losses in his previous 7 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNot that I want to defend Haye, but I am sure Valuev and maybe at a stretch Ruiz were top 5 in their day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Which of Valuev's losses moved him into your top 5, his loss to Chagaev or his loss to Oldyfield coming into the Haye fight? Values was a fraud, everyone knew it and that's why Haye fought him. Easy belt that Valuev shouldn't have have. He didn't beat Chagaev to get it handed back to him and he didn't beat Evan Fields.
Name 5 that were rated higher at the time?
Vitali Klitschko
Eddie Chambers
Ruslan Chagaev(who had already beaten Valuev)
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin
Denis Boytsov
Chris Arreola
And of course Evan Fields who had just beaten him.
I know you like being a pain in the ass but keep up.
You really like to make a tangle of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonKeep up? How exactly am I supposed to keep up with you changing what I said until after you change what I said? You are saying I said "name top 5 fighters that Haye fought" and I never said that. I said Wlad was the only top 5 heavyweight he ever fought. But even with you changing what I said you are wrong. Did you think Valuev was better than Haye? If not you should have Haye rated higher, if so then you don't know what you are talking about. Haye was much better because Valuev wasn't top 5 good.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat was after the event, you said name top 5 fighters that Haye fought and I said Valuev was one at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonSo you are suggesting Valuev was better than 2 men that beat him. I know you enjoy being different but the conversation has no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOnly can give you the Klit brothers and Chagaev ahead of Valuev at the time Haye fought him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWladimir KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI said I was not going to defend Haye, so I am not going to start now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonRuiz? GTFOOH with that nonsense. He was a bum by the time Haye fought him as evidenced by his never fighting again. Or evidenced by his 4 losses in his previous 7 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNot that I want to defend Haye, but I am sure Valuev and maybe at a stretch Ruiz were top 5 in their day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Which of Valuev's losses moved him into your top 5, his loss to Chagaev or his loss to Oldyfield coming into the Haye fight? Values was a fraud, everyone knew it and that's why Haye fought him. Easy belt that Valuev shouldn't have have. He didn't beat Chagaev to get it handed back to him and he didn't beat Evan Fields.
Name 5 that were rated higher at the time?
Vitali Klitschko
Eddie Chambers
Ruslan Chagaev(who had already beaten Valuev)
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin
Denis Boytsov
Chris Arreola
And of course Evan Fields who had just beaten him.
I know you like being a pain in the ass but keep up.
Obviously Haye was better than Valuev because he beat him but before he beat him valuev must have been a top 5 fighter at the time, not in retrospect.
I don't think that Valuev would have been ranked higher than Haye at the time, wasn't Haye expected to win that fight quite easily, Valuev just gained a lot of publicity because of the freak show aspect of the fight, it was a while back now so I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou really like to make a tangle of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonKeep up? How exactly am I supposed to keep up with you changing what I said until after you change what I said? You are saying I said "name top 5 fighters that Haye fought" and I never said that. I said Wlad was the only top 5 heavyweight he ever fought. But even with you changing what I said you are wrong. Did you think Valuev was better than Haye? If not you should have Haye rated higher, if so then you don't know what you are talking about. Haye was much better because Valuev wasn't top 5 good.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat was after the event, you said name top 5 fighters that Haye fought and I said Valuev was one at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonSo you are suggesting Valuev was better than 2 men that beat him. I know you enjoy being different but the conversation has no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOnly can give you the Klit brothers and Chagaev ahead of Valuev at the time Haye fought him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWladimir KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI said I was not going to defend Haye, so I am not going to start now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonRuiz? GTFOOH with that nonsense. He was a bum by the time Haye fought him as evidenced by his never fighting again. Or evidenced by his 4 losses in his previous 7 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNot that I want to defend Haye, but I am sure Valuev and maybe at a stretch Ruiz were top 5 in their day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Which of Valuev's losses moved him into your top 5, his loss to Chagaev or his loss to Oldyfield coming into the Haye fight? Values was a fraud, everyone knew it and that's why Haye fought him. Easy belt that Valuev shouldn't have have. He didn't beat Chagaev to get it handed back to him and he didn't beat Evan Fields.
Name 5 that were rated higher at the time?
Vitali Klitschko
Eddie Chambers
Ruslan Chagaev(who had already beaten Valuev)
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin
Denis Boytsov
Chris Arreola
And of course Evan Fields who had just beaten him.
I know you like being a pain in the ass but keep up.
Obviously Haye was better than Valuev because he beat him but before he beat him valuev must have been a top 5 fighter at the time, not in retrospect.
I think that at the point of that point I actually quite liked David Haye, you know before he turned into an absolute freak show himself and became quite possibly the biggest cunt in the game
You're the one making a tangle. Changing words. Not answering simple questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou really like to make a tangle of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonKeep up? How exactly am I supposed to keep up with you changing what I said until after you change what I said? You are saying I said "name top 5 fighters that Haye fought" and I never said that. I said Wlad was the only top 5 heavyweight he ever fought. But even with you changing what I said you are wrong. Did you think Valuev was better than Haye? If not you should have Haye rated higher, if so then you don't know what you are talking about. Haye was much better because Valuev wasn't top 5 good.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat was after the event, you said name top 5 fighters that Haye fought and I said Valuev was one at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonSo you are suggesting Valuev was better than 2 men that beat him. I know you enjoy being different but the conversation has no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOnly can give you the Klit brothers and Chagaev ahead of Valuev at the time Haye fought him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWladimir KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI said I was not going to defend Haye, so I am not going to start now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonRuiz? GTFOOH with that nonsense. He was a bum by the time Haye fought him as evidenced by his never fighting again. Or evidenced by his 4 losses in his previous 7 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNot that I want to defend Haye, but I am sure Valuev and maybe at a stretch Ruiz were top 5 in their day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Which of Valuev's losses moved him into your top 5, his loss to Chagaev or his loss to Oldyfield coming into the Haye fight? Values was a fraud, everyone knew it and that's why Haye fought him. Easy belt that Valuev shouldn't have have. He didn't beat Chagaev to get it handed back to him and he didn't beat Evan Fields.
Name 5 that were rated higher at the time?
Vitali Klitschko
Eddie Chambers
Ruslan Chagaev(who had already beaten Valuev)
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin
Denis Boytsov
Chris Arreola
And of course Evan Fields who had just beaten him.
I know you like being a pain in the ass but keep up.
Obviously Haye was better than Valuev because he beat him but before he beat him valuev must have been a top 5 fighter at the time, not in retrospect.
It isn't about retrospective if you knew beforehand. I knew Haye would win. Everyone I know knew Haye would win. Did you or did you not know Haye would win?
I'm trying to type very slow so you can get it. If you knew Haye would win as everyone else did you should rate Haye higher as everyone else did
At that time and before
Knowing and doing are 2 totally different things. Everyone knew Tyson would beat Douglas.
Not sure but I think most knew Haye would beat Bellew.
Fine, let's forget that Haye was clearly better than Valuev.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
You still have the obvious 2 of Wlad and Vitali. You still have Povetkin, you still have Chambers, you still have Chagaev who already beat him and Evan Fields who already beat him.
That's still 6 to have above Valuev, and that's not even considering other better fighters. Valuev never did anything because he wasn't any good. His biggest accomplishment is beating Ruiz twice in the middle of a stretch where Ruiz won 3 of 8 fights. And he couldn't even do that convincingly.
I'm not arguing that Value was top 5. I'm just saying that's why they fight the fights.
This is how messed up it is trying to get the simplest point across to Master, nobody is saying Valuev is any good. He won't even say it but he wants to at the same time use it as evidence that Haye did fight good heavyweights. He and John Ruiz who had won 3 out 7 fights coming into the Haye fight. None of it makes any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
I do not want to labour this point Ronnie. All I am saying is that Valuev as a champion would automatically rated and have been ranked in the top 5 at the time. Yes he was very poor and protected by Don King which is why he kept getting shots at that particular trinket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThis is how messed up it is trying to get the simplest point across to Master, nobody is saying Valuev is any good. He won't even say it but he wants to at the same time use it as evidence that Haye did fight good heavyweights. He and John Ruiz who had won 3 out 7 fights coming into the Haye fight. None of it makes any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
When Haye fought Valuev it was not in the UK and Holyfield did not get the decision. The same could have easily happened for Haye.
So Pulev is going to give his earnings from the fight to charity "if he wins"
Just goes to show a complete lack of confidence, Chisora gave 20k to charity when Haye beat him.
So you admit he's crap but give him a faulty rating and then judge him by that faulty rating rather than judging him by his actual quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI do not want to labour this point Ronnie. All I am saying is that Valuev as a champion would automatically rated and have been ranked in the top 5 at the time. Yes he was very poor and protected by Don King which is why he kept getting shots at that particular trinket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThis is how messed up it is trying to get the simplest point across to Master, nobody is saying Valuev is any good. He won't even say it but he wants to at the same time use it as evidence that Haye did fight good heavyweights. He and John Ruiz who had won 3 out 7 fights coming into the Haye fight. None of it makes any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
When Haye fought Valuev it was not in the UK and Holyfield did not get the decision. The same could have easily happened for Haye.
The things you say make absolutely no sense man. You should judge him in real terms. Reality is a very simple thing. If you would stay in it these conversations wouldn't be so complicated.
It is not too complicated. An example could be Parker who happens to hold WBO title. I believe he is worse than Pulev or Stiverne but because he has a title is rated higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonSo you admit he's crap but give him a faulty rating and then judge him by that faulty rating rather than judging him by his actual quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI do not want to labour this point Ronnie. All I am saying is that Valuev as a champion would automatically rated and have been ranked in the top 5 at the time. Yes he was very poor and protected by Don King which is why he kept getting shots at that particular trinket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThis is how messed up it is trying to get the simplest point across to Master, nobody is saying Valuev is any good. He won't even say it but he wants to at the same time use it as evidence that Haye did fight good heavyweights. He and John Ruiz who had won 3 out 7 fights coming into the Haye fight. None of it makes any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
When Haye fought Valuev it was not in the UK and Holyfield did not get the decision. The same could have easily happened for Haye.
The things you say make absolutely no sense man. You should judge him in real terms. Reality is a very simple thing. If you would stay in it these conversations wouldn't be so complicated.