:vd:
How is that even an argument, Bill?
Never mind.....
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:vd:
How is that even an argument, Bill?
Never mind.....
TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
It takes a deep intellect to understand the 'angle' on that one.
I believe that post is 'too deep' for you.
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"Of course I played the 'dumb blonde' in all those movies. They see a pretty blonde,
and automatically assume that I'm ditzy, and a 'Fucking' moron."
Judy Holliday
IQ .... '172' .. Very Superior Intelligence
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=JN.995...d=1.9&rs=0&p=0
Tito-Fan,Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I don't think we're on opposite sides here. I've never considered him to be a hero for anything regarding his decision to dodge the draft. I do think, however, that it took guts for standing up to the establishment in that way, especially considering how much he stood to lose. It would've been easier for him to just go along with it, especially knowing (like HATER Bill said) that he wasn't going to be put in the front lines or anything like that.
But forget all that, for a moment. Think about the focus his actions put on the racial issues in America during those times. Think about all those blacks that said "Damn... he's right. Why should we go fight the Vietcong? They never called us niggers." Think about the whites that must've thought "Hmm.... maybe he's got a point there. We're asking them to put their lives on the line, but here in America we treat them like shit."
Bottom line is... many of us are glad he made the decision he made. And it cost him, too. Three prime years of his professional career. Think how much more he could've added to his professional legacy.
You're 'brown-nosing' when you don't have to.
It's not very becoming sir.
You're taking Cassius Clay's views from 1966/1967 {Age; 25}. This from a guy who
was evaluated as having 'borderline mental retardation'.
Now that is 'Fucking' scary.
Ok so first I post quote on Ali saying he had no qualms against Viet Cong 'cause they never called him "nigger."
You respond by posting picture of white soldier killed in Vietnam and asking if Viet Cong ever called him "nigger."
Asinine point and completely off kilter.
It's like saying OJ Simpson was innocent 'cause he played for the Buffalo Bills.
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/fo...ejudymoron.jpg
Then, you equate my telling Beanflicker that I'm not pushing the "Ali is a hero" agenda for having dodged the draft.... and you equate that with brownnosing.
You bring up Ali's low IQ scores once again... as if that has anything to do with your bullshit agenda about him being a coward.
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/52221531.jpg
Finally.... you're likened Ali to Hitler.... been glad about his Parkinson's disease.... and just generally made a fool of yourself at every available opportunity on this forum and have gotten people laughing at you every time you make a post. The fact that you're still here speaks volumes about the patience of the mods in this forum.
So in summary.....
https://mikeytherhino.files.wordpres...8/06/moron.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomAre you referring to,Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Former Vice President - Dick Cheney
Bill Clinton ran to England to avoid Vietnam He wasn't called yellow & cowardly You made him President of the United States The Commander in Chief of US Forces.
Ali stayed right here & faced whatever they threw at him how could that be called cowardly?? George W Bush dodged it too
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomAre you referring to,Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Former Vice President - Dick Cheney
Bill Clinton ran to England to avoid Vietnam He wasn't called yellow & cowardly You made him President of the United States The Commander in Chief of US Forces.
Ali stayed right here & faced whatever they threw at him how could that be called cowardly?? George W Bush dodged it too
Thank you for pointing out they are all cowards , now if you like you can start an individual thread for each of them and we can voice our opinions.
Not many for obvious reasons, Bill you prat.
1967
Carl Walker, Assistant District Attorney "United States', who helped prosecute Cassius Clay.
Mr. Carl Walker {who was black}, stated,
"Cassius Clay changed his story several times. First it was because of his religious beliefs.
Then it was because he was a good citizen in America, and was an honorable man. Then he
wanted a deferment because he had several upcoming Championship bouts lined up."
"Then it was the Muslim faith. Then he claimed to be a Minister."
"I didn't believe him at all. But I didn't make the Decision, I only presented a case. The
'Jury' of 6 men and 6 women found him guilty."
"That is our system, good, bad or indifferent. Did I make my points, Yes I think I did."
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"Yes, you did make a 'point'. Two of them are good enough for me"
Kim Novak
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...ROAa10ZcNVMOhg
The system was indifferent then. Ali won the case eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
I hear you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Cassius Clay called Archie Moore all kinds of insulting names and openly mocked him. Moore was 48 and clay was 24 then.
Archie Moore was perhaps the most kind, interesting. entrepreneurial, good hearted, humble man boxing has ever seen. who in their right mind would want to disrespect the great iconic Archie Moore?
Where was clays respect for his elders?
If you really 'Peel the Onion',Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Most will realize that Cassius Clay was an 'ingrate'.
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"I never thought much of Cassius Clay. After 5-Minutes, I found him to be dull and quite boring."
Hedy Lamar
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.OS7O...w&pid=15.1&P=0
Wait Wait Wait you guys are calling a person a coward for not going to some bull shit war when they said Ali was to dumb to join the army the first go around and when he is champ they draft him. Say what you want but Ali felt the war was against what he believed in and served his time wtf is cowardly about that nothing. You know what i call a person who goes to war for a country who treats them like they are low class i call them a fucking drone and nothing noble about that. Ali clowned people with Frazier i am not so sure how much was real and how much was bullshit. Patterson got what he got he was being disrespectful to Ali and he got it right back as for Liston fucker was gangster who was a mobster so i could careless talking shit on that guy kill you in a heart beat and not think about. Anyone one saying coward must have some balls what would you do if you had to go to war for a country that hated you and it was against what you believed in tell me everyone calling him a coward what would you do. Also as for you bill got to tell me did Ali fuck your girlfriend or wife or something did you walk in on it or what got to know.
What else you going to bring up? Ali trained with Archie Moore and had a lot of respect for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
THAT IS PURE bull. Archie Moore gave an interview to Howard Cosell saying in HIS gym where clay trained, they had rules that all boxers pitched in and helped clean up and cook and wash dishes in the kitchen. He said cassius clay was too arrogant and refused to help around the gym, refused to clean up and wash dishes, etc.. AND THAT HE DIDNT LIKE CLAY'S ATTITUDE. @Master have you not heard all these things about clay? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat else you going to bring up? Ali trained with Archie Moore and had a lot of respect for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Brock is 100% right, George Plimpton went into that in his book "Shadow Box", which is a great read for any boxing fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustTHAT IS PURE bull. Archie Moore gave an interview to Howard Cosell saying in HIS gym where clay trained, they had rules that all boxers pitched in and helped clean up and cook and wash dishes in the kitchen. He said cassius clay was too arrogant and refused to help around the gym, refused to clean up and wash dishes, etc.. AND THAT HE DIDNT LIKE CLAY'S ATTITUDE. @Master have you not heard all these things about clay? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat else you going to bring up? Ali trained with Archie Moore and had a lot of respect for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Archie Moore
"Cassius has talent, no doubt about it. But he's all about himself, and does not offer
a helping hand, not only to me but the other fine boxers here."
"That shows me that he has no gratitude."
"Look, the 'Faversham Group' asked me to take Clay in. I didn't want this kid here in the
first place. I don't have time to 'Baby Sit' him, and tell him that he's good. I'm trying to
help out '10' other kids here."
"Yes he's 'selfish' . I can't just keep telling him that he's good every hour."
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"What's wrong with that. I needed be told everyday that I was 'beautiful'. At least '5' times an hour."
Loni Anderson
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...HXl34PgoFkXy4i
I have read Ali's book where he learnt many positive skills training with Moore and he always had a lot of respect for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerBrock is 100% right, George Plimpton went into that in his book "Shadow Box", which is a great read for any boxing fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustTHAT IS PURE bull. Archie Moore gave an interview to Howard Cosell saying in HIS gym where clay trained, they had rules that all boxers pitched in and helped clean up and cook and wash dishes in the kitchen. He said cassius clay was too arrogant and refused to help around the gym, refused to clean up and wash dishes, etc.. AND THAT HE DIDNT LIKE CLAY'S ATTITUDE. @Master have you not heard all these things about clay? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat else you going to bring up? Ali trained with Archie Moore and had a lot of respect for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Master sometimes dude you have to face things even when they don't have a nice "positive" candy-coated facade. Are we saying Ali was the Devil? HELL NO!!! (even though he said some of US were the Devil!) But--------- the guy was a PRICK to alot of people for quite a long time. Quite alot of his "own" people as well. Which doesn't JIVE with his "saintly" wanna-be persona.
"I'm GOD! I'm GOD! You must bow to ME! Muhammad Ali is GOD!"
JOE FRAZIER: "WELL, GOD, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE GETTING YOUR ASS KICKED TONIGHT!"
MOOOMOOOOOMOOOOOMOOOOOOOOOOMOOOOOOO-HAHAHA
Smokin' Joe Frazier, a decent man indeed.
Attachment 3580
I never said he was a saint I just said he is the best heavyweight champion there ever will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
See your love of Clay blinds you , that is a ridiculous statement.
All athletic achievements have improved over time , in boxing its the same.
Unlike SRR , Ali couldn't fight inside , wasn't a big puncher , so logic applies that he wouldn't have been able to overcome a guy who is all those things and 17stone+ and 6'5+.
If you really think that Master is anything at all like that then you don't really know him at all. The whole argument mounted by yourself, Bill and the anti-Ali brigade is quite laughable. First you have to create a false premise which you all seem to have done quite successfully, almost enough to delude yourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
That premise is that anyone not subscribing to your view is either simple, naive or just plain not sophisticated enough to understand that Ali was not the great human being and boxer he purported to be, and most importantly certainly not the greatest.
It's weird but it's the kind of argument that PC people use when they don't think other people can use common sense or judgement when talking about or to people different to themselves. The point is that most if not all of the posters here on what is after all a boxing forum are more than aware of Ali's racism, intolerance, and all the flaws in both his boxing ability and personality. We just don't feel the need to go on and on about it endlessly. Now before you pull out the old chestnut about not having to partake in a thread when you find that it is just treading over old ground, indulge me for one moment and imagine what that argument sounds surprisingly familiar to ? The same PC naysayers who will not tolerate an alternative opinion or a word that they deem offensive being used.
The one disturbing recurring theme in all these arguments for me personally is the insistence in using the name Clay. Yes Ali was an offensive, arrogant man who treated fighters like Joe Frazier (a fighter and man I had huge respect for) like crap, but he is currently a suffering old man nearing the end of his life. He chose to change his name and that was a decision that was his to make. However deluded and hoodwinked he was by a others HE changed it. What gives someone else the right to call him by a name that he discarded and found oppressive ? I know that you are not a racist but for people who do not know you, that is exactly what it comes across as. Like an insistence that he has no right to even choose what to call himself. He may have no right to call himself the greatest, and certainly not to call himself God, but that now seems to have turned for many into not even enough rights to call himself Muhammad Ali. A name shared with thousands if not more and yet one that everyone now knows, refers to him.
The man had a steely minded determination and bravery that elevated his less than perfect boxing ability and allowed him to survive countless wars. He didn't just turn up he understood that entertainment was a huge part of the fight game and he mastered that aspect to make sure his name went down in history. Not his fathers name or the simple Christian name Clay. The name Muhammad Ali.
I have always stated that,
Cassius Clay was neither 'a coward' or 'yellow'.
What I did state, was that he was 'a fraud'.
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"Where is that Cassius Clay when you need him."
Sean Yseult
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...X9zV2JPa0bLvZg
Clay was an entertainer as all boxers are , and as with all other boxers people like some and dislike others. I am sure if you posted a thread about Cotto for an example , lots will love him lots will respect him and some will dislike him.
I personally do not like Clay and don't think he was the Greatest boxer of all time , however it is evident some here disagree, so lets just finish by saying he was a boxer who entertained , love him or hate him.
Good Stuff,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Cassius Clay was an entertainer for sure. But he stole is 'act' from >
Gorgeous George
"Cassius, try to be the biggest 'Cock-Sucker' out there. People will pay 'big money' to see somebody
shut your mouth. The public loves to see a 'Cock-Sucker' get clocked."
True Story > They met in the Summer of 1961, on a Live Radio Broadcast.
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.nQOC...g&pid=15.1&P=0
Stole, borrowed or improved are all the same thing.
Fake name fake act , you couldn't make this up.
No Way,Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Once a Thief, always a Thief.
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"Talk about a 'thief'. My best friend {Elizabeth Taylor} was 'Fucking' my husband {Eddie Fisher}
in my own bed. Right here in this bed."
"Once a 'fucking thief', always a 'fucking thief'. That's the way I see it"
Debbie Reynolds
http://tiviseries.mobi/wp-content/up...pictures-1.jpg
Gorgeous George must have stole his act from someone one else Bill.
says Farrah Fawcett
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/200...ah_fawcett.jpg
lil' whores are better than cassius Pistachio clay
Attachment 3581
Attachment 3582
i dare any man to kick one of these babes out of bed and ask cassius to get under the covers with him
@Bill Paxtom
@Master
@p4pking
I like the black girl, first one is meh. You're right that I'd still pick her over Cassius though, thanks for the mention/vote of confidence brock.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Are you aware,Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
That Farrah Fawcett-Majors had a 'flatulence' problem.
Her nickname on the 'Charliie's Angels' set was ............... Fart Bag
Farrah Fawcett had great nipples that is all I care about.
Cassius Pistachius Fascist
ate Left Hooks like there was no 'tomorrow' @Bill Paxtom
He 'ate' those hooks all night on ~March 8, 1971~
.....even though he was claiming all night that he was 'God'.
Frazier ^^ruined^^ Clay that night in MSG, he was 'never' the ~same~ @Master
It just shows you how great Ali was to achieve all the things he did after the fight 1971. What an amazing fighter and champion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
He was free to eat all the left hooks he wanted...
... just not in the white's only section....
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/C...e-5ddd677e405d
White people be TRIPPIN back then... :-\
Come on now 'Bean-Pruner',Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
He was free to eat all the left hooks he wanted...
... just not in the white's only section....
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/C...e-5ddd677e405d
White people be TRIPPIN back then... :-\
Not every establishment was like that. What maybe 15% down in the South.
In the Northeast, everything was equal.
Cassius Clay was 'exaggerating' as usual, to make a case to make him look good.
Damn, he was a 'middle-class' Suburbanite from Louisville, Kentucky.
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"Damn. I'm the new Sheriff of Rock Ridge. You 'whiteys' all better stay in line."
Sheriff Bart
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...LDYZCaiy-K1zh9
He still owns many in this thread, though debilitated and on his last legs ;D. They can not even bring themselves to call him anything but Clay. Pathetic really, that a man who is supposedly so over hyped can have so much influence and generate so many threads from people who can take any solace from refusing to call him Ali. I will love Joe Frazier until I join him in the ground, but I have no problem calling the Guy by a name he chose. Muhammad Ali. See it wasn't that hard, and it did not automatically enroll me into his fan club.