Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by amat
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Originally Posted by Majesty
amat I really really respect your opinion on this site and got a lot of respect for you as a poster on this site.  But there is no way the DeMarcus Corley fight was close.  And if you want to play the aces Judah fought that fight with a broken left hand after knocking Corley down(according to post fight reports)  so he beat Corley with basically one hand, and still that fight wasn't close.  Not in my opinion.  And I respect your opinion of the fight as close, but it wasn't and it wasnt anywhere near as close as the Pineda one. 
And I remember not too long ago I watched a fight on I think Showtime, and it was Cory Spinks going to make his splash against the same fighter Rafael Pineda and it was my first time seeing him, they did a whole thing about his father and etc and then I watched him i nthe ring he looked absolutely horrid against Pineda.   And looking at his record on boxrec after that fight he only fought overseas before he came back to beat Mayorga.  Is that right ???   I also think Pineda in his prime even made Pernell Whitaker look bad.  So even past his best he could probably do that to many good fighters.  Nobody is calling Zab great, but to say he isn't good is just taking it too far.
The fight was close imo.  It wasn't a win for Judah but it definitely wasn't what he should have done.  And he let Corley take almost all the middle rounds.  Judah didn't win by more then a couple rounds and he didn't look good.  Definitely didn't look like someone who deserved a rematch with Tszyu...
And I haven't seen the Spinks fight with Pineda but Whitaker outclassed Pineda.  It was his last fight at 140 and his first fight before the first McGirt fight.  Whitaker didn't lose a round.  I watched that fight just a couple months ago, my grandpa has it on tape.  Actually it was the night of the first Peter - Toney fight so a little longer then that.  Whitaker schooled him.
And I really don't think Judah is that good.  He's not a good inside fighter.  He has a terrible defense.  He doesn't have a very good head on his shoulders.  He doesn't have that good of balance and he has a glass chin. 
Basically, he has blinding speed and power from the outside.  He's a one dimensional fighter.  Sure his speed and power can be exciting and they can do in a lot of fighters...but he doesn't have to much beyond that in order to be a world class fighter. 
Look if blinding speed and power even got him this far in the fighting game he must have something else too alright man?  
If he never won a world title or never beat Cory Spinks I'd be with you on that boat, but he has to have more then that if he won those titles.  
I believe you on the Pineda fight with Whitalker, but wasnt it right after that fight he knocked out Spinks???  
Zab's looked bad before but I remember how good he looked in the Rivera fight.
And I think Zab is a world class fighter he's only lost to the world class.  And I know everyone brings up the Baldomir fight, but lets not forget a fighter called James Toney(a fighter greater then Zab will ever be) losing to Drake Thadzki?  Thats all I'm saying alright?  
All it takes is one good victory to put him in the mix.   Zab's biggest problem has been his discipline.  There's no mistake he has the ability.  It's his mind and his compusure.  
On terms of ability Zab has some of the best gifts of any boxer out there second to Mayweather, he has the tools, he just doesn't use them because his mind isn't there.  It's not an excuse it's a fact.  And I'm not going to say any if statements with Zab because facts are he has sometimes othertimes he hasn't and nothing can change that.  And I wont say "if Zab comes in with the Floyd mentality he'll beat Cotto"  All I'm going to say is that Zab can beat Cotto and Cotto won't walk through him regardless.   Thats it.
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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
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Originally Posted by Majesty
CutMeMick all i've seen you do in this topic is try to downgrade Zab.  But I ask you this question.
IS Zab the best opponent Cotto has fought ???
Then you didn't look closely......
I clearly said Zabs fought the better oppositon. Hes a former Champ. and has the credentials.
BUT
Hes lost back to back, and to be honest fuck! knows how his fight against this Israel guy is gonna turn out....  :(
So it makes sense for Cotto to fight someone who ONCE was at top,
then to fight someone who IS currently at top?
Not to me.....
Margarito ISN'T currently at the top.  To fight someone at the top Cotto would have to fight Mayweather who's fighting.  So then he has to fight the people a step below and Paul Williams is fighting Margarito right now and Shane is probably gonna have one more fight at 147 before he fights top tier again. So then who's left for Cotto to fight at 147 ???  Urkal? ::**  
See what I mean?
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by boxman
As exposed and as beaten as Judah is he is the closest thing to a great fighter that Cotto has gotten. It's about time he fights atleast a some what respected fighter. I was begining to think that he was gonna retire having fought nothing but lemons his whole carrer.
LMAO!
It is the reason CutMeMick does not want to see Zab fight Cotto because Zab is a lemon and a has been. You are right about the fact that Cotto needs to fight some better opp.
I am tired of watching Cotto take out fighters Floyd was unable to stop.
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by Danny_G
SweetPea, @ 147? Have him come down and fight Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley or even the greeen Andre Berto.
He wont touch the 147lb d after Oscar.
What makes you think he won't be back at 147 after the DLH fight? Every indication is that he will be. He's not at 154 because he's afraid of the guys at 147. He's at 154 because he's making a sh*tload of $$$!!!! More money than he could make fighting anyone else.
As for the guys you list, Mayweather would be an overwhelming favorite against everyone of those guys, except for Mosley, who he would merely be a solid favorite against.
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by bilbo
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Originally Posted by Puya
A tough fight for cotto as well Bilbo
Yes definitely but with losses to Tyszu, Spinks, Baldimor and Mayweather from his last 10 opponents
you'd think Zab would want to get a financial cushion with a few easy fights before he risks becoming the next Fernando Vargas especially seeing as he is said to be short of money.
If he loses, where does he go from there really?
There are no such things as an easy fight when your Zab Judah, He is a technically flawed fighter , and likely to be beat by anyone.. Very smart for him to take on Cotto, There is more money in fighting Cotto then anyone else . and its a fight where a loss wouldnt be the end of the road. The only risk here is for Cotto , Zab has nothing to lose and everything to gain... but lets see what happens with Pito Cardona ! I think Cardona has the ability to cash in on Zab's flaws first, and its likely that Zab will not be facing Cotto for that reason. Look for Zab to be at his very best against Cardona, will it be enough is the question. ? Pito can crack with the best of them ! O0
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
great match-up. i wouldn't bet against cotto but judah's got serious skills of course. alrigghttttt. Wacko, please don't start drinking before dinner for this one.
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
Really tough and interesting fight. Cotto will be very strong, and Zab very sharp and hungrier. I think is a really high risk for Cotto, did he said why they took this fight? is already signed?
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by Majesty
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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
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Originally Posted by Majesty
CutMeMick all i've seen you do in this topic is try to downgrade Zab. But I ask you this question.
IS Zab the best opponent Cotto has fought ???
Then you didn't look closely......
I clearly said Zabs fought the better oppositon. Hes a former Champ. and has the credentials.
BUT
Hes lost back to back, and to be honest fuck! knows how his fight against this Israel guy is gonna turn out.... :(
So it makes sense for Cotto to fight someone who ONCE was at top,
then to fight someone who IS currently at top?
Not to me.....
Margarito ISN'T currently at the top. To fight someone at the top Cotto would have to fight Mayweather who's fighting. So then he has to fight the people a step below and Paul Williams is fighting Margarito right now and Shane is probably gonna have one more fight at 147 before he fights top tier again. So then who's left for Cotto to fight at 147 ??? Urkal? ::**
See what I mean?
What I meant by at top is the top guys ranked above him or the guy right behind him not someone like Zab whos at the bottom of the barrel with Gatti, Sharmba & Quintana....
He should be fighting guys who are current champs. and at top....
(I shoud have been more specific... my bad)
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
I have said this a couple of times already:
Zab does just enough to win the early rounds with Cotto banging at his body. Towards the middle rounds the body shots start to take their toll and Zab slows down and starts to break down. Late middle to early late rounds Cotto really starts to take over and (T)KO's Zab.
Zab has the abilities but is unable to stay in the fight mentally, plus Cotto's body work will get Zab to not wanting to stay near Cotto at all.
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
man, you got to respect judah. that dude takes any fight. he can be a bit of a ass sometimes but he aint fussy when it comes to choosing fighters to fight. hope it's a great fight
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by Danny_G
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
Here is part of the reason we're looking at this differently. I don't view this as a title shot for Zab. I stopped paying attention to who owns meaningless belts years ago. Cotto isn't a champ to me, he's a very talented contender who is working his way up the ladder.
It doesn't really matter to me who owns belts, there's one guy in the division at the top right now, Mayweather. The rest are contenders.
SweetPea, I don't mean to offend you and I hope you do not get angry. You have your opinion and I have mine. I enjoy your posts and I appreciate the way you debate with out insulting forum members like other people do.
With out those meaningless belts Floyd would have nothing to stand on.
Floyd beat some bums who were holding belts and that is what fools people into thinking Floyd is God's second sending of Jesus Christ here on earth.
Baldomir was not the best of his division and neither was Gatti to be frank, the only person who might be considered the best in his divison was Jose Luis Castillo and Floyd was given a present.
Floyd has not fought the best of any division after his second fight with Castillo.
Let's look at who he fought after Castillo and tell me how many of the following fighters below are future hall of famers?
Carlos Manuel Baldomir
Zab Judah
Sharmba Mitchell
Arturo Gatti <----Maybe (should go only because he is very famous)
Henry Bruseles
DeMarcus Corley
Philip N'Dou
Victoriano Sosa
You are going to sit there and tell me this is the best opposition out there?
LOL
He ain't fought the best so how does that make him the best?
I think SweetPea's point, which is unassailable, is that Floyd is the current linear world champion of the WW division. Judah was champ, lost it to Baldomir, and Floyd beat Baldomir. I certainly agree that Baldomir was not the "best" fighter in the division at the time, but he was undisputably the division champion. Now Floyd is. As I'm sure you're aware, Cotto would not have his alphabet strap if Baldomir had been willing to pay sanctioning fees (read: extortion) to the WBA.
The point that you're talking about seems to relate to "talent"--who's the most talented, "best," in the division. The way to judge this, I think, is by actually watching the fighter. I don't think anyone else in the division is remotely as talented as Floyd is. Nearly every commentator, journalist, and member of this forum agrees.
If you want to look at records, here are a few points:
1. records are important, but not all-important.
2. as amat pointed out, mosely and oscar are probably the only guys around between 135 and 154 right now who will go to the HOF (besides Floyd).
3. other than mosely, none of the guys you apparently claim to be better than Floyd (I hope I'm misinterpreting you here, but that's what it sounded like)--i.e., Margarito, Cotto, Berto, and Williams--have fought anyone HOF, or even anyone as good as Zab Judah. so if that's what's important to you, I'm not sure how you come up with this list.
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by ds91
man, you got to respect judah. that dude takes any fight. he can be a bit of a ass sometimes but he aint fussy when it comes to choosing fighters to fight. hope it's a great fight
Are you kidding me?
Why wouldn't he? Hes trying to revive his career for at it's worth. As someone else said even when he loses some stupid idiotic people will still be interested in seeing him fight.... As I said hes slowly becoming Tyson in some ways....
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
CutMeMick thanks for clearing that up, but also look at my post now and I also said who is Cotto gonna fight besides Zab and look at the names I listed fighting each other could you respond to that as well please?
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by Majesty
CutMeMick thanks for clearing that up, but also look at my post now and I also said who is Cotto gonna fight besides Zab and look at the names I listed fighting each other could you respond to that as well please?
He can fight other contenders that are on the upside of their careers (regardless of the BS)
He can fight other Welters that can do something for his career.
A fighter that can bring a title to the line.
Margarito (since the fight hasn't been signed)
SSM
Cintron
Williams (since the fight hasn't been signed)
Say what you will IMO beating Zab will do nothing for him in my book, as I keep repeating Zab is in back to back loses how can it raise his stock?
He'll be beating someone Baldomir & PBF already beat?
It's like if Spinks fought Vargas after his back to back loses to SSM.....
What would it do for his career if he beat someone who was champ. at one point at 154 but now has lost back to back?
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
what an odd matchup to have people questioning judahs chin
judah has only been down from balance issues, besides the tszyu incident (although that may have been balance plus slamming his head on the floor)
cotto has been hurt by some weak guys
Re: ***Done Deal - Miguel Cotto vs Zab Judah June 9th!***
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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
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Originally Posted by Majesty
CutMeMick thanks for clearing that up, but also look at my post now and I also said who is Cotto gonna fight besides Zab and look at the names I listed fighting each other could you respond to that as well please?
He can fight other contenders that are on the upside of their careers (regardless of the BS)
He can fight other Welters that can do something for his career.
A fighter that can bring a title to the line.
Margarito (since the fight hasn't been signed)
SSM
Cintron
Williams (since the fight hasn't been signed)
Say what you will IMO beating Zab will do nothing for him in my book, as I keep repeating Zab is in back to back loses how can it raise his stock?
He'll be beating someone Baldomir & PBF already beat?
It's like if Spinks fought Vargas after his back to back loses to SSM.....
What would it do for his career if he beat someone who was champ. at one point at 154 but now has lost back to back?
with all the shit u been talking here i wanna see u say that cotto got KTFO by a "has been" after he gets KTFO ;)
dont put judah over once he KTFO ur mans ;) ;)
