Robbery [spoilers]

Rp I stand corrected I looked at not the epsn article they have on it but the round by round and yes one had it a draw and the others one a piece for each fighter. I know the look of a fighter doesn't really matter since one punch can often times rip a cut open in a boxers eyes, but that was just in reply to people saying that pavlik really didn't land anything significant throughout the fight and that taylor blocked all those punches, if that bulge was caused by insignificant punches than what would a hard punch done to taylors eye? I already mentioned the disparity in punchstats but nobody even seems to aknowledge those. Basically my problem is not with people thinking that taylor won the fight, I've myself thought fighters won a fight when they didn't on judges' scorecards, my problem lies with people calling this a robbery!! That's that

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Originally Posted by bikersk

Ok so Taylor's right eye was closed and his left was swollen. Punches were landing and hard consistently throughout the entire fight. I agree that Taylor's defence was good but it is a 10 MUST system someone has to win the round and Pavlik threw more and landed more. So he wins the fight. I like Taylor and Pavlik I have no leaning either way, I just don't see Taylor winning sorry.

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Right, someone needs to get 10 points, but with Pavlik throwing a lot of punches, and not landing at a super high percentage, and Taylor throwing the more damaging punches, the judges can score on who is hurting the other fighter more.. That is no secret..

If you're gonna score a round 10-9 for someone basing it on output and connection rate, then you assume that they didn't get hit with many punches during the round, and that they clearly outlanded the other fighter throughout the round.. That was not the case with Taylor flurrying and landing looping right hands to the side of Kelly's head clean.

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Originally Posted by RP33

WRONG

one judge on espn had it a draw, one for taylor, one for pavlik.. So, no, they did NOT have it for Pavlik..

As far as i know, judging the condition of boxers faces is not part of the criteria of judging.. Taylor always swells up, so i wasn't surprised that he did.

At least say something of some substance, like Pavlik outjabbed Taylor.. Pavlik won the fight on the basis of his jab, punches thrown, and short punches.. If you would've heard that before the fight you probably would've laughed..

The fact that that is how Taylor lost to Kelly Pavlik, the KO artist, the undefeated middleweight champ with 29 of 32 wins by KO is saying something in and of itself..

Make a post with some substance instead of saying that ESPN had it for Pavlik, when they did NOT.

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I personally had the fight a draw and I was expecting a late stoppage or close decision win for Pavlik. I knew going in that Taylor would make the fight difficult for him, and that he did. Flash does not always win fights though and Pavlik stuck to his game plan and did his thing. Yes Pavlik is a KO artist, but Taylor fought smart and did not give him the chance. Pavlik took what was given to him. I would not have been disappointed if Taylor won either, but to call this fight a robbery is just way too out there for me.

Taylor was flashier, threw some great combos, but Pavlik threw and landed more punches and won many rounds for simply being busier and being consistent.

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Originally Posted by armin

Rp I stand corrected I looked at not the epsn article they have on it but the round by round and yes one had it a draw and the others one a piece for each fighter. I know the look of a fighter doesn't really matter since one punch can often times rip a cut open in a boxers eyes, but that was just in reply to people saying that pavlik really didn't land anything significant throughout the fight and that taylor blocked all those punches, if that bulge was caused by insignificant punches than what would a hard punch done to taylors eye? I already mentioned the disparity in punchstats but nobody even seems to aknowledge those. Basically my problem is not with people thinking that taylor won the fight, I've myself thought fighters won a fight when they didn't on judges' scorecards, my problem lies with people calling this a robbery!! That's that

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nah, i hear you dude.. as far as Pavlik not landing 'significant' punches, i agree in the sense of considering the way Taylor was fighting.. If Pavlik was landing jabs and short punches the whole fight (which he did), and his opponent was not returning with much, then i'd say an easy UD for Pavlik.. But Taylor was CLEARLY landing harder punches, and he connected with a number of them.. It was not like Taylor wasn't active throughout those rounds either.. There were several rounds where he fought for 3:00 of the round.. When you have a fighter landing 25 jabs, and the other fighter landing several punches that throw his opponent off balance, they sort of off-set each other, and it really depends on who is doing more damage and taking control of the fight.. Compared to the first fight, i didn't think Taylor was out of control nearly as much, and felt that he was very calm and collected and was firing at will.

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Originally Posted by RP33

Right, someone needs to get 10 points, but with Pavlik throwing a lot of punches, and not landing at a super high percentage, and Taylor throwing the more damaging punches, the judges can score on who is hurting the other fighter more.. That is no secret..

If you're gonna score a round 10-9 for someone basing it on output and connection rate, then you assume that they didn't get hit with many punches during the round, and that they clearly outlanded the other fighter throughout the round.. That was not the case with Taylor flurrying and landing looping right hands to the side of Kelly's head clean.

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But that is the exact point i am making. Pavlik connected, that's why i mentioned the swollen eyes, the punches connected.

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Originally Posted by bikersk

But that is the exact point i am making. Pavlik connected, that's why i mentioned the swollen eyes, the punches connected.

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I FAIL TO SEE HOW KELLY LANDED MORE PUNCHES. HE THREW MORE YES. BUT HE DIDNT LAND MORE.

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Originally Posted by RP33

nah, i hear you dude.. as far as Pavlik not landing 'significant' punches, i agree in the sense of considering the way Taylor was fighting.. If Pavlik was landing jabs and short punches the whole fight (which he did), and his opponent was not returning with much, then i'd say an easy UD for Pavlik.. But Taylor was CLEARLY landing harder punches, and he connected with a number of them.. It was not like Taylor wasn't active throughout those rounds either.. There were several rounds where he fought for 3:00 of the round.. When you have a fighter landing 25 jabs, and the other fighter landing several punches that throw his opponent off balance, they sort of off-set each other, and it really depends on who is doing more damage and taking control of the fight.. Compared to the first fight, i didn't think Taylor was out of control nearly as much, and felt that he was very calm and collected and was firing at will.

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Yes taylor did seem to be much more calm and collected this time around then he was in the first fight, though there were moments when I thought he was losing it, I swear I think I saw him jump of the ground at one point while throwing a wide looping hook. If kellys jabs were pity paty jabs and the disparity in the punches wasn't as big as it is I would agree, but kellys jabs in itself are damaging punches I think, and I didn't feel as though taylors punches were really that much more damaging to kelly. I guess greater minds have disagreed and like I said no probelm in thinking taylor won, but let's not call this a robbery when it really was just a close fight. Even if I did think taylor won I wouldn't feel to sorry for him because there were times when I thought he was on the good end of a bad decision.

Dibella
""I'm not arguing with the scorecards. It could have gone either way. I think the other guy [Pavlik] is a big, strong monster and Jermain was trying to box to a win, and I think he came damn close. I thought he pulled it out, but he has nothing to be ashamed of. This is not the kind of fight you argue about. It's the kind of fight you appreciate."

Ozell Nelson,

"I think tonight speaks for itself. I thought I did a pretty good job, but we came up short."

Even Taylor's own camp do not consider the fight to be a robbery.

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Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer

Those who wanted Pavlik to win thought he won. The fight was close enough that they could convince themselves of that and see what they wanted to see.


Fact is, Taylor consistently outboxed Pavlik and looked a class above the whole fight.

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I didn't even bother reading further than this as I see things exactly the same way. I think the problem is, people probably judged this fight with the result of the first fight in mind... When the fact is if this had been the first time they met, I think most(even though who saw Pavlik winning) tonight would have seen Taylor as the victor. I thought he clearly outboxed Pavlik in most rounds. Pavlik looked fairly crude overall, he landed some good shots but Taylor easily had the edge in power punches and used his jab far more effectively. I actually bet my friend who I went to see this fight with, that Pavlik was going to win, and when it was over, I told him he didn't owe me the money. I was sure Taylor would get the decision especially since HBO has shown to like him in the past. Sure wasn't the case tonight.

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Originally Posted by BigLuke

I FAIL TO SEE HOW KELLY LANDED MORE PUNCHES. HE THREW MORE YES. BUT HE DIDNT LAND MORE.

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Well look at Taylor's face. Bleeding nose and 2 swollen eyes. How did that happen? Fuckin allergic reaction?

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Originally Posted by p4pking

IWhen the fact is if this had been the first time they met, I think most(even though who saw Pavlik winning) tonight would have seen Taylor as the victor. I thought he clearly outboxed Pavlik in most rounds. Pavlik looked fairly crude overall, he landed some good shots but Taylor easily had the edge in power punches and used his jab far more effectively.

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You bring up an interesting point but I still disagree. Forget the first fight and Pavlik tonight still fought Jermain tougher than any previous opponent. For the record, I thought Taylor deserved his wins over Hopkins and his draw with Wright.

Pavlik did look crude at times but he still landed a lot of hurtful shots, which is why Taylor's face looked so crude after the fight. Taylor was impressive early, but he simply lacked something, whether the skill, the stamina or the strength he needed to turn Pavlik back.

WTF?
I am very surprised that ANYONE could have Jermain Taylor WINNING the fight? That's just crazy. He gave away the last two rounds in a close fight. He LOST.

Here is a great write-up by Kevin Iole of Yahoo Sports. Both he and Dan Rafael of ESPN are reporting that Pavlik is going to the hospital to have both of his hands x-rayed. According to Iole, Pavlik was having stingers in both hands, and according to Rafael, Pavlik thinks he broke his right hand in the 7th round.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

If you look at Taylor's history he has alot of close fights that have been debated often. Both bouts with Hopkins, Ronald Wright, even the bout with Cory Spinks. Each time he got away with the decision. Is anybody suprised he couldn't keep getting the benefit of the doubt at the scoring table forever.

Enjoyed the fight worth staying up for. For me Pavlik won it by 3 rds he outworked Taylor.