Re: Pacquiao Orders Arum To Make Cotto Bout, Nov. 14
Personally I'm quite surprised at how many people are backing Pac over Cotto!! To say Cotto is passed it or to suggest he's close to shot is way off.
He looked good against the bigger AM until he was finally worn down, not to mention the added uncertainty of whether Tony had loaded wraps. Jennings was just a gimme and contrary to what others say he beat a seriously underated Clottey with impaired vision!!
I'm not saying Cotto will beat Pac, I'm just surprised at how quickly people are dismissing his chances...
Re: Pacquiao Orders Arum To Make Cotto Bout, Nov. 14
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I don't know who the hell is advising Pacman but a fight with Cotto is a poor business decision for reasons I've stated in the other posts. And even though Pacman exhibits the signs of a humble champion he's also in it for the money. Everyone remembers that the Hatton fight was almost off until it was 52-48 in Pacmans favor?
Let's say theoretically that both sides have agreed on the 50-50 split for Floyd-Pacman, both of the purses should and probably will be in the 20 million dollar range with a gross percentage of PPV buys for both fighters not to mention that the fight has the possiblity of exceeding the 2.4 million and then you add in sponsorships, advertisements, endorsements, etc. And this has the potential of being the biggest money making fight of all time.
#1 pound for pound versus the former number 1 pound for pound but undefeated. The fight appeals to boxing fans, regular sports fans, and the general public. The financial and boxing rewards is far greater in the Floyd fight then the Cotto fight. So whoever is advising Manny to fight Cotto right now is making a poor business decision.
Just my 2 cents looking at it from a view as a business man.
You are correct if your point is that a PBF v. Pac fight is a bigger fight in respect to legacy and money than a Cotto v. Pac fight. Clearly, however, two fights are bigger than one. Considering Cotto's recent performances, the risk is worth taking. Would the Mosely risk be worth taking if can have PBF in the winter? No. In addition, PBF was injured in his training camp and his fight with Marquez has been postponed. Pac shouldn't wait too much longer to get in the ring.
Financially, Cotto is probably the biggest Puerto Rican fighter at the moment and Puerto Ricans are big boxing fans. The fight may not be on the PBF v. Pac level, but it is big.
A win over Cotto is a big win for Pac. Cotto has been dominant at ww for the past few years; he has beat Mosely, Judah, Torres, Paulie etc. The PBF v. Cotto fight was the fight fans were clamoring for before PBF's retirement, which never happened. It would be a big deal if Pac fought Cotto first and beat him.
Business wise, like I've said its more lucrative to fight Mayweather. He can have one of those tune up fights where he fights an easy opponent to be active and then have his people negotiate with Mayweather. An easy opponent would be someone like Dmitry Salitas, an unbeaten Jr. Welterweight prospect but not considered serious contender, the so called Jewish hope and then fight Mayweather in early spring of 2010. By the time they get in the ring Pac will be 31 and Mayweather close to being 33. And at 33 your reflexes and hand speed aren't the same as they once were. Pacman not only has a better chance of beating Mayweather because of Mayweather's advancing age but also ring rust (having only 1 fight in 2 years) and can enhance his legacy but make a lot more money than fighting Cotto.
And for the people saying that 1 loss does not make you damage goods, it depends on what stage of your career. Right now Pacman is considered to be the #1 p4p fighter and as Bernard Hopkins says, "He has an sort of an aura of being invincible because of his recent victories" If Pacman were to fight Cotto and say lose he loses leverage and possibly tens of millions of dollars or more. See Zab Judah when he lost around 3 or 4 million dollars by losing to Baldomir which was his tune up fight for Mayweather.
The fight with Mayweather would be billed something like "Who's p4p the best?" But if Pacman loses to Cotto the marketability of Pacman for that fight takes a tremendous hit not to mention his status as being p4p #1.
Business wise it's a huge gamble against the dangerous Cotto, the high risk high reward of that fight isnt' on par with Mayweather.
But hey I'm not a Pacman fan and I hope he stupidly takes the Cotto fight and loses and has very little leverage against Mayweather.;D
Re: Pacquiao Orders Arum To Make Cotto Bout, Nov. 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Conrad
Personally I'm quite surprised at how many people are backing Pac over Cotto!! To say Cotto is passed it or to suggest he's close to shot is way off.
He looked good against the bigger AM until he was finally worn down, not to mention the added uncertainty of whether Tony had loaded wraps. Jennings was just a gimme and contrary to what others say he beat a seriously underated Clottey with impaired vision!!
I'm not saying Cotto will beat Pac, I'm just surprised at how quickly people are dismissing his chances...
I agree, just last year the thought of Pac vs. Cotto was laughable, and other than Pac fan boys nobody in their right mind would expect Pac to beat, let alone fight Cotto back then. On top of this, Cotto is getting absolutely no respect for beating Clottey when there is no way in hell Pac would beat Clottey (yeah... I know he's too big, but that's my point). I think Clottey's a little bit of a headcase, but if it wasn't for that he would be top 2 or 3 WW's, he still might be now IMO. If this fight happens Cotto will stop Pac IMO. Cotto's way too strong and skilled for Pac.
Re: Pacquiao Orders Arum To Make Cotto Bout, Nov. 14
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Pacquiao is going to bludgeon Cotto. To tell the truth, out of the big three (PBF, Mosley, Cotto) this is the fight I least wanted to see.
I disagree. This is the fight I most wanted to see because out of the 3, this will actually be the most exciting fight to watch. I knew though, that after Cotto putting in a close performance Manny would pick this fight. If Cotto had stopped Clottey impressively, no way Manny would have taken that fight.
Really? I think Cotto has two types of fighting. When he stalks and when he baits and throws 3-4 punches while backing into the ropes. I think the most exciting fight out of all the people and Pac would be Mosley vs Pac. Both men possess speed and power and look to brawl.
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Pacquiao is going to bludgeon Cotto. To tell the truth, out of the big three (PBF, Mosley, Cotto) this is the fight I least wanted to see.
I disagree. This is the fight I most wanted to see because out of the 3, this will actually be the most exciting fight to watch. I knew though, that after Cotto putting in a close performance Manny would pick this fight. If Cotto had stopped Clottey impressively, no way Manny would have taken that fight.
Agreed. People are underestimating Cotto on the back of a tough fight marred by a butt induced gash. People are saying he is done when in fact he should be commended for adapting and finding a way through. He could have quit earlier and taken a points decision. But instead roughed it out.
We agreed on this on another post. I will just re-agree. People made too big a deal out of Cotto fighting cautiously. He had a BAD cut and fought properly to not take too many shots. If he had fought aggressively and gotten sparked, where would that have left him?
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
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Originally Posted by
XaduBoxer
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
"If you wanna be the champion, if you wanna take my title, I think you better have to come and take it."
Marvin Hagler to all the guys who challenged him.
I have always loved this quote. If Pacman wants Cotto's title and belts fight him at his best which is 147. A catchweight is a farce, especially if it's for any titles.
I think Team PAC will not force for a title/belt to be at stake... What Team PAC will surely negotiate is the catchweight...
I'm also guessing PAC will be the favorite in the betting against Cotto...;)
.
No catch weights. Many fans really don't like that catch weight thing.
If Pacman can't fight someone at their best, then just don't fight. I sure wonder if Roberto Duran ever had a catch weight clause in his contract against Hearns, Leonard, Hagler? And considering he was about the same height and build as Pacman.
"If someone can't fight Pacquiao at his best, then just don't fight." Try looking at it through the other side of the argument. Pac is P4P #1, why should he give his opponent the complete advantage?!
I don't get how people can complain about him. Not because I'm a fan but look at what he's done. He was at 130 last year and between that last fight he fought Marquez, De La Hoya, and Hatton?! What more could people ask for? Marquez and Pac were the two best at that weight, when the fight was signed, no one thought Pac would beat Oscar (except for the Pacfans), and he fought Hatton at Ricky's weight class!
He's the top dog people should be coming to him not the other way around.
But I do agree, no title should be on the line if it isn't fought at the actual weight class the title resides. IMO, Catchweights are just for fights where people want to see two fighter meet who aren't in the same weight class.
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Originally Posted by
Phil
excuse my ignorance but I thought PAC-Mosley was pretty much done,
what happened there?
As did many people. There was negotiations done between everyone involved except Pac never had any say. Once he did, he said he had to weight his options.
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
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Originally Posted by
Steelie
Cotto is wayyyyy over-rated. His record screams cautious and his much vaunted dominance of 147 has never really happened has it?
He's tailor made for Pac and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise.
mosley, judah, clottey, torres suggests a very good fighter with a good CV.
Anyone that beats shane mosley has got to be world class!!
I agree with that. Cotto beat Shane, and not just anyone can beat him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I don't know who the hell is advising Pacman but a fight with Cotto is a poor business decision for reasons I've stated in the other posts. And even though Pacman exhibits the signs of a humble champion he's also in it for the money. Everyone remembers that the Hatton fight was almost off until it was 52-48 in Pacmans favor?
Let's say theoretically that both sides have agreed on the 50-50 split for Floyd-Pacman, both of the purses should and probably will be in the 20 million dollar range with a gross percentage of PPV buys for both fighters not to mention that the fight has the possiblity of exceeding the 2.4 million and then you add in sponsorships, advertisements, endorsements, etc. And this has the potential of being the biggest money making fight of all time.
#1 pound for pound versus the former number 1 pound for pound but undefeated. The fight appeals to boxing fans, regular sports fans, and the general public. The financial and boxing rewards is far greater in the Floyd fight then the Cotto fight. So whoever is advising Manny to fight Cotto right now is making a poor business decision.
Just my 2 cents looking at it from a view as a business man.
I too also think Pac and his team deciding to fight other big names before a potential fight with Floyd happening is a bad idea, from a business standpoint.
But as a fight fan, I have to give him respect on the people he's trying to fight regardless of the situation.
C'mon guys! Barrera x2, Morales x3, Marquez x3, De La Hoya, Hatton and he's still looking to fight Shane, Floyd, and Cotto?! What other fighters want that!?
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Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
As sick as i am of discussing catchweights.. I think this is a great fight.
Id be VERY happy if this fight was made.
Re: Pacquiao Orders Arum To Make Cotto Bout, Nov. 14
So it looks like this fight will be at a catch weight, fine then but no title should be on the line and one that is reasonable. Pacman wants it to be at 142 pounds. That's unreasonable. Miguel will be weak and weight drained.
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Empowered in negotiating as the world's top pound-for-pound boxer, Pacquiao will dictate at what weight a potential Cotto bout would be fought -- likely around 142 pounds, sources say -- and the Puerto Rican Cotto (34-1, 27 KOs) hasn't fought below the welterweight limit since June 2006.
Manny Pacquiao versus Miguel Cotto? It's tentative for Nov. 14 in Las Vegas - Los Angeles Times
I see visions of another Leonard-Lalonde fight but at "welterweight". I sure wonder if it's going to be for the welterweight belts also.
Re: Pacquiao Orders Arum To Make Cotto Bout, Nov. 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Joerod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Conrad
Personally I'm quite surprised at how many people are backing Pac over Cotto!! To say Cotto is passed it or to suggest he's close to shot is way off.
He looked good against the bigger AM until he was finally worn down, not to mention the added uncertainty of whether Tony had loaded wraps. Jennings was just a gimme and contrary to what others say he beat a seriously underated Clottey with impaired vision!!
I'm not saying Cotto will beat Pac, I'm just surprised at how quickly people are dismissing his chances...
I agree, just last year the thought of Pac vs. Cotto was laughable, and other than Pac fan boys nobody in their right mind would expect Pac to beat, let alone fight Cotto back then. On top of this, Cotto is getting absolutely no respect for beating Clottey when there is no way in hell Pac would beat Clottey (yeah... I know he's too big, but that's my point). I think Clottey's a little bit of a headcase, but if it wasn't for that he would be top 2 or 3 WW's, he still might be now IMO. If this fight happens Cotto will stop Pac IMO. Cotto's way too strong and skilled for Pac.
It's the same thing all over again... One and a half year ago PAC-Hatton was laughable... Then the fight was made and "surprisingly" PAC was initially installed as a 2 to 1 favorite and on fightnight became a 3 to 1 favorite... PAC is improving in each and every fight while there was a decline seen in Cotto's performances aside from him being in brutal boxing wars as of recent...
Of course Cotto will be much a tougher fight than Hatton... He's bigger, stronger and most specially way smarter than Hatton... After seeing PAC KO'ed Hatton cold in only 2 rounds then PAC-Cotto will be dead-even banger... IMO PAC will edge it out...
;)
