Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Originally Posted by
Quinito
What complete "ownage"? Its completely irrelevant. Those Pac was 10 years ago. He wasn't at his best. He wasn't even in to 30 p4p best back then. There's a huge diff between 1 div champ and 6 div champ. So always rubbish to compare an old Pac to a new Pac. Ownage my ass.
Its not a case of comparing old Pac to new Pac. The point I'm making are these are clear indications of how a weight drained fighter can under perform. I just feel he should fight Cotto or Mosley at their optimum weight so it doesn't hinder their performance in a fight with Pacquiao. What pisses me off about it is that he is more than capable of beating them both at 147, because he is simply that good a fighter. Thats not to say he will, but I think he would be the bookies favourite.
Not against Mosely. If that fight happened at 147, I'd sig bet any day of the week.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
If the weightloss will seriously hinder Mosley or Cotto, as I suspect it will. If Manny is the best, and wants to beat the best, he should fight them at their best. Its for his benefit too. Like I said earlier, 2 of Manny's losses have been attributed to him being weight drained. Does it mean his conquerers can consider themselves amongst the best in the world because they beat him? Or did these wins prove little as they weren't fighting a full strength Pacquiao?
Cotto weighed in at 146 for the Clottey fight. 144 wouldn't be too big of a step down. Mosely, well, that is another story, no one knows for sure. My bet is that weighing 142 would hamper his ability or from another perspective, even out the playing field.
Would you give more credit to Pacquiao if he beat the top lightweights (Nate Campbell etc.) and junior welterweights (he already did that, but how about Tim Bradley etc) or if he beat Cotto at 144? If he suddenly became realistic that he just isn't big enough to fight a true welterweight at their normal weight, but dominated at 135/140.
What fights would a boxing fan rather see? Cotto at 144 or Campbell/Valero etc.?
I understand and agree that if the fight is for a welterweight belt, it should be at 147, like it was at 140 for the junior welterweight belt, but that aside, wouldn't you rather see Pac fight Cotto at 144 (assuming PBF is out of the picture)?
In some ways, of course I would rather see the Cotto fight. But I seriously think he'll struggle. I know another 2lbs off might not be considered that big a step but if that was true, Campbell would have made weight for Funeka. I'm not convinced Cotto will be healthy and give a true account of himself at 144. So if the choice is a shell of Cotto or seeing him fight Bradley or Valero, then I would prefer Bradley or Valero. You see my point?
Yes, I do. Fair enough. But, you can agree that 2 pounds may not be that big of a step. It may. But, it may not. If the fight is at 145, I don't see it being an issue.
The thing about Campbell is that he was prepared to fight at 135. Cotto would be prepared to fight at 144. He'd train for it. His people should know if he can do it in a healthy way. They saw what Pac can do to Hatton and ODLH, they should be watching out for Cotto in that respect.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Originally Posted by
Quinito
What complete "ownage"? Its completely irrelevant. Those Pac was 10 years ago. He wasn't at his best. He wasn't even in to 30 p4p best back then. There's a huge diff between 1 div champ and 6 div champ. So always rubbish to compare an old Pac to a new Pac. Ownage my ass.
Its not a case of comparing old Pac to new Pac. The point I'm making are these are clear indications of how a weight drained fighter can under perform. I just feel he should fight Cotto or Mosley at their optimum weight so it doesn't hinder their performance in a fight with Pacquiao. What pisses me off about it is that he is more than capable of beating them both at 147, because he is simply that good a fighter. Thats not to say he will, but I think he would be the bookies favourite.
Not against Mosely. If that fight happened at 147, I'd sig bet any day of the week.
I'd take it, because I don't think Mosley will be able to catch him. Its all well and good when you have a willing target like Margarito, but Mosley's age would show in this one I think. Its just a feeling, but I'd be happy to bet if the fight ever happens.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Cotto weighed in at 146 for the Clottey fight. 144 wouldn't be too big of a step down. Mosely, well, that is another story, no one knows for sure. My bet is that weighing 142 would hamper his ability or from another perspective, even out the playing field.
Would you give more credit to Pacquiao if he beat the top lightweights (Nate Campbell etc.) and junior welterweights (he already did that, but how about Tim Bradley etc) or if he beat Cotto at 144? If he suddenly became realistic that he just isn't big enough to fight a true welterweight at their normal weight, but dominated at 135/140.
What fights would a boxing fan rather see? Cotto at 144 or Campbell/Valero etc.?
I understand and agree that if the fight is for a welterweight belt, it should be at 147, like it was at 140 for the junior welterweight belt, but that aside, wouldn't you rather see Pac fight Cotto at 144 (assuming PBF is out of the picture)?
In some ways, of course I would rather see the Cotto fight. But I seriously think he'll struggle. I know another 2lbs off might not be considered that big a step but if that was true, Campbell would have made weight for Funeka. I'm not convinced Cotto will be healthy and give a true account of himself at 144. So if the choice is a shell of Cotto or seeing him fight Bradley or Valero, then I would prefer Bradley or Valero. You see my point?
Yes, I do. Fair enough. But, you can agree that 2 pounds may not be that big of a step. It may. But, it may not. If the fight is at 145, I don't see it being an issue.
The thing about Campbell is that he was prepared to fight at 135. Cotto would be prepared to fight at 144. He'd train for it. His people should know if he can do it in a healthy way. They saw what Pac can do to Hatton and ODLH, they should be watching out for Cotto in that respect.
Maybe, but sometimes all people see is the money. If Cotto is fit and healthy at 144 then it could be great. I just think the variable is leaving the whole thing open for excuse. Thats why I prefer fighting at a recognized weightclass. I can't understand why Pacquiao wouldn't take it at 147 really. If he lost, people wouldn't discredit him for it. If he wins, he puts the icing on a pretty incredible career. Surely its worth the risk.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Pac should just fight Cotto at his best at 147 and for his titles. No one can say s-hit about Pacman anymore including me and even the Mayweather fans can't criticize Manny since their guy hasn't faced a top welterweight that's in Cotto's class.
I hope it happens.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Cotto weighed in at 146 for the Clottey fight. 144 wouldn't be too big of a step down. Mosely, well, that is another story, no one knows for sure. My bet is that weighing 142 would hamper his ability or from another perspective, even out the playing field.
Would you give more credit to Pacquiao if he beat the top lightweights (Nate Campbell etc.) and junior welterweights (he already did that, but how about Tim Bradley etc) or if he beat Cotto at 144? If he suddenly became realistic that he just isn't big enough to fight a true welterweight at their normal weight, but dominated at 135/140.
What fights would a boxing fan rather see? Cotto at 144 or Campbell/Valero etc.?
I understand and agree that if the fight is for a welterweight belt, it should be at 147, like it was at 140 for the junior welterweight belt, but that aside, wouldn't you rather see Pac fight Cotto at 144 (assuming PBF is out of the picture)?
In some ways, of course I would rather see the Cotto fight. But I seriously think he'll struggle. I know another 2lbs off might not be considered that big a step but if that was true, Campbell would have made weight for Funeka. I'm not convinced Cotto will be healthy and give a true account of himself at 144. So if the choice is a shell of Cotto or seeing him fight Bradley or Valero, then I would prefer Bradley or Valero. You see my point?
Yes, I do. Fair enough. But, you can agree that 2 pounds may not be that big of a step. It may. But, it may not. If the fight is at 145, I don't see it being an issue.
The thing about Campbell is that he was prepared to fight at 135. Cotto would be prepared to fight at 144. He'd train for it.
His people should know if he can do it in a healthy way. They saw what Pac can do to Hatton and ODLH, they should be watching out for Cotto in that respect.
They should watch out for Cotto, but all they're going to see are dollar signs.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Pac should just fight Cotto at his best at 147 and for his titles. No one can say s-hit about Pacman anymore including me and even the Mayweather fans can't criticize Manny since their guy hasn't faced a top welterweight that's in Cotto's class.
I hope it happens.
That could happen... Just like the fight at a catchweight of 143 could happen too... It all depends on all parties and conditions involved in the fight...
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Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Answer me this: if Pacquiao can fight Dela Hoya at 147. Then why not Cotto, or Mosley ???
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
To be completely honest with everyone, I've always thought since Pac was the top dog, people should be coming to him and going along with what he wants not the other way around. People want to make the fight with him and he could go other directions if one party didn't agree.
But looking at some of these posts, I'm starting to think that Pac should just fight Cotto at 147. I don't even care anymore at what weight this is. I just want to see the best fighting the best, PERIOD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Pac should just fight Cotto at his best at 147 and for his titles. No one can say s-hit about Pacman anymore including me and even the Mayweather fans can't criticize Manny since their guy hasn't faced a top welterweight that's in Cotto's class.
I hope it happens.
If only that were true. All the people who want to discredit Pac always brings up the 2 early losses and being outboxed by Morales. If you're on top, you'll always have your haters. That's the way it is.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
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Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Answer me this: if Pacquiao can fight Dela Hoya at 147. Then why not Cotto, or Mosley ???
PAC weigh-in at 142 for the Hoya fight and weigh 148 on fight night...
Cotto weigh-in at 146 in his last fight against Clottey and probably weighs 160 on fight night...
Mosley weigh-in at 147 in his last fight against Margcheat and probably weighs 160 on fight night...
Do you want PAC to give away at least 12 lbs to those guys on fight night by accepting a 147 fight? If they want a fight at 147, why don't they just call out a big 147 guy instead of calling out PAC... Paul Williams is ready to fight them at 147...
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Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Answer me this: if Pacquiao can fight Dela Hoya at 147. Then why not Cotto, or Mosley ???
Because Oscar was weight drain at 147 and 35 years old at the time of the match. Age plus the weight Oscar has to come down to equals just a moving target. Cotto at 147 is at his best and in his prime and a more dangerous fight, but a weight drain Cotto would only be half as effective. We all know why Cotto had to move up from 140 to 147 because he was weak and could barely make weight.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Answer me this: if Pacquiao can fight Dela Hoya at 147. Then why not Cotto, or Mosley ???
that's cos when pac fought dlh he weighed in at 142lbs. for the the hatton fight he was 139. around those weight he performs best. dlh fought him at a lower weight to level the playing field, and even at 147 most people are saying pac doesn't stand a chance and oscar will demolish him. who would have known? it's not like pac is the one who want to fight these heavier guys. both sides wanted the fight and right now them bigger guys are trying to get in front of each other to get that fight. some of your are saying if pac wants to fight mosley or cotto he should fight them at their optimum weight, but then it wouldn't be at pac's optimum weight would it? then it wouldn't be fair and a victory for the bigger guys would also be tainted having picked on the smaller guy. it actually plays both ways, pac beats them at 147 he gets more credit, they beat pac at a catchweight they get more credit.
i actually don't like catchweights but these are the best fights to be made around those weights and i think there shouldn't really be much of a problem, and it's not like it hasn't been done before, as long as they meet at weight where both sides wouldn't be placed at too much of a disadvantage. 144.5-145lbs imo is fair.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Pac is the boss. He dictate the terms. If they want the money, they're gonna have to come down and REALLY earn it, and not the other way around. Pac gambled his reputation fighting the now ex-cash cow DLH, and now they're gonna have to do the same thing for Pac.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Pac is the boss. He dictate the terms. If they want the money, they're gonna have to come down and REALLY earn it, and not the other way around. Pac gambled his reputation fighting the now ex-cash cow DLH, and now they're gonna have to do the same thing for Pac.
Too bad the BOSS now is a smaller man... Bigger boxers has to drain themselves in order to get a fight with the BOSS...
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