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Maidana and Ortiz both took a beating in that fight.....Even Maidana seemed a little woozy in the post fight interview......:o
Ortiz has skill but we will see how he deals with this defeat. Will he go down the road of bojado or other fighters that have lost early on.
I think the pressure from the De La Hoya Hype machine might have been too much for him at this stage......There was alot of pressure on him to be great....
I know this is makes me a hippocrite (I'm a bit weighty these days) but I do not blame Ortiz for quiting. Maidana was doing his best Samuel Peter impersonation last night. I'd of quit. Ortiz had blood gushing out of one eye and the other was two punches away from swelling shut. He had already knocked Maidana down three times and each time Maidana rose to his feet.
What good does it do to suffer brain damage when your chances of winning were slimming by the second? No one wants to become the next Leavander Johnson.
I also thought that Robert Guerrero was smart to quit the fight before last.
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
If he wants out, that's fine.... it's his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by markb018He pretty much said this sport isn't for me last night, I am ok with that. He got beat up he didn't like. If the kid is out I am ok with that and so should everyone elseQuote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
But since he's been discussed as a top prospect and future champion, it's 100% OK to question his heart and toughness and talk about how his actions last night might indicate that he won't become the top guy people were predicting him to be.
Are you telling me that part of top boxing is getting hit back?? Like taking hard punches?
True that! It's one thing to get beat on the skill side or the physical side of the confrontation, it can easily be chalked up to lesson one... on to leson 2!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
It is however, another level to get beat on the emotional or psychological side of it, that is one haunting scenario which has serious potential to derail future plans of aspiring, up and coming fighters, even at the very top level.
See, this goes back to the old adage that fighters are born, they are not made.
A fighter would never quit, however outfought they may be at any given moment. If then beat, they go home and resolve to get much better and get saddled for the next available fight, the soonest!
On the others side the "gym produce" version, is less instinctive in fighting and will always have the better grasp of things when outclassed, will quit or fight in safety mode and less aggressive.
Surely, this is a detriment to the "produce" fighter to some degree in parallel to his threshold of the "safety first" mindset. Also in addition, conversely in comparison to "born" fighters, "quit" is easily reached in their minds, having none of that "better to die than be humbled" mentality which minimally a warrior's mind will possess.
Quit temporarily on a game to game basis is OK, but if it has reached to the gut level, it is probably already a kiss of death to a fighter!
Ortiz can rise from this, the victor in him, but he needs to summon his warrior spirit... mightily!
If he had enough he had enough bottom line its his life and his choice.
Not everyone has what it takes to be an Elite champion, pure skill is not enough it takes a very special motor inside to push pass pass adversity and overcome. Boxers with half his natural ability have been champs because the have the heart and mental toughness. Last night Victor got dragged out to the deep dark water and drowned.
Boxing is a hurt game your going to get hit and feel pain thats the point of it.
It is fair to question his heart because thats the measuring stick of his marketability and potential for greatness.
I just watched the hbo replay. Ortiz indeed quit. He simply lost the adrenaline and started thinking and feeling the pain. He lost his spirit.
Do you get battered in the face in your CHOSEN profession? It's very easy to sit here & talk like you would be there till the end, but the fact is he's in there, not any guys typing away on a message board. He's come from nothing and he's probably now made enough money to sort his future, and maybe the fact he's had to struggle makes him realize how much he values his life. No one wants to end up like Gerald McClellan & if you can't see the punches coming from a guy like Maidana than that's what you risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBLost respect for him? Why? what's the toughest fight you've been in>Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
In my CHOSEN profession, I have been in incredibly hard fights.
I didnt choose boxing he did, again if you are going to go after something, pick something you would be willing to go out on your shield for.
However, he does deserve to be criticized for the manner in which he fought the fight after knocking down Maidana twice. It showed that he's still too green, as a smarter fighter wouldn't have shot his bolt trying to get Maidana out of there.
He is a pro fighter that we pay to see. We can criticize him. I don't respect Acelino Freitas. And why? Because he got his cookies and cream too early.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinDo you get battered in the face in your CHOSEN profession? It's very easy to sit here & talk like you would be there till the end, but the fact is he's in there, not any guys typing away on a message board. He's come from nothing and he's probably now made enough money to sort his future, and maybe the fact he's had to struggle makes him realize how much he values his life. No one wants to end up like Gerald McClellan & if you can't see the punches coming from a guy like Maidana than that's what you risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
In my CHOSEN profession, I have been in incredibly hard fights.
I didnt choose boxing he did, again if you are going to go after something, pick something you would be willing to go out on your shield for.
However, he does deserve to be criticized for the manner in which he fought the fight after knocking down Maidana twice. It showed that he's still too green, as a smarter fighter wouldn't have shot his bolt trying to get Maidana out of there.
Bit harsh on Diaz, which fight did he quit in? Campbell got into his head and gave him a bit of a beating but he showed a ton of heart against JMM.
Rewatching it for about the 5th time.I think alot of it was the huge push in promotion/hype.Solid foundation and natural power but god HBO has a track record with forcing the next big thing down a young talents throat as well as the viewing audience.Way too much emphasis was put on the power and blitzing guys out.Dont see him staying at 140...he has the torso of a jr.middle.He had better find a way to avoid right hands.
He just seemed so caught up.He opted out...it happens to many.But he has to be prepared to endure what goes with that.Spur of the moment but its a scarlet letter.The family turmoil is obviously still weighing heavy.Hes a kid and suddenly found himself in a dark alley with true adversity.The interview is what stuck with me...way too aloof.I think alot of these guys today are rushed past the fundamentals in overall boxing and the mental grounding that must accompany it in a clamor for the 'next big thing'.Mentality after this may be his biggest opponent,if its not solid, all the skills in the world wont mean much.
Well especially in this economy and lean budgets for networks, they just like everyone else is looking to limit the bleeding of the wallet. These guys are going to be pushed and showcased to draw interest, ratings and $$$$$$$$$Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Thats why it suprised me to hear Arum talk about Gamboa and JML. it would be nice if they could wait. Unfortunately no can afford to wait in this economy
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinDo you get battered in the face in your CHOSEN profession? It's very easy to sit here & talk like you would be there till the end, but the fact is he's in there, not any guys typing away on a message board. He's come from nothing and he's probably now made enough money to sort his future, and maybe the fact he's had to struggle makes him realize how much he values his life. No one wants to end up like Gerald McClellan & if you can't see the punches coming from a guy like Maidana than that's what you risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
In my CHOSEN profession, I have been in incredibly hard fights.
I didnt choose boxing he did, again if you are going to go after something, pick something you would be willing to go out on your shield for.
However, he does deserve to be criticized for the manner in which he fought the fight after knocking down Maidana twice. It showed that he's still too green, as a smarter fighter wouldn't have shot his bolt trying to get Maidana out of there.
No I dont get battered, thats why I chose it. If I thought I could take it I'd be in there. He wanted to be a fighter and although he was very humble about it, he liked the attention. What did he think his opponents were gonna do, blow kisses at him?
same here, the way i understood it was, he shouldn't be taking the kind of punishment that he took at this stage of his career, that he's going to have to go back to the drawing board and work on his defense a bit, Maidana has anvils for fists, Ortiz's left eye was fine going into the last round, completely unswollen, not even half way into the round it looked like it had been being tagged on all nightQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
anvil it is mate, the left hook that landed once made the cut, then I think 1 or 2 rights made the inflammation. I really hope Maidana gets a world class trainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessame here, the way i understood it was, he shouldn't be taking the kind of punishment that he took at this stage of his career, that he's going to have to go back to the drawing board and work on his defense a bit, Maidana has anvils for fists, Ortiz's left eye was fine going into the last round, completely unswollen, not even half way into the round it looked like it had been being tagged on all nightQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Why is it such a bad thing for a fighter to take care of his health.
I would much prefer a fighter quit and fight another day than to take a beating and never be the same again.