US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts

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Originally Posted by amat

People take 'freedom of speach' and think that means you can do anything. However, those rights don't extend to public schools. There are tons of rules in place school isn't the place to exercise those rights.

I went to high school in an area much like Morgan Hill, Petaluma, CA. Both have a set establishment of mostly white upperclass people and then everyone else is latino. My graduating class had barely any asians or black people so I can definitely relate.

These kids were DOUCHES, 100%. They are bitter that there melting pot is becoming increasingly brown in color and they can't stomach the fact that Mexicans in the US like to celebrate Cinco De Mayo. So they wear American flags on a day of celebration and use them as tools of EXCLUSION. On the day where you celebrate your Mexican heritage, you see a gang of white kids who made a coordinated effort to say 'Don't forget you are in America.' These kids are assholes, friends of mine have carried the same attitudes and the fact that these kids were trying to make a 'statement' for no reason.

It's funny that this happened in Morgan Hill too because it's an area that's generally split white/latino, there's only about 6 or 7 towns left in the Bay Area that are like that. It's the fact that there are a large number of Mexicans as opposed to Asians or blacks.

This is a common sense issue, these kids were making inflammatory statements meant to deepen the divide in the community and at a school. If this was a march and it was city streets, go ahead be a Dick and make people feel unwanted but this was AT SCHOOL. HTH I expected but I'm shocked people actually side with these douchebags.

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Not often we agree but that was a great post. It's so petty as well to test your freedom of speech on such a trivial issue. I mean how many white Americans are being marginalised because Mexcians have one national day of celebration a year?

I hear that the families are of the 'victims' are planning to sue the school as well for the trauma of being told to go change or go home :(

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by amat

People take 'freedom of speach' and think that means you can do anything. However, those rights don't extend to public schools. There are tons of rules in place school isn't the place to exercise those rights.

I went to high school in an area much like Morgan Hill, Petaluma, CA. Both have a set establishment of mostly white upperclass people and then everyone else is latino. My graduating class had barely any asians or black people so I can definitely relate.

These kids were DOUCHES, 100%. They are bitter that there melting pot is becoming increasingly brown in color and they can't stomach the fact that Mexicans in the US like to celebrate Cinco De Mayo. So they wear American flags on a day of celebration and use them as tools of EXCLUSION. On the day where you celebrate your Mexican heritage, you see a gang of white kids who made a coordinated effort to say 'Don't forget you are in America.' These kids are assholes, friends of mine have carried the same attitudes and the fact that these kids were trying to make a 'statement' for no reason.

It's funny that this happened in Morgan Hill too because it's an area that's generally split white/latino, there's only about 6 or 7 towns left in the Bay Area that are like that. It's the fact that there are a large number of Mexicans as opposed to Asians or blacks.

This is a common sense issue, these kids were making inflammatory statements meant to deepen the divide in the community and at a school. If this was a march and it was city streets, go ahead be a Dick and make people feel unwanted but this was AT SCHOOL. HTH I expected but I'm shocked people actually side with these douchebags.

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Not often we agree but that was a great post. It's so petty as well to test your freedom of speech on such a trivial issue. I mean how many white Americans are being marginalised because Mexcians have one national day of celebration a year?

I hear that the families are of the 'victims' are planning to sue the school as well for the trauma of being told to go change or go home :(

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Yep both of you are right on the money.. Exactly what I thought when reading this story...

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer

Its a fundementalist march held on the very same day and in the very same place that dead soliders are being carried through the streets. If that isnt a hate march i dont know what is.

This is the equivelant of myself not being allowed to wear my england top on the day eid or whatever the hell they celebrate.

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It's the same principle here. On the very same day, and the very same place that the Mexican students are celebrating their national day a group of Americans turn up parading their own flag.

How can you not see that this could be an incitement to violence also?

It's not the principles job to allow his students to actively demonstrate their right to freedom of speech, it's his job to prevent the students from stabbing each other.

Given the levels of violence in American schools they clearly didn't want to take any chances in an American vs Mexican brawl taking place.

And all the principle did was tell them to either take the tshirts off or go home for the afternoon. There was no punishments or suspension. He just wanted to keep the peace, and these whiny cunts and their parents kick off just demonstrating the fact that they only wore them to antagonise in the first place.

Sorry, but they are just a bunch of racist knobheads imo.

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Observe people. This is how you play the race card. BTW 1 of the kids wanting to wear the American flags and colors is half Mexican.

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That makes him an even bigger idiot then.

I love how when something can seen as being potentially racist, somebody jumps in to point out such a minor detail that obviously excludes them from being racist.

It's up there with 'I'm not racist, i've got a black friend', and 'I'm not racist, i don't care if they're yellow, blue, purple, orange or black....they shouldn't be here'

The kids might have legally been within their rights to do what they did, but anybody who isn't a twat can see that they did it to provoke a reaction. If you can't see this, then i can only guess you have very similar issues to the kids in question. ;)

You have to question the mindset of the kids wanting to wear the flag on THIS day of all days.

I hate political correctness but I actually agree with it here. Those kids were up to no good.

Actually, I disagree with the kids being kicked out from school. Sure maybe it was provocation, which is not correct, however, it wasn't like if they did burn a Mexican flag or something, they were wearing the flag of their country in their country! In Canada for those who might not know it, we have 2 national holiday, June 24 and July 1st. July 24 is the national day for French part of Canada, la "St-Jean Baptiste", VERY popular here and I would even say by far far more than July first, you can't even compare it. How often do you think we've seen peoples in Montreal walking with Canadian flags when the whole rest of the province is walking with our blue and white on it only to provoke and ruin things? How many English native are doing so in the countryside where 95% of the kids speak french only to provoke things? It happens often. IT is not especially nice but it is the flag of our country as much as some might dislike it and till the opposite is proven, Quebec isn't independent yet from Canada. It is perhaps unnecessary provocation but you cannot throw a kid from school for that and I think that the same example is also valid for the Cinco de Mayo thing.

I'd love to research Canadian History because I know nothing about this country except it has some breathtaking scenery and that it's a bit like the USA only less violent and possibly a bit more articulated ???

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Originally Posted by Nameless

Actually, I disagree with the kids being kicked out from school. Sure maybe it was provocation, which is not correct, however, it wasn't like if they did burn a Mexican flag or something, they were wearing the flag of their country in their country! In Canada for those who might not know it, we have 2 national holiday, June 24 and July 1st. July 24 is the national day for French part of Canada, la "St-Jean Baptiste", VERY popular here and I would even say by far far more than July first, you can't even compare it. How often do you think we've seen peoples in Montreal walking with Canadian flags when the whole rest of the province is walking with our blue and white on it only to provoke and ruin things? How many English native are doing so in the countryside where 95% of the kids speak french only to provoke things? It happens often. IT is not especially nice but it is the flag of our country as much as some might dislike it and till the opposite is proven, Quebec isn't independent yet from Canada. It is perhaps unnecessary provocation but you cannot throw a kid from school for that and I think that the same example is also valid for the Cinco de Mayo thing.

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The principle's role isn't to stand up for freedom of speech or do what is politically correct. His job is simply to preserve order and good feeling amongst students at school.

A school is no test bed for legal matters. He just wanted to make sure some idiots didn't ruin the day for the rest of the students.

Why are people getting so worked up about this? Nobody was suspended, nobody had their liberties taken away.

When you consider how so many thousands of people have lain down their lives to provide basic human freedoms for others, and the struggles that some have endured, it's so pathetically trivial that people would moan about this.

'Oh no I'm having MY RIGHTS to adorn myself in my national flag apparel taken away from me for the hours whilst I'm at school on one day of the year!' :rolleyes:

It's really not a big deal, and to protest it so strongly (I'm not saying you here Nameless) can't really be seen as anything other than an underlying hostility or racist sentiment.

There is a time and a place to express your freedom of speech and this wasn't it.

It's no different to someone cursing and using foul language on live tv before the watershed because it's their 'right' to use adult language.

Unless you're Chris Arreola you just don't do it because it's considered disrespectful to those watching, many of whom are young, and many of whom are whiny old pedants who might be offended.

Everyone has the right to curse, but most are happy to waive that right when it might be seen as appropriate to refrain from cursing.

If people want to say their reasons for objecting to the afternoon exclusion of these students are nothing to do with racism, then at least be honest enough to say it's also nothing to do with freedom of speech and human rights either.

I don't think Miles for example is a racist. But he is trying to argue a very petty point imo, arguing for the rights and freedoms to do something which is utterly meaningless in the big scheme of things. The right to drape the American flag around your body on Cinci de Mayo day is not really a fundamental human right imo. And clearly the reason he feels this way is becuase of some antagonism towards the way he believes ethnic minorites should behave in somebody else's country.

So there IS clearly a feeling of some hostility present towards minorites in general and that they should in his own words ' consider deportation' if they don't like being made to feel unwelcome.

And in the case of the school celebrations, the principle obviously felt that this was a day for the school to come together and celebrate unity and that such hostile, negative attitudes were not welcome so he gave them the choice of either changing into some other clothing or else taking the afternoon off.

It's really not a big deal, just like telling someone that if they don't stop swearing at the Town Hall meeting that they will be removed.

You people kill me. Nameless you admit that these people wearing the Canadian flags on the St. Jean Baptiste day are doing it just to start trouble, yet you still believe this has a place in a classroom?

People are losing sight of this being at a school.

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

You have to question the mindset of the kids wanting to wear the flag on THIS day of all days.

I hate political correctness but I actually agree with it here. Those kids were up to no good.

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....have you lost your fucking mind?

Since when is it punishable to rock the stars and stripes (and in AMERICA too)? It's not like they said anything bad or acted poorly (that I know of).

If this happened to me I'd raise holy hell...I have more reason to hate on Stinko de Mayo too....the French losing that battle to the Mexicans kept the Confederates from getting war supplies to fight off the Yankees in the War of Northern Aggression

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

....have you lost your fucking mind?

Since when is it punishable to rock the stars and stripes (and in AMERICA too)? It's not like they said anything bad or acted poorly (that I know of).

If this happened to me I'd raise holy hell...I have more reason to hate on Stinko de Mayo too....the French losing that battle to the Mexicans kept the Confederates from getting war supplies to fight off the Yankees in the War of Northern Aggression

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Well that was predictable.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

....have you lost your fucking mind?

Since when is it punishable to rock the stars and stripes (and in AMERICA too)? It's not like they said anything bad or acted poorly (that I know of).

If this happened to me I'd raise holy hell...I have more reason to hate on Stinko de Mayo too....the French losing that battle to the Mexicans kept the Confederates from getting war supplies to fight off the Yankees in the War of Northern Aggression

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Nothing you have said here is of direct relevance to the debate. Like I said, you HAVE to question the mindset of these boys. Without going on a rant about how much you hate the Mexicans for the way they shaped your history, tell me.... Question why do it? On this day?

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Originally Posted by ono

Well that was predictable.

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And hilarious.

Because we all know it has seriously drove him berserk.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Jim, Bilbo, Ono & Amat. It's obvious why they were doing it. Not to mention wearing a t-shirt with a flag on it is lame unless it's affiliated with sports. But really come on. If I turned up to the US on Independence Day with a t-shirt with Osama's face on it* (and only wore it on that day), what would you think my intentions were?

* For all the thickos whose reading comprehension is terrible, I am NOT saying I'd ever wear an Osama t-shirt, it's an analogy.

To answer Amat and Bilbo and Jaz's last argument:

1) Some peoples are coming to the st-Jean Baptiste parade with Canadian flags for various reasons, one being sometimes to show that historically, the french got their rear end kicked by the english an some do it as a gesture of protest against the idea that Quebec might split from Canada someday (which is what many french Canadian wants). Peoples have deeply the right to express their feelings and opinions, if they wage a flag they do not hurt me, if they say an insult they are idiot but I am even dumber if I fire back with violence, period.

2) These kids, if they did just wear american stuff didn't do nothing wrong if expressing that they are in the U.S and to remind the others celebrating their national holiday that they were still living in the US, to me, there is nothing deeply wrong with it, could a bit provocative but as long as they didn't act aggressively or did something hurtful to the mexican culture (burning a flag, stomping a Mexican icon etc), is walks the thin line.

3) article 19 of the human right chart stipulates about the freedom of speech (which is good everywhere normally) and they didn't trespassed any borders if they just showed pacifically their beliefs. It is also in line with every rules of the first amendment guaranteed by the US chart. These rights apply as well in a school, by the way. If they did their stuff pacifically and haven't been aggressive, even if it is not entirely ethically correct perhaps to do so it was still within the limits of decency. Their demonstration wasn't racist, it wasn't violent, it didn't stop peoples from celebrating, In these circumstances, I really do not see the problem. Wearing flags for no reason is lame, sure, but shouldn't be forbidden for such kind of events.

4) to Jaz, the Ben Laden argument is not very good in my opinion because there is a difference between wearing the flag from the country you're in and displaying a mass murderer who threats to annihilate every american citizens using any means available. This is just not the same kind of symbol neither provocation at all.

5) If the kids would have been aggressive, violent or destroying any kind of mexican icons, that would be all another kind of story.

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

I'd love to research Canadian History because I know nothing about this country except it has some breathtaking scenery and that it's a bit like the USA only less violent and possibly a bit more articulated ???

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I don't know about articulation but it is definitely less violent, we have nothing that comes close to the Bronx, the hot spots of L.A or Detroit. We have our load of things not to be proud of though, starting by how the natives file has been dealt with how we're dealing our drinkable water sources but there is definitely a lot of places that are worth to be seen, especially for the nature lovers.