Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
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Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
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Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Not that many actually do, but you obviously don't understand the hierarchy of how the judicial and legislation systems works in the US. The other thing you fail to realize is that Arum is a Harvard graduate and is board a certified Lawyer with experience in the USDJ otherwise you wouldn't be calling him stupid. Typically legal terms are specifically designed to be vague so that it leaves room for interpretation from each side of an argument.
The use of USADA or WADA as a third parties to administer anti-doping testing of a specif event is not the same thing. Arum point is valid. USADA and WADA are completely different organizations, they have different goals as organizations and exist due to different circumstances. WADA's funds are basically guaranteed, while USADA's funds could end at the next grant decision.
Wow, yeah I've no idea how the judicial system works particularly on an English common-law principle which both our countries use. I'm well aware that Arum studied law at Harvard, it gets mentioned in every other article about him. But, clearly you're quite protective of Cuddly Ol' Unkie Bob, so would you rather I substitute stupid (which imo has no relation to somebody's educational achievements) with lying? Corrupt? Filthy? Let me know which one is appropriate.
You're second paragraph is similarly vague. They are different organisations, but are their goals really different? They both seem to be heavily in the ethos of preventing cheating in sport. Sounds like the same goal to me. The point is that if Arum gives the contract to WADA, they will simply assign it to USADA as the designated NADO for the US. You're talking about funds & how they exist to fudge the issue, but you're not saying why WADA are ok, but USADA are somehow corrupt?
I could not agree more that Bob is a corrupt lying greedy man.
Arum already stated he has reservations about USADA's travis tygart. Where have you ever heard an Athlete refereed to as "the clean athlete"? That actually implies other Athlete(s) are dirty. If he had said "He has always tested clean" or "He never tested positive" it wouldn't imply anything. I don't care what agency does testing it's all redundant anyway because NSAC does just fine. Now when you have to prove your worth to congress in order to survive financially vs just concentrate on implementing policy, I'd say they have different goals. WADA is a staple organization not having to worry about budget.
A little reading material:
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/progs/pla.../jenkins08.pdf
I'd also say when you have to ask for twice the annual grant as a budget to go after high profile athletes, you have altered your agenda. (They started with an initial two million dollar grant budget 2002.) Every athlete should be treated exactly the same when it comes to testing and prosecuting. They sound like some high priced attorney looking to make a name not an anti-doping agency.
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
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Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
IF floyd returns to the ring against Ortiz looking like the same floyd that beat Shane Moseley, Then neither pacroid or Khan stand a chance in hell. TBH I'd still bet on floyd if he had to fight them both in the same night.
The only chance either of them have is if floyd comes back looking old. But if that does happen then floyd would retire.
Floyd will only fight either man if he feels 100% and if he's 100% he destroys both. Easily.
haha shane didnt throw shit, and was scared to death. pacman will press and punish gayweather. floyd will run and potshot with meaningless punches.
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
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Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Not looking good for Mr Arum, and as always this is all being covered by no one, not ESPN not anything, just mainly us boxing forum heads.
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
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Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Well I guess that's that cleared up then ;D
So the USADA excuse is out of the window, what's Bob going to come up with next?
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
I take Pacs side on this one. Floyd is the one being the little bitch. Floyd could have gone down as the GOAT if he had just fought Hatton at 140, Margarito at 147, Cotto at 147, Williams at 147 and Pacquaio at 147 before someone else beat them. Floyd would have beaten them all. But he chose to be a bitch. I really dont see how Pac can beat Floyd. But again Floyd is acting like a scared clown. Just fight the guy, you will win! I would hope Pac would beat Floyd but if I had to bet the house it would be on Floyd no question.
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
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Originally Posted by
Hunter
I take Pacs side on this one. Floyd is the one being the little bitch. Floyd could have gone down as the GOAT if he had just fought Hatton at 140, Margarito at 147, Cotto at 147, Williams at 147 and Pacquaio at 147 before someone else beat them. Floyd would have beaten them all. But he chose to be a bitch. I really dont see how Pac can beat Floyd. But again Floyd is acting like a scared clown. Just fight the guy, you will win! I would hope Pac would beat Floyd but if I had to bet the house it would be on Floyd no question.
Yes because Mayweather uses USADA testing to duck opponents, especially hane Mosley and Victor Ortiz, it's not like if Pacquiao's camp didn't accept and then go back on the drug testing that the fight would have happened, I mean look what happened when Mosley and Ortiz accepted those terms.. oh wait!! :cool:
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
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Originally Posted by
Hunter
I take Pacs side on this one. Floyd is the one being the little bitch. Floyd could have gone down as the GOAT if he had just fought Hatton at 140, Margarito at 147, Cotto at 147, Williams at 147 and Pacquaio at 147 before someone else beat them. Floyd would have beaten them all. But he chose to be a bitch. I really dont see how Pac can beat Floyd. But again Floyd is acting like a scared clown. Just fight the guy, you will win! I would hope Pac would beat Floyd but if I had to bet the house it would be on Floyd no question.
Yes because Mayweather uses USADA testing to duck opponents, especially hane Mosley and Victor Ortiz, it's not like if Pacquiao's camp didn't accept and then go back on the drug testing that the fight would have happened, I mean look what happened when Mosley and Ortiz accepted those terms.. oh wait!! :cool:
I for one believes that the extra tests is not warranted as of the moment but with all "these" news coming out and Arum and company looking like a fool I really don't know what to say anymore:-\:angryxo4::angryxo4:
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
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Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Well I guess that's that cleared up then ;D
So the USADA excuse is out of the window, what's Bob going to come up with next?
OMG, I'm now struggling to put this all in perspective. Let me see if this is right:
1. So Bob is saying that HE has a issue with the 'neutrality' of the USADA and suggests that the WADA should be used instead.
2. Then Victor Fuckin Conte pipes up and says that the USADA does not do any type of drug testing themselves, they simply refer the testing out to a WADA accredited laboratory.
3. The USADA media relations manager, Annie Skinner then stated in response: "No other organization in the US does the type of gold standard testing that that we do. Personally, at least, I've never heard of any third party organization that performs the WADA approved standards to the same degree that we do."
Which is only opinion of course and still does not solve the 'neutrality' with regards to the USADA or more specifically Senior Managing Director & General Counsel to USADA,Travis Tygart. But then...
4. Senior Media Relations & Communications Manager to the WADA, Terence O'Rorke unequivocally AGREES with USADA media relations manager Annie Skinner!!! :o
So where does that leave Bob? :-\
Anyway... Here's a lovely little video to watch while you ponder the wonder...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE_JFWSdO2g
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Well I guess that's that cleared up then ;D
So the USADA excuse is out of the window, what's Bob going to come up with next?
OMG, I'm now struggling to put this all in perspective. Let me see if this is right:
1. So Bob is saying that HE has a issue with the 'neutrality' of the USADA and suggests that the WADA should be used instead.
2. Then Victor Fuckin Conte pipes up and says that the USADA does not do any type of drug testing themselves, they simply refer the testing out to a WADA accredited laboratory.
3. The USADA media relations manager, Annie Skinner then stated in response: "No other organization in the US does the type of gold standard testing that that we do. Personally, at least, I've never heard of any third party organization that performs the WADA approved standards to the same degree that we do."
Which is only opinion of course and still does not solve the 'neutrality' with regards to the USADA or more specifically Senior Managing Director & General Counsel to USADA,Travis Tygart. But then...
4. Senior Media Relations & Communications Manager to the WADA, Terence O'Rorke unequivocally AGREES with USADA media relations manager Annie Skinner!!! :o
So where does that leave Bob? :-\
Anyway... Here's a lovely little video to watch while you ponder the wonder...
If you have any exposure to what the Hague is, then that is model on how WADA is setup. They are similar to a corporate office that basically doesn't have facilities to do the actual work but train branch offices (like franchises) to do the work. They also certify outside agencies to do the specialty work. (i.e. make approve the labs certifying that they meet the standards testing for PED's)
I didn't think Arum ever mentioned WADA as a administrative testing agency but rather specified an Olympic testing organization in he press release or something like that, but someone pointed out an article by Michael Marley and he quoted Arum as saying WADA would do the testing. I find it hard to believe Arum wouldn't understand out the system is setup and the relationship between WADA and USADA so I'm guessing he was trying to talk down to Marley although it's possible.
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
I'm already clear on how WADA works (Nice video above) but who or what constitutes an 'Olympic testing organization' besides WADA?
If I google 'olympic anti doping agency', WADDA comes up... So who else exactly does Bob wanna use??? Who else is there?
How many acronyms can there be! lol
To my very limited knowledge, the USADA are recognised as the most capable organization, or maybe the only organization capable of implementing Olympic testing protocols. Is this correct?
I gotta be honest, I think Bob has fucked up here...
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
I'm already clear on how WADA works but who or what constitutes an 'Olympic testing organization' besides WADA?
If I google 'olympic anti doping agency', WADDA comes up... So who else exactly does Bob wanna use??? Who else is there?
How many acronyms can there be! lol
To my very limited knowledge, the USADA are recognised as the most capable organization, or maybe the only organization capable of implementing Olympic testing protocols. Is this correct?
I gotta be honest, I think Bob has fucked up here...
(Any anti-doping organization is capable) or can be a signatory of the rules or policies implemented under WADA, but typically countries only use one. In this case, it doesn't matter who you use because what Arum originally said was that the hierarchy would have to come under the Athletic Commission so that there would be accountability should a fighter be found dirty. What is important is the standards WADA uses for administering the testing. Thus you have Floyd's request for OST. The truth is Floyd's style of testing does not follow WADA policy. It is extremely excessive to the point of being harassment by comparison.
Personally I find the whole issue is rather blindingly absurd. Governments make rules for the people that follow the rules. People that don't follow the rules don't care what rules you use because they are not bound by them. So in reality is, it only makes the people under the system jump through more hoops. Nothing gets better in the end and you haven't really prevented any more people from using other means not listed in the rules.
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
You have to excuse me for all the questions. I figure you are the authority on the subject and I simply like to question authority but what is 'Floyds style of testing'? I thought he wanted Olympic style testing. Would USADA actually action protocols other than those set by the WADA?
Also, in saying 'harassment by comparison' I assume you are merely referring to random testing as opposed to scheduled testing?
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hunter
I take Pacs side on this one. Floyd is the one being the little bitch. Floyd could have gone down as the GOAT if he had just fought Hatton at 140, Margarito at 147, Cotto at 147, Williams at 147 and Pacquaio at 147 before someone else beat them. Floyd would have beaten them all. But he chose to be a bitch. I really dont see how Pac can beat Floyd. But again Floyd is acting like a scared clown. Just fight the guy, you will win! I would hope Pac would beat Floyd but if I had to bet the house it would be on Floyd no question.
He does that a lot.
:cool:
Re: Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'
Well, 2 things:
1) I agree with Conte when he says that athletes should be tested off season too, which means that if Pac and FLoyd are to have a USDA type of testing, it should start before they both go in full speed for the right.
2)Even if Uncle Bob has a problem with Tygart and Floyd's relationship, I fail to see how the "friendship" they might have can discredit the whole agency. As far as I know, Tygart doesn't make/control the tests and neither does he handle the samplers, he's the chief executor and it's Andrew K Morrison who's the director in chief of the testings. I really fail to see where is the problem except if you suspect that the whole analyse department is corrupted under the words of Tygart and personally, I don't buy such crap.
