So are you saying Old George couldn't punch? I think Evander Holyfield would beg to differ on that topic. Holyfield said "Foreman hit me so hard it made my teeth rattle".....I haven't heard him say much about Tyson.
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So are you saying Old George couldn't punch? I think Evander Holyfield would beg to differ on that topic. Holyfield said "Foreman hit me so hard it made my teeth rattle".....I haven't heard him say much about Tyson.
I know George can punch just Moorer was very fragile, he made Audley Harrison look hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Whether 100 years from now or a 1000 years. There will never be another ali..but there will be plenty of vlads. And that says it all.
:-\ ummmm yeah no, I don't think so. There's not going to be another champion this dominant for a while. There will be other champions, there will other title holders, but I think you're missing the point that Wlad could match or even break Joe Louis' 25 consecutive successful title defenses and that my friend is pretty fucking amazing....as in it's been over 60 years since it has happenedQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
Wlad has never been a true dominant champion. You can't be the no.1 without 100% establishing it.
Unfortunately Vitali's presence has prevented Wlad from ever being crowned THE true heavyweight champ.
Vitali might have slaughtered him, for all we know. And one loss completely changes everything.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Is that your only argument? So Wlad has a brother and has refused to fight his brother and vice versa and THAT hinders his legacy??? That's bullshit is what it is.
Vitali will retire and Wlad will run the division by himself for as long as he likes at this rate
Wladimir is avoiding Vitali.
Wlad will always be second best to Vitali. Although Vitali quit against Byrd, he gave Lewis one of his hardest fights and hasnt been embarrasingly dropped like a yoyo;D
It's not an argument it's a 100% truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Is that your only argument? So Wlad has a brother and has refused to fight his brother and vice versa and THAT hinders his legacy??? That's bullshit is what it is.
Vitali will retire and Wlad will run the division by himself for as long as he likes at this rate
Their legacies have been harmed because they couldn't meet after clearly establishing themselves as the top two heavyweights in the world. It's not just a slight passing of champions either. They have been top dogs for YEARS!!!
You can't claim to be champion without fighting your closest rival. The worst thing that ever happened to Wlad was Vitali coming back from retirement. Wlad would have been an absolute standout champion, at this current point in time, without Vitali's presence.
However, we'll never know, in the era of Wlad and Vitali, who the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world was. Fact.
Very true^^.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterIt's not an argument it's a 100% truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Is that your only argument? So Wlad has a brother and has refused to fight his brother and vice versa and THAT hinders his legacy??? That's bullshit is what it is.
Vitali will retire and Wlad will run the division by himself for as long as he likes at this rate
Their legacies have been harmed because they couldn't meet after clearly establishing themselves as the top two heavyweights in the world. It's not just a slight passing of champions either. They have been top dogs for YEARS!!!
You can't claim to be champion without fighting your closest rival. The worst thing that ever happened to Wlad was Vitali coming back from retirement. Wlad would have been an absolute standout champion, at this current point in time, without Vitali's presence.
However, we'll never know, in the era of Wlad and Vitali, who the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world was. Fact.
Its a Shame there brothers.
We will never know who the top dog is of this era...until haye beats vitali..lol
Anybody that thinks vitali would walk through wlad has been enjoying too many sensimilla hit's out of there best friends giant skull bong!!
This version of vitali we see now (past couple of years!) no chance! Wlad would have stopped briggs in 6 rounds, johnson in 10 and chisora in 8. I can't see vitali walking through this version of WK, He doesn't have the 'Dog' in him anymore to really hurt this version of wlad...
Wlad has the better physical gifts. Don't base this fight on chins.
You're on drugs if you think Vitali beats Wlad in a mythical fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
However,
It's perfectly rational to state that - Wlad KO's Briggs, Johnson and Chisora in mythical fights?
You need to give this another think mate. ;)
I think the disparity in footwork, foot speed and handspeed would be dramatic. Wlad would have no trouble at all finding the target.
Current WK Beat's Current Vitali.
Wlads advantages: One-shot power, he's a sharper, snappier, crisper puncher. Far more accurate, far superior timing. Better range control, reach advantage, superior jab. Quicker of hand and foot, better footwork, ties up better inside, defensively sounder in terms of his ability to block and parry shots as opposed to just moving out of range or slipping them like Vitali. Greater variety of punches, better combinations when he lets them go, better punching form.
Vitali's advantages? His chin! And the disparity is not as great as people like to believe.
Vitali has little chance of out-boxing his brother who is the superior boxer. If he brawls, people assume that his chin will hold up and Wlad's won't. If he brawls, Wlad will be landing power punches that hurt Vitali and back him up, and he's far more likely to be landing them. Wlad's range control and patient approach would see Vitali's work-rate lower aswell because he'd be setting traps that Vitali would be well aware of.
Interestingly, neither fighter has beaten anyone nearly of the caliber of the other. Prime for prime would be interesting! I'm leaning towards Wladimir (Emmanuel Steward version!) TKO'ING him!!
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
That's why Wlad has never been THE bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
"Mythical fights" is that like with unicorns and fairies????Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterExactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
That's why Wlad has never been THE bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Wladimir Klitschko is a Great heavyweight Champion.....wait for it......FACT. Just because you refuse to fight your own brother doesn't mean your legacy suffers. Also if the amount of successful title defenses Wlad has achieved was EASY then wouldn't Joe Louis' record already be broken? It has been 60 years guys.
To compare Louis with Wlad is utterly ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong"Mythical fights" is that like with unicorns and fairies????Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterExactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
That's why Wlad has never been THE bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Wladimir Klitschko is a Great heavyweight Champion.....wait for it......FACT. Just because you refuse to fight your own brother doesn't mean your legacy suffers. Also if the amount of successful title defenses Wlad has achieved was EASY then wouldn't Joe Louis' record already be broken? It has been 60 years guys.
Louis exisited in an era of ONE champion. He was the 100% indisputable champion of the world.
Wlad has existed in an era of FOUR possible champions. Never at any point in Wlad's career has he simultaneously held all four titles. He never beat the lineal champion. The closest he's ever got to being a "legit" champion was when he beat Chagaev. The Ring magazine recognised that fight, between the no.1 and no.3, as the crowning of a NEW champion.
So Wlad has made FIVE successful defenses of the heavyweight title. That's it (although, of course, you have to completely ignore the fact that his strongest rival has been present throughout this time).
This is not a slight on Wlad. He's just very unlucky that his brother, who established himself as a top dog, was around at the same time.