Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Andre was so well rounded and physically/mentally strong.
No outstanding skill in one area but very good in all.
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Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Andre was so well rounded and physically/mentally strong.
No outstanding skill in one area but very good in all.
Good post, and I only brought up the greats in those divisions because at the end of a top fighter's career you want to think about obviously what was, but also the what if's the imagine if ______ scenarios....it just adds another level to discuss. I certainly didn't mean to side track conversation and just gloss over Andre Ward's achievements of which there are many.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think as much as Andre Ward accomplished, as talented as he showed himself to be, I think he could conceivably hang with anyone of those fighters. I don't think he'd get blasted out early by anybody for certain, he had RJJ type skill, but a B-Hop mindset and fighting style. His hands were fast, he's very athletic, he's got a bit of pop not so much that it's really eye catching, but it was certainly enough to take out an opponent.
So what next for Andre Ward? Does he become a commentator or does he do something different?
Wasn't addressing you with that post, more just a generic/non-specific post. I like hypothetical match ups, was just distinguishing that people shouldn't get wrapped around the "who would win" argument and forget about the "who accomplished more" argument. I agree with your observations about the RJJ/BHOP blend of skill/mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongGood post, and I only brought up the greats in those divisions because at the end of a top fighter's career you want to think about obviously what was, but also the what if's the imagine if ______ scenarios....it just adds another level to discuss. I certainly didn't mean to side track conversation and just gloss over Andre Ward's achievements of which there are many.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think as much as Andre Ward accomplished, as talented as he showed himself to be, I think he could conceivably hang with anyone of those fighters. I don't think he'd get blasted out early by anybody for certain, he had RJJ type skill, but a B-Hop mindset and fighting style. His hands were fast, he's very athletic, he's got a bit of pop not so much that it's really eye catching, but it was certainly enough to take out an opponent.
So what next for Andre Ward? Does he become a commentator or does he do something different?
Andre is VERY talented, intelligent, and articulate, so really the sky is the limit for him. With his mindset and will to succeed, anything he sets his mind to is possible and he will be successful in whatever he chooses. I see him commentating and acting initially, and think he will go on to be a great steward of the sport. BHOP has been my favorite fighter since his draw with Segundo Mercado, but for some reason, I'm more affected watching Ward retire than I was watching Hop retire.
I was just posting to clarify no worries manQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodWasn't addressing you with that post, more just a generic/non-specific post. I like hypothetical match ups, was just distinguishing that people shouldn't get wrapped around the "who would win" argument and forget about the "who accomplished more" argument. I agree with your observations about the RJJ/BHOP blend of skill/mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongGood post, and I only brought up the greats in those divisions because at the end of a top fighter's career you want to think about obviously what was, but also the what if's the imagine if ______ scenarios....it just adds another level to discuss. I certainly didn't mean to side track conversation and just gloss over Andre Ward's achievements of which there are many.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think as much as Andre Ward accomplished, as talented as he showed himself to be, I think he could conceivably hang with anyone of those fighters. I don't think he'd get blasted out early by anybody for certain, he had RJJ type skill, but a B-Hop mindset and fighting style. His hands were fast, he's very athletic, he's got a bit of pop not so much that it's really eye catching, but it was certainly enough to take out an opponent.
So what next for Andre Ward? Does he become a commentator or does he do something different?
Andre is VERY talented, intelligent, and articulate, so really the sky is the limit for him. With his mindset and will to succeed, anything he sets his mind to is possible and he will be successful in whatever he chooses. I see him commentating and acting initially, and think he will go on to be a great steward of the sport. BHOP has been my favorite fighter since his draw with Segundo Mercado, but for some reason, I'm more affected watching Ward retire than I was watching Hop retire.
He may not have had any outstanding physical skill but he did have outstanding ring IQ and adaptabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by impWell said.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Andre was so well rounded and physically/mentally strong.
No outstanding skill in one area but very good in all.
I get the feeling that most of the people posting here are white British which is why Calzaghe is being ranked so highly. If he was African American he'd be getting just as much shit as Ward and Floyd (do on here) but people are bias. Anyone with any sense knows a prime Jones completely embarrasses any version of Calzaghe.
How do you KNOW Roy completely embarrasses a prime Joe C.? You THINK Roy would definitely win, but you don't KNOW that he would since they never fought each other (during their primes). A week before the fight people KNEW Tyson would beat Douglas. They KNEW he would beat Evander. A week before the fight people KNEW Tito, Pavilik, and Tarver would beat Hop. People KNEW Jeff Lacy would beat Joe C.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
The point is, you're opinion is that Roy would definitely win, and you MAY be correct. It isn't a given, by any stretch of the imagination though. Joe was an elite fighter, and other than a weight drained, ill prepared Toney, Roy didn't fight, let alone dominate elite fighters. He looked invincible vs Glenn Kelleys, Bryant Brannon, Vinny Paz (former lightweight by the way), Antoine Byrd...etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodHow do you KNOW Roy completely embarrasses a prime Joe C.? You THINK Roy would definitely win, but you don't KNOW that he would since they never fought each other. A week before the fight people KNEW Tyson would beat Douglas. They KNEW he would beat Evander. A week before the fight people KNEW Tito, Pavilik, and Tarver would beat Hop. People KNEW Jeff Lacy would beat Joe C.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
The point is, you're opinion is that Roy would definitely win, and you MAY be correct. It isn't a given, by any stretch of the imagination though. Joe was an elite fighter, and other than a weight drained, ill prepared Toney, Roy didn't fight, let alone dominate elite fighters. He looked invincible vs Glenn Kelleys, Bryant Brannon, Vinny Paz (former lightweight by the way), Antoine Byrd...etc.
A bit of bragging but I won money on all those fights except Tyson/Douglas. I was too young to bet money on fights then because I didn't have any. And I never would have bet on Douglas anyway. But every other fight I KNEW and I was right 😉
NopeQuote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
Don't go trusting your feelings then. If Joe Calzaghe was African American he would not be Joe Calzaghe would he? Ward and Floyd don't get shit because they are American or because they are black, there are scores of Black and American fighters whom people love. Floyd was great but he along with Ward is a bit of a dick. You can be born anywhere and still be a dick, which is how you mange despite being British.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I can understand people thinking Floyd is a dick but Ward doesn't come across that way..Wards style is just not fan friendly to the majority.
Ward Calzaghe is a 50/50 fight, got no problem with anyone going one way or the other on that. In terms of resume Ward trumps Calzaghe pretty comfortably in both weight classes for me, it's pretty clear cut. Olympic Gold, Super six, the double over Kovalev.
I'll say this for Joe. He beat a better version of Kessler than Ward or Froch did. Joe took something from Kessler. Not on then scale of Lacy who was stripped bare and sent packing, but he made a dent on him.
Some will then counter and say "how good was Jeff Lacy anyway?"
Kessler and Lacy were JC best wins.
Ward had far less professional fights but tougher opponents.
Ward can walk away happy..and so did JC.
I disagree with this one. Calzaghe was in some way a mirror image of Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraProbably had a thread to itself in the past, but as much as I like and rate Calzaghe, Ward beats him prime for prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe is up there with Joe Calzaghe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Fight 3mins each round of the entire fight (unlike Kovalev)
Fast Hands
Granite Chin
Adjust style mid fight (as shown versus undefeated Kessler)
Dig deep to win (versus eubank)
Cold hearted bastard who hated to lose
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
"How good was Jeff Lacy anyway?" comes after the fight.
At the time, he was perceived as very dangerous at SM who was going to blow Calzaghe away