Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

I worked with my old friend Cus keeping an eye on Mike & Teddy back when Mike was a J.O amatuer. i worked his corners at the Colo. Springs Olympic Training center and at all the regional tourneys! I know how tall mike was, grew into and weighed!!!!! I weighed him IN at ALL those events!!!

I met Rocky Marciano twice and he was simular to Jack Dempsey who I met twice in that at 5'11 and under 200 as active fighters they both would tower over Mike!!!! Dempsey was atleast 220lbs at 60 yrs old and his appearance was HUGE!! Thick hands and huge shoulders.

Now I'm not getting into a bunch of crap with people who know of these men by reading and pictures!!! I don't care what you think and if you really gave a damn about learning something about these men you'd think you would listen to someone who has met them and in Tysons case knew him personally when he was 14 yrs old till he was 20!!! If this BS styarts on this site too then I'm out of here, I worked in boxing for over 45 years and because my work preceeded the damn net and you kids don't think you know me doesn't mean I didn't happen, get it!!!! You want to talk boxing????
Methods, training, techniques, business, matchmaking, managing????? Just ask, you don't know what I know if you don't want to learn then just avoid my posts but don't think your calling me a liar and not getting your BS called out!!
i post my real name and my location, if you want to sing it just bring it!!! Sooooo tired of these internet people who have never done what they're trying to talk about!!!! Ray Corso

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Originally Posted by ray corso

I worked with my old friend Cus keeping an eye on Mike & Teddy back when Mike was a J.O amatuer. i worked his corners at the Colo. Springs Olympic Training center and at all the regional tourneys! I know how tall mike was, grew into and weighed!!!!! I weighed him IN at ALL those events!!!

I met Rocky Marciano twice and he was simular to Jack Dempsey who I met twice in that at 5'11 and under 200 as active fighters they both would tower over Mike!!!! Dempsey was atleast 220lbs at 60 yrs old and his appearance was HUGE!! Thick hands and huge shoulders.

Now I'm not getting into a bunch of crap with people who know of these men by reading and pictures!!! I don't care what you think and if you really gave a damn about learning something about these men you'd think you would listen to someone who has met them and in Tysons case knew him personally when he was 14 yrs old till he was 20!!! If this BS styarts on this site too then I'm out of here, I worked in boxing for over 45 years and because my work preceeded the damn net and you kids don't think you know me doesn't mean I didn't happen, get it!!!! You want to talk boxing????
Methods, training, techniques, business, matchmaking, managing????? Just ask, you don't know what I know if you don't want to learn then just avoid my posts but don't think your calling me a liar and not getting your BS called out!!
i post my real name and my location, if you want to sing it just bring it!!! Sooooo tired of these internet people who have never done what they're trying to talk about!!!! Ray Corso

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That awesome if all this is true.

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Originally Posted by ray corso

I worked with my old friend Cus keeping an eye on Mike & Teddy back when Mike was a J.O amatuer. i worked his corners at the Colo. Springs Olympic Training center and at all the regional tourneys! I know how tall mike was, grew into and weighed!!!!! I weighed him IN at ALL those events!!!

I met Rocky Marciano twice and he was simular to Jack Dempsey who I met twice in that at 5'11 and under 200 as active fighters they both would tower over Mike!!!! Dempsey was atleast 220lbs at 60 yrs old and his appearance was HUGE!! Thick hands and huge shoulders.

Now I'm not getting into a bunch of crap with people who know of these men by reading and pictures!!! I don't care what you think and if you really gave a damn about learning something about these men you'd think you would listen to someone who has met them and in Tysons case knew him personally when he was 14 yrs old till he was 20!!! If this BS styarts on this site too then I'm out of here, I worked in boxing for over 45 years and because my work preceeded the damn net and you kids don't think you know me doesn't mean I didn't happen, get it!!!! You want to talk boxing????
Methods, training, techniques, business, matchmaking, managing????? Just ask, you don't know what I know if you don't want to learn then just avoid my posts but don't think your calling me a liar and not getting your BS called out!!
i post my real name and my location, if you want to sing it just bring it!!! Sooooo tired of these internet people who have never done what they're trying to talk about!!!! Ray Corso

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"This BS" probably starts on any site you post like this on, genius. Somehow I doubt you'd be terribly missed anywhere.

Then again what do you bring to the discussion! Wheres your gym at, who have you worked with? What your name?? Who are you? Ray Corso



who are you the Ghost of Muddy Waters?

I'm not pretending to be anybody. It's indeed very cool if you have worked with top men in the sport, but there's no need to be such an exclusionary douchebag about it in saying so. Take your blood pressure meds already, yeesh.

Can't answer my questions about YOU? You want me to respond to you but you have NO answer to me? Take your "dreaming about boxing" pills and stop being such a punk azz kid! irst off my comments weren't directed to you so why confront my legitimacy?
If you want to know some of my knowledge why not think of a some intelligent questions about the sport!! If you can, your probably just another "records reader" or makes comparisons of common opponents!!! Just another mouth flapping in the wind! Ray.

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Originally Posted by ray corso

Can't answer my questions about YOU? You want me to respond to you but you have NO answer to me? Take your "dreaming about boxing" pills and stop being such a punk azz kid! irst off my comments weren't directed to you so why confront my legitimacy?
If you want to know some of my knowledge why not think of a some intelligent questions about the sport!! If you can, your probably just another "records reader" or makes comparisons of common opponents!!! Just another mouth flapping in the wind! Ray.

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I didn't claim to be anyone or bring my personal merits into the thread out of the blue for fucks sake. I don't end all of my posts with my real name like a wingnut either. I'm nobody but a boxing fan to anyone here, and I'm sure you know infinitely more about the sport than I do.

I was only commenting on the way you appear to handle perceived conflict, which is extremely counter productive to say the least. People would be a lot more receptive to what you may know if you didn't come across as such a tool;).

The consistent disrespect shown on Boxing forums is why men on the inside of the sport don't post on forums very much. They figure there's just too many disrespectful idiots on Boxing/MMA forums, PERIOD.


And it's true...

Yet if you find a solid site like the old cyber boxing zone forum (on which the curtain came down recently), the discussion can seem too dry for young fellas...

EDIT:
It's unfortunate. When you get guys that were in camp with Ali, or Frazier, or Hurricane Carter, or Tyson, or whoever, or were refs in high-profile fights, the thing that so many young idiots do in forums is disrespect them and they leave. Men from inside the sport have so many tales to tell, so much information to be had, and for free because they like talkin' Boxing, yet so many young idiots who call themselves Boxing fans cause the inside men to leave because of the young $#!t-snaps' collective consistent disrespect and arrogance...

if your get so upset just avoid the posts! I don't want or need to hear your opinions about my posts, you don't know anything about the sport your just another kid who wants to vervally spar from the safety of your screen! Just bypass ME!!! Then you won't have to deal with ME at all.
If you haven't any pride in your "real name' thats a personal problem but again "I don't care" I do care if some punk azz kid talks shit so shut the fuck up and isolate my posts from your eyes then you don't have to deal with it!!
Continue your boxing education on boxrec and reading boxers bios! Done with you, grow up!
Ray

There is no reason you can't share what you know in a more civil manner is all I mean, nobody attacked you or said anything outlandish to begin with.. If you know firsthand that Tyson wasn't as tall as Marciano just say you've met them both and know so, that's awesome and nobody will dispute it. What on earth about that set you off so much anyways:confused:

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Originally Posted by p4pking

There is no reason you can't share what you know in a more civil manner is all I mean, nobody attacked you or said anything outlandish to begin with.. If you know firsthand that Tyson wasn't as tall as Marciano just say you've met them both and know so, that's awesome and nobody will dispute it. What on earth about that set you off so much anyways:confused:

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I must say when I first started to read his first post about Tyson and Marciano's height I thought hell yeah that's awesome. And then as I kept reading all the negativity and insults it kinda made me think it was just someone trolling.

So im still at a toss up about it. How he explains Marciano's size and stuff like that just makes it seem believeable to me. If it wasn't for the negativity I wouldn't came close to second guessing what he said.

I'm quite sure he's not trolling at all, and it's very cool that he has worked closely in the sport as I said. He's just apparently very bitter about something and would rather insult people than inform them, which is pretty hurting.

Name calling?

started here; master-#156/ cambay-#162/ p4pK-#163/ same #165

Theres the name calling and theres the attitudes, long before I replied with any agitation!
Theres a few on every forum who enjoy my experience and I share with them.
Then theres the younger folks who want to verbally spar with me because they're on a boxing forum for the wrong reasons!
So now tell me who started this BS? Ray Corso

Well, your post was #161..... Just sayin:-X;D

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Originally Posted by ray corso

Name calling?

started here; master-#156/ cambay-#162/ p4pK-#163/ same #165

Theres the name calling and theres the attitudes, long before I replied with any agitation!
Theres a few on every forum who enjoy my experience and I share with them.
Then theres the younger folks who want to verbally spar with me because they're on a boxing forum for the wrong reasons!
So now tell me who started this BS? Ray Corso

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But if it really is all true then that is awesome lol.

Master said to quit making things up to suit your fighter. And then put in a smiley face. He disagreed but didn't insult. Everything was still in good conversation.

I understand how the internet is. There are people just waiting to talk trash behind a computer screen. Its easy to get defensive on the internet especially considering how many people are just trying to make others upset.

I apologize if I offended you I certainly didn't mean to. And I really don't think anyone else did either. Most people on here are just up for good debate.

Who cares about the height, we're talking a matter of inches, I don't see how that would matter in the fight.

Tyson kills Marciano because, athletically, he was head and shoulders above Rocky and anybody Rocky fought, and not only that, skill and attribute-wise he was superior to Rocky in just about every way, except probably heart and stamina.

Tyson prime was 215-220. Marciano wasn't even a true heavyweight in the modern sense, nor was he fighting (on average) true heavyweights. I know people respond "BUT MARCIANO DID FIGHT GUYS OVER 200!!!" True, but there's no comparing Don Cockell and Johnny Skor to a prime Mike Tyson.

I think some people have this vision of Marciano breaking Tyson down and scoring a late round stoppage. This is crazy, Marciano gets smashed by a much more dynamic and skilled puncher.

I care about the height. This is some of the funniest shit i've ever read. ANY thread involving Tyson descends into a mass of arguments, however, I can't ever recall a thread, on this site, going mental over his height. Awesome.

So just about every record in the world documents Tyson at about - 5'11

Ray Corso, who has personally measured him, made him - 5'9

Thus 5'11 Rocky Marciano would have towered over him.

Great stuff.

....can we change the title of this thread to "Let's never stop arguing about Mike Tyson or anyone else in boxing oooh and PEDs too because we like to veer off subject a bit"



All in favor?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

....can we change the title of this thread to "Let's never stop arguing about Mike Tyson or anyone else in boxing oooh and PEDs too because we like to veer off subject a bit"



All in favor?

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I second that notion!

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I care about the height. This is some of the funniest shit i've ever read. ANY thread involving Tyson descends into a mass of arguments, however, I can't ever recall a thread, on this site, going mental over his height. Awesome.

So just about every record in the world documents Tyson at about - 5'11

Ray Corso, who has personally measured him, made him - 5'9

Thus 5'11 Rocky Marciano would have towered over him.

Great stuff.

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My friend stood next to him at a craps table at the Las Vegas Hilton; he claims to be 5'11, I think he is shorter, and he thought Tyson was 5'8"or 5'9".

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I care about the height. This is some of the funniest shit i've ever read. ANY thread involving Tyson descends into a mass of arguments, however, I can't ever recall a thread, on this site, going mental over his height. Awesome.

So just about every record in the world documents Tyson at about - 5'11

Ray Corso, who has personally measured him, made him - 5'9

Thus 5'11 Rocky Marciano would have towered over him.

Great stuff.

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My friend stood next to him at a craps table at the Las Vegas Hilton; he claims to be 5'11, I think he is shorter, and he thought Tyson was 5'8"or 5'9".

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This is the gods honest truth, my friend, that claimed to be 5'11, although I thought shorter, stood next to Tyson in a restaurant, in London, and said he was surprised that Tyson was taller than him, must have been at least 6 ft.

Mike Tyson's exact height. Fascinating.

My cousin who has a friend, who knows a guy who is 5'11 with shoes on stood next to Tyson at pigeon race said he was surprised Tyson was shorter than he was. Said Tyson was about 5'10''.

Im totally lieing I apologize.


Anyway, what does everyone think about prime Foreman vs prime Tyson?

Nonsense, look at this picture of Holyfield and Tyson


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5z_8uGulGD.../tysonbite.jpg

Tyson is clearly above Holyfield, who is listed at 6'2" or 6'3", so I'm thinking Tyson is closer to 6'7" or 6'8".

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Originally Posted by beanflicker

nonsense, look at this picture of holyfield and tyson


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5z_8ugulgd.../tysonbite.jpg

tyson is clearly above holyfield, who is listed at 6'2" or 6'3", so i'm thinking tyson is closer to 6'7" or 6'8".

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lmao

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Originally Posted by cambay411

Anyway, what does everyone think about prime Foreman vs prime Tyson?

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Mike by KO

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by cambay411

Anyway, what does everyone think about prime Foreman vs prime Tyson?

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Mike by KO

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I don't see the outcome being much different than Foreman vs other pressure fighters like Frazier.

There's a world of difference between Frazier and Tyson IMO.

If Foreman can land uppercuts, or push Tyson back to stand him straight up, he'd do well. If he swings and misses, or leaves that jab out there, he won't do well.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

There's a world of difference between Frazier and Tyson IMO.

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Be that as it may....

Tyson would have been free swinging for a while and heck maybe he connects vs George and hell maybe George hits the canvas BUT Foreman gets up, survives, and once he hurts Tyson it's ballgame over!


Foreman was stopped 1 time.......by Muhammad Ali. Foreman did better vs a PRIME Evander Holyfield when George was 40 than Mike did vs an Evander Holyfield who was an underdog entering the fight.... FACT

Foreman old or Prime would have used his arms to steer Tyson away from him, he'd push him back, he'd lean on him, he'd move Tyson backwards and in Tyson's style if you go backwards you're done for.

Prime George Foreman wins by TKO 5
Old George Foreman wins by KO 8

I don't put a whole lot of stock in comparative, "a>b, b>c" arguments. Each fight is different and styles make fights as we know. Foreman went 10 rounds with Levi Forte, who he couldn't put away. Levi Forte has been KO'd 16 times in his career, many of which were early round blowouts to much lesser punchers than Foreman, so I guess shit happens. The fact that Foreman did better against a guy than Tyson doesn't mean much IMO. Foreman also did better against Joe Frazier and Ken Norton than Ali did, and we know how Ali/Foreman went.

To me, Foreman was too slow to deal with Tyson. He could hold guys off, but I don't think he could to Tyson, and I don't think he could outjab Tyson or deal with him on the inside.

There's a site called Celebrity Heights - How tall are Celebrities? for all you nutbars with a hangup.

Two of the main guys at the site are exactly 5'8". and when they ask a celebrity if they can pose for a picture with them, it's really an excuse to try to get a good estimate of their height for their website.
They take note of footwear.

They have Tyson at 5'10". And Tyson himself has said several times that he's 5'10" though for years, the tale of the tape listed him at 5'11½".

http://www.celebheights.com/starimages/mike-tyson.jpg
5'8" Rob with Mike Tyson.

http://i.imgur.com/bFzF8.jpg
5'8" Ejel, Mike Tyson, Frank Bruno.

http://www.celebheights.com/starimages/carl-froch.jpg
5'8" Rob with 6' Carl Froch.


http://www.livefight.com/images/page...froch-haye.jpg
Froch and Haye.
Doesn't appear to be the the 6'3" the Tale-of-the-Tape lists him at.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

There's a world of difference between Frazier and Tyson IMO.

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Be that as it may....

Tyson would have been free swinging for a while and heck maybe he connects vs George and hell maybe George hits the canvas BUT Foreman gets up, survives, and once he hurts Tyson it's ballgame over!


Foreman was stopped 1 time.......by Muhammad Ali. Foreman did better vs a PRIME Evander Holyfield when George was 40 than Mike did vs an Evander Holyfield who was an underdog entering the fight.... FACT

Foreman old or Prime would have used his arms to steer Tyson away from him, he'd push him back, he'd lean on him, he'd move Tyson backwards and in Tyson's style if you go backwards you're done for.

Prime George Foreman wins by TKO 5
Old George Foreman wins by KO 8

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I think that that is a pretty good assessment. Watch Tyson fight, even at his peak. He'd let guys steer him with their arms. Holmes was doing it to him, and trying to time him with the right coming in, before he figured that Tyson would get under the right and started looking for the uppercut.
If Foreman could, he'd stand Mike up and hit him, or he'd throw the uppercuts, which would make Tyson stand up on his own, then hit him. But Tyson could, at it isn't unlikely, get around those arms and hit the body. Tyson didn't fight much inside but he'd pick his shots and really hit the body. Then he'd come back over the top, and he was patient and did his work.
Honestly, I think that Foreman could get him early, and I'd bet this 60-65% of the time, but it wouldn't suprise me to see some ugly wrestling going on, Tyson ripping the body, Foreman looking awkward (he needed room to punch) and then Tyson exploding on him.

Old Foreman get destroyed by a prime Tyson, he was nearly knocked out by Holyfield mid round when he landed a cluster of fast punches. Stop talking nonsense to suit your own agenda. :)

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Originally Posted by Master

Old Foreman get destroyed by a prime Tyson, he was nearly knocked out by Holyfield mid round when he landed a cluster of fast punches. Stop talking nonsense to suit your own agenda. :)

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Old Foreman hit Evander so hard ....."It made my teeth rattle" - Evander Holyfield

Foreman also used a cross block style and it slowed his counter punches down just enough to give Evander the edge.

Tyson was supposed to fight Old George after Foreman massacred Cooney but for some reason that didn't happen. Plus considering Mike at the time just stood in front of his opponents I doubt George would have had a hard time with Tyson.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Old Foreman get destroyed by a prime Tyson, he was nearly knocked out by Holyfield mid round when he landed a cluster of fast punches. Stop talking nonsense to suit your own agenda. :)

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Old Foreman hit Evander so hard ....."It made my teeth rattle" - Evander Holyfield

Foreman also used a cross block style and it slowed his counter punches down just enough to give Evander the edge.

Tyson was supposed to fight Old George after Foreman massacred Cooney but for some reason that didn't happen. Plus considering Mike at the time just stood in front of his opponents I doubt George would have had a hard time with Tyson.

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Tyson was busy busting up Donovan Razzor the SMASH Ruddock who was far more dangerous at the time that George, so put those silly conspiracy theories to one side and deal with the reality that George was lucky he did not face Tyson.

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

Two of the main guys at the site are exactly 5'8". and when they ask a celebrity if they can pose for a picture with them, it's really an excuse to try to get a good estimate of their height for their website.
They take note of footwear.

They have Tyson at 5'10". And Tyson himself has said several times that he's 5'10" though for years, the tale of the tape listed him at 5'11½".

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True but that is recent Tyson, and science says that people shrink as they age, and also a broken back like Tyson suffered ("ITS SPINAL") can further make you shrink with age!

So the debate continues!!

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Originally Posted by Master

Tyson was busy busting up Donovan Razzor the SMASH Ruddock who was far more dangerous at the time that George, so put those silly conspiracy theories to one side and deal with the reality that George was lucky he did not face Tyson.

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My uncle met and shook hands with George Foreman back in the mid 90s, and he said it was like someone took a big Foreman grill and put it around his hand.

Huge, boulder hands!

Maybe you're right. 43 year old Big George was a total mess after 10 rds with The Destroyer Alex Stewart in 1992.

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...ellForeman.jpg

2 years later at 45 years old, Foreman KOs Moorer for the World Title...

EDIT:
A younger George...
http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n.../Foreman01.jpg

I think Foreman whipped Shannon Briggs too and got robbed