Was Muhammad Ali really the best

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

I dont know how people can come out and say Ali was not a great, just plain ignorance if you ask me, but there you go, everyones aloud thier own opinions and MOTIVES.

1)ALI
2)LOUIS
3)JACK
4)HOLMES
5)hOLYFIELD
6)LEWIS
7)FOREMAN
9)LISTON
10) TYSON

ROCKY MARCIANO'S NOT EVEN IN MY TOP 10 BUT THERE YOU GO, ITS MY OPINION AND THATS JUST HEAVYWEIGHTS. IF IT WAS ALL WEIGHT DIVISIONS I WOULDNT HAVE HIM IN THE TOP 20!!

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Good list.

Holmes quite often gets overlooked when talking about the great HWs.


What Jack do you mean?

Johnson or Dempsey?

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Johnson

OK guys if my OPINION is wrong would you please tell me what my OPINION should be.


Listen the guys who had the most success in their careers JOE LOUIS, ROCKY MARCIANO, then ALI. I'm not having them hypothetically fight each other, I'm not judging their competition because they couldn't help that. Who's to say if Ali was fighting today that he'd do any better than Larry Donald or Chris Byrd.....yes that's pretty freaking crazy, however, it's a thought do to the simple size difference between the eras.


2 people have Mike Tyson in the top 10...and I get attacked

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Originally Posted by Lyle

OK guys if my OPINION is wrong would you please tell me what my OPINION should be.


Listen the guys who had the most success in their careers JOE LOUIS, ROCKY MARCIANO, then ALI. I'm not having them hypothetically fight each other, I'm not judging their competition because they couldn't help that. Who's to say if Ali was fighting today that he'd do any better than Larry Donald or Chris Byrd.....yes that's pretty freaking crazy, however, it's a thought do to the simple size difference between the eras.


2 people have Mike Tyson in the top 10...and I get attacked

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Its all good, thats your opinion, stop going on about it, no ones trying to change your opinion so stop trying to make it look like that. I think your just looking for an argument which is quite sad truth be told.

In my opinion i wouldnt have Marciano in the top 20 never mind top 3 imoa but there you go its my opinion.

Personally i thin ali's win againts forman outdoes anything that marciano did in his whole career combined imoa

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Originally Posted by Lyle

OK guys if my OPINION is wrong would you please tell me what my OPINION should be.


Listen the guys who had the most success in their careers JOE LOUIS, ROCKY MARCIANO, then ALI. I'm not having them hypothetically fight each other, I'm not judging their competition because they couldn't help that. Who's to say if Ali was fighting today that he'd do any better than Larry Donald or Chris Byrd.....yes that's pretty freaking crazy, however, it's a thought do to the simple size difference between the eras.


2 people have Mike Tyson in the top 10...and I get attacked

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I hear what you are saying and it is all hyperthetical.

Regards the Tyson in the top 10. Lyle I cannot belive that after the Spinks fight you would not have had Tyson top 10, becuase I doubt there is a boxing fan in the world that would not have had Tyson a top 10 of all time at that point. If you did then you have to have him there now aswell, because that was his prime and that's where the lists is judged and not with the benefit of hindsight

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ICB

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

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I had Ali winning all 3 of those...Just my Opp

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Thats interesting Daxx did you have Leonard beating Hagler ?? just out of curiosity i just want to see how you score fights.

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No I had Hagler up by 2....IMO Leonard got the nod because he was Leonard (No other way to put it)...

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I had Ali winning all 3 of those...Just my Opp

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Thats interesting Daxx did you have Leonard beating Hagler ?? just out of curiosity i just want to see how you score fights.

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No I had Hagler up by 2....IMO Leonard got the nod because he was Leonard (No other way to put it)...

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Ahh ok i was just wondering it you favored fighters who fought in spurts with the more flashy work.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ICB

Thats interesting Daxx did you have Leonard beating Hagler ?? just out of curiosity i just want to see how you score fights.

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No I had Hagler up by 2....IMO Leonard got the nod because he was Leonard (No other way to put it)...

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Ahh ok i was just wondering it you favored fighters who fought in spurts with the more flashy work.

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I don't like a lot of flash and cettainly do not go for guys who try to steal rounds...

With that being said I will sometimes give a round to a guy who was hit more but controlled the tempo of the round...made the other guy fight at his pace...made the guy stop working when he wanted to etc....now I am not talking about if a guy gets peppered the whole round and manages to slow things down by holding on for dear life....

I am talking if he does not run and keeps things going the way he wants...If he fights in spurts he has to control the rest of the tempo...not run, get hit at will then just rattle off some punches every 30 seconds to make it look like has has done something

To answer the original question, yes I think Ali was the greatest ever heavyweight.

Over Louis and Marciano he enjoyed a size, speed, reach, weight and movement advantage.

Over Johnson he had ring generalship and combinations.

I feel Ali at hois peak was the best and would have difficulty only with Holmes, Lewis and Norton.

I showed up here at saddo a n00b boxing fan, and of course would say Ali is the greatest ever. It was all I really knew.

Since reading a lot of educated boxing fan opinions, I no longer have that same mindset. And thanks to the wonders of youtube, online vid in general where I can go watch fighters like Joe Louis and so on, it really broadens ones outlook on the sport. So for now the jury is still out.

So yea, thanks for that. :)

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

To answer the original question, yes I think Ali was the greatest ever heavyweight.

Over Louis and Marciano he enjoyed a size, speed, reach, weight and movement advantage.

Over Johnson he had ring generalship and combinations.

I feel Ali at hois peak was the best and would have difficulty only with Holmes, Lewis and Norton.

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It was his ability to fight in or out that made him a nightmare to deal with. He had the power to slug with you if he had to,but he could also disapeer on a moments notice. He had the weirdest but the best footwork of any heavyweight Ive ever seen,combined with a hook that could drop you dead.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

To answer the original question, yes I think Ali was the greatest ever heavyweight.

Over Louis and Marciano he enjoyed a size, speed, reach, weight and movement advantage.

Over Johnson he had ring generalship and combinations.

I feel Ali at hois peak was the best and would have difficulty only with Holmes, Lewis and Norton.

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It was his ability to fight in or out that made him a nightmare to deal with. He had the power to slug with you if he had to,but he could also disapeer on a moments notice. He had the weirdest but the best footwork of any heavyweight Ive ever seen,combined with a hook that could drop you dead.

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That hook finished Oscar Bonavena.
Foreman and Frazier couldn't do that!

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Originally Posted by pacfan

He himself said so, didn't he? and I ain't in any mood to argue with him.

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;D Have some rep, I needed a chuckle after a long hot day.

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

Its all good, thats your opinion, stop going on about it, no ones trying to change your opinion so stop trying to make it look like that. I think your just looking for an argument which is quite sad truth be told.

In my opinion i wouldnt have Marciano in the top 20 never mind top 3 imoa but there you go its my opinion.

Personally i thin ali's win againts forman outdoes anything that marciano did in his whole career combined imoa

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Posters wouldn't make a huge deal about my rankings if they didn't want them changed.


Your ratings and your opinions are fine.....you just have a very poor arguement.



BigH, I judged my list based on a fighter's entire career not just their primes...I think "prime" is a very vague word consider George Foreman and Evander Holyfield you can't really find ONE long stretch where they were "in their primes" they had spurts of being good and then being great and then going back to just being good, etc. Mike Tyson was a great fighter but he isn't in my top 10, it's nothing against Mike but he didn't keep his top form for very long, especially when you compare him to Louis, Marciano, Ali, Foreman, and Holmes

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

To answer the original question, yes I think Ali was the greatest ever heavyweight.

Over Louis and Marciano he enjoyed a size, speed, reach, weight and movement advantage.

Over Johnson he had ring generalship and combinations.

I feel Ali at hois peak was the best and would have difficulty only with Holmes, Lewis and Norton.

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It was his ability to fight in or out that made him a nightmare to deal with. He had the power to slug with you if he had to,but he could also disapeer on a moments notice. He had the weirdest but the best footwork of any heavyweight Ive ever seen,combined with a hook that could drop you dead.

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That hook finished Oscar Bonavena.
Foreman and Frazier couldn't do that!

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The damn thing just came out of nowhere,and came with power to beat the band,youd be thinking you were surviving,and he'd just got bored with you ,and then BOOM
Your lying on the canvas wondering what happened.
Ali was a one of a kind fighter

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Originally Posted by JoeyUK

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Originally Posted by pacfan

He himself said so, didn't he? and I ain't in any mood to argue with him.

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;D Have some rep, I needed a chuckle after a long hot day.

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The man himself said so, so what the heck are they all arguing about, right?:confused: