Was Muhammad Ali really the best

[rene69]

And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

It was me and you're talking about a 20 yr old Ali had hadn't even entered his prime yet. But the real question is...was he beaten? No he wasn't.

[ICB]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The fight with Shavers was close, could have gone either way lots of close rounds but that was an older Ali and he had already delivered his last great hurrah. Same with Jones and Cooper.

And fighters legacies aren't defined by fights fought before they won the title. Roland Lastarza by many accounts beat Marciano when they fought before Marciano won the title but it does nothing to Rocky's legacy nor should it.

Shavers was working for entire 3 minutes of the round where as Ali was fighting in spurts, i thought Shavers clearly won there fight by about 2 points. Well its not like Ali was that green when he fought Cooper, Jones, because shortly after these fights he did go on to beat Liston in one of his finest performances.

[ICB]

And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

It was me and you're talking about a 20 yr old Ali had hadn't even entered his prime yet. But the real question is...was he beaten? No he wasn't.

He wasn't that far from his prime because he fought both Cooper and Jones in 63, and in just less than a year after his fight with Cooper he beat Liston in one of his finest performances.

[ICB]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The second Norton fight was close but I still give it to Ali and the third Ali won hands down....

Your the only one I ever heard say Ali lost to Jimmy Young

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

[DaxxKahn]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The second Norton fight was close but I still give it to Ali and the third Ali won hands down....

Your the only one I ever heard say Ali lost to Jimmy Young

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

I had Ali winning all 3 of those...Just my Opp

[ICB]

The second Norton fight was close but I still give it to Ali and the third Ali won hands down....

Your the only one I ever heard say Ali lost to Jimmy Young

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

I had Ali winning all 3 of those...Just my Opp

Thats interesting Daxx did you have Leonard beating Hagler ?? just out of curiosity i just want to see how you score fights.

[:::PSL:::]

ATG?.. No.

I have him behind SRR.

[ICB]

ATG?.. No.

I have him behind SRR.

I have him behind, SRR, Armstrong, Pep, and you could make a case for others but guys like Greb etc, i don't really know enough about to make a real strong argument, but some people even say Sam Langford is the greatest P4P fighter of all time.

[Andre]

I forgot to answer the initial question.....Yes,Imo, Ali was the best.

,And welcome to the forum jmbtandy....happy 3 Day anniversary

....ok, that was totally gay

Oh I agree. Spicoli the homie. But he taking this neg rep

I have this awful image now of Vd banging on the enter key with his protruberence .

[Rommel Balbuena]

For me 1-Rocky Marciano 2-Muhammad Ali 3-Mike Tyson,Peace.

[Galaxy]

I rate Ali the best heavyweight

Johnson would be second

With Louis 3rd

[MIKAY]

I dont know how people can come out and say Ali was not a great, just plain ignorance if you ask me, but there you go, everyones aloud thier own opinions and MOTIVES.

1)ALI
2)LOUIS
3)JACK
4)HOLMES
5)hOLYFIELD
6)LEWIS
7)FOREMAN
9)LISTON
10) TYSON

ROCKY MARCIANO'S NOT EVEN IN MY TOP 10 BUT THERE YOU GO, ITS MY OPINION AND THATS JUST HEAVYWEIGHTS. IF IT WAS ALL WEIGHT DIVISIONS I WOULDNT HAVE HIM IN THE TOP 20!!

[porkypara]

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Muhamed Ali

Ali always fought his best against agressive boxers.

Louis while a devistating puncher had slow footwork and would struggle to catch up with Ali.
Look at the trouble he had with Billy Conn and he was a small light heavyweight.
Also Louis's chin was not the best and he could be hurt.

Ali would stop Louis somtime after 10 rounds.


As for Marciano,get real.There is no way a crude (but very strong) slugger could beat the fastest HW ever.

I cant even think of a chain of events that could lead to a Marciano win.

Can you??

[porkypara]

I dont know how people can come out and say Ali was not a great, just plain ignorance if you ask me, but there you go, everyones aloud thier own opinions and MOTIVES.

1)ALI
2)LOUIS
3)JACK
4)HOLMES
5)hOLYFIELD
6)LEWIS
7)FOREMAN
9)LISTON
10) TYSON

ROCKY MARCIANO'S NOT EVEN IN MY TOP 10 BUT THERE YOU GO, ITS MY OPINION AND THATS JUST HEAVYWEIGHTS. IF IT WAS ALL WEIGHT DIVISIONS I WOULDNT HAVE HIM IN THE TOP 20!!

Good list.

Holmes quite often gets overlooked when talking about the great HWs.


What Jack do you mean?

Johnson or Dempsey?

[BIG H]

I'm sorry that's ridiculous to rank Marciano over Ali. He had I think 7 title defenses and none of them were anything stellar. That's absurd Lyle and I love Rocky Marciano. Ali more or less dominated the best era in heavyweight history I would have him as my top heavyweight but have no problems with Louis being regarded as the greatest.

....Rocky NEVER LOST....

He did, it was just stricken from the records, Britkid had all the proof

My feelings on Marciano are he could conceivably be the greatest, but there is no way I would ever rate him anywhere near the top because his opposition was the worst of any long reigning champ in heavyweight history (including Joe Louis). Seriously look age of the only names on his resume, and the records of the other guys he fought.

Can't hold that against him too much becuase very few heavyweights in history fought great opposition, I would suggest the following guys fought the best opposition (in their prime and not in order)

Frazier
Foreman
Ali
Lewis
Holyfield