Do you think ANY fighter should have to fight on with a cut so severe? The ringside doctors have a duty (as does the ref) in protecting a fighter regardless of what he OR his corner want. FACTQuote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
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Do you think ANY fighter should have to fight on with a cut so severe? The ringside doctors have a duty (as does the ref) in protecting a fighter regardless of what he OR his corner want. FACTQuote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
It's a farce. Barrera was okay to continue in the 4th according to the doctor and yet by the end of the 5th it was suddenly too bad?? It was exactly the same as in the 1st round!!! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by KelYour right! Would they have let him fight on if he was clearly in trouble and taking too much punishment? No chance! Warriors like Barrera will fight to the end regardless, that is why doctors have the power to stop a fight when injuries like this occur. The cut was horrible from the start, the ref took MAB to the doctor for a look and he let the fight go on. The gash needed 33 stitches to close, what doctor would ever say "that's ok he can fight on"Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
It is also the job of the ref, and the ringside doctor, to look out for the best interest of a fighter. When a man has a 3 inch gash on his head, that is spewing blood uncontrollably, then the doctor should be stopping the fight even if the fighter thinks he can continue. What doctor would allow a person that gets a 3 inch cut on his head in the 1st round, to continue fighting, and risking the cut to be ripped open even more? That was an incompetent doctor if you ask me.
Jury still out on Hhan!
Fast hands,hard punches,very strong at 135,needs more big fights.
This is getting funny...
- Barrera himself decided to continue fighting
- The referee/doctor decided to let the fight continue up to the 5th
- But some people (probably MAB fans) screaming for the fight to be stopped after round 1 in order to have a no contest... ;D
Why did the officials in Abraham-Miranda fight let Abraham continue despite a broken jaw?? Why did the officials in Katsidis-Amonsot fight let Katsidis continue despite multiple cuts (i think 5) in his face?? Is it because Abraham/Katsidis were still competitive and winning their respective fights?
There's really no solid basis on when to stop the fight...
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Why did the referee/doctor let the fight continue? so Khan can win. you'd have to be blind to not see that that cut was bad they let him finish, wait about half a round and pulled the plug in order for Khan to get the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Barrera was never going to quit, was he now? It's not for him to decide anyway when he has a cut as long and deep as that. He did not have a mirror, he most likely didnt know or believe it was as bad as it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
The officials all have question marks surrounding them and should be investigated.
In the case of the Abraham fight. Yes, it was a terrible injury but a different type of injury entirely. The broken jaw doesnt stop you seeing punches coming. It probably hurts a lot though. And the Katsidis fight was WELL underway before the damage became REALLY bad. If the fight is reaching the climax and it's competitive then the fighter should be allowed to see it through.
But this was a butt in the second minute of the fight that would have affected Barrera badly for the entire fight. A different situation and one that should be considered on its own terms. These other fights are just you taking the argument on a tangent.
I really don't know but I'm guessing they're giving Barrera a chance but the cut worsened and they eventually pull the plug... I really don't know...Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaWhy did the referee/doctor let the fight continue? so Khan can win. you'd have to be blind to not see that that cut was bad they let him finish, wait about half a round and pulled the plug in order for Khan to get the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Why did the officials in Abraham-Miranda fight let Abraham continue despite a broken jaw?? Why did the officials in Katsidis-Amonsot fight let Katsidis continue despite multiple cuts (i think 5) in his face?? Is it because Abraham/Katsidis were still competitive and winning their respective fights?
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I guess it was up to them but Barrera keep goin thinkin he was goin to be allowed to keep fightin all 12 rounds not half a round more:-\Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI really don't know but I'm guessing they're giving Barrera a chance but the cut worsened and they eventually pull the plug... I really don't know...Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaWhy did the referee/doctor let the fight continue? so Khan can win. you'd have to be blind to not see that that cut was bad they let him finish, wait about half a round and pulled the plug in order for Khan to get the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Why did the officials in Abraham-Miranda fight let Abraham continue despite a broken jaw?? Why did the officials in Katsidis-Amonsot fight let Katsidis continue despite multiple cuts (i think 5) in his face?? Is it because Abraham/Katsidis were still competitive and winning their respective fights?
.
Like Miles said "The officials all have question marks surrounding them and should be investigated."
That's just funny Miles. "The doctor might have said Barrera would lose by TKO if he couldn't continue"?????? Are you serious???? Someone as intelligent and as experienced as Barrera (with his trainer and his coach around him) not knowing the consequence if he stop fighting in the first round because of an accidental headbutt????Quote:
Originally Posted by milesQuote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
Barrera took the risk and must suffer for it? What kind of talk is that? We have no idea what was said by the doctor in round 4. For all we know the doctor might have said Barrera would lose by tko if he couldn't continue, we don't know the full situation. At the end of the day that fight was not managed professionally and what should have been a fun fight got tarnished, I'm ashamed by how the fight was managed.
Fact of the matter is.... Barrera was hoping for a TKO. He gambled and lost. He was fighting for honor. He lost. No big deal because he did his best. he tried to fight against the odds and continue. What's the problem with that? As a boxing fan, Barrera looked greater to me than before for not quitting immediately.:cool:
He was fightin for Honor thinkin they were goin to let him go the whole fight but they pulled the plug on him ha;f a round later when they could have done it in the 4th.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeThat's just funny Miles. "The doctor might have said Barrera would lose by TKO if he couldn't continue"?????? Are you serious???? Someone as intelligent and as experienced as Barrera (with his trainer and his coach around him) not knowing the consequence if he stop fighting in the first round because of an accidental headbutt????Quote:
Originally Posted by milesQuote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
Barrera took the risk and must suffer for it? What kind of talk is that? We have no idea what was said by the doctor in round 4. For all we know the doctor might have said Barrera would lose by tko if he couldn't continue, we don't know the full situation. At the end of the day that fight was not managed professionally and what should have been a fun fight got tarnished, I'm ashamed by how the fight was managed.
Fact of the matter is.... Barrera was hoping for a TKO. He gambled and lost. He was fighting for honor. He lost. No big deal because he did his best. he tried to fight against the odds and continue. What's the problem with that? As a boxing fan, Barrera looked greater to me than before for not quitting immediately.:cool:
Are we gonna start hattin on Barrera now?
To be fair there is a difference between the Abraham Miranda fight and this one in that I believe Abraham's jaw was ruled caused by a punch. That meant if the fight got stopped Miranda automatically wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Abraham didn't WANT to carry on, if you've seen that fight his corner have to keep reassuring him that he's winning the fight and just stay away and make it to the final bell. The referee helped of course taking points away from Miranda for things like punching and looking menacing.
But as for the referee stopping the fight earlier it's really not his fault at all imo, it was down to Barrera and his team, maybe the doctor, although to be fair he was right there and the most qualified person in the ring to determine if Barrera could keep going or not.
I don't know if you remember a couple years ago when Laurance Cole advised J M Marquez to quit due to the cut he had sustained via a headbutt telling him he was well ahead on the score cards.
People went nuts, Larry Merchant said he should never be allowed to referee again. The referee CANNOT advise a fighter as to what he should do and if the ref and tried to encourage Barrera to quit he would face severe penalties.
At the end of the day the referee consults with the doctor and asks the fighter if he's ok to continue. If the doctor and the fighter think it can go on then the ref will let it go on.
Nothing about this is funny. I don't understand why the fight wasn't stopped. It's not about Barrera looking more great for me, Bruce. It's about being given a fair shake of the dice. I do concede that Barrera's corner should have got him out of there. You must have read the article Diane posted, that was gruesome reading. But Barrera's corner team are not trained doctors, that doctor that checked Barerra was supposedly a professional though. Barrera's cut was pushing 3 inches long at a precarious point on his skull. Even those biased British commentators were saying how the blood would just not stop and how it was like a motoring accident. Why could the doctor not see that or the referee for that matter? Why did it take until the 5th to stop it when that is the convenient point at which Khan takes his win?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeThat's just funny Miles. "The doctor might have said Barrera would lose by TKO if he couldn't continue"?????? Are you serious???? Someone as intelligent and as experienced as Barrera (with his trainer and his coach around him) not knowing the consequence if he stop fighting in the first round because of an accidental headbutt????Quote:
Originally Posted by milesQuote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
Barrera took the risk and must suffer for it? What kind of talk is that? We have no idea what was said by the doctor in round 4. For all we know the doctor might have said Barrera would lose by tko if he couldn't continue, we don't know the full situation. At the end of the day that fight was not managed professionally and what should have been a fun fight got tarnished, I'm ashamed by how the fight was managed.
Fact of the matter is.... Barrera was hoping for a TKO. He gambled and lost. He was fighting for honor. He lost. No big deal because he did his best. he tried to fight against the odds and continue. What's the problem with that? As a boxing fan, Barrera looked greater to me than before for not quitting immediately.:cool:
It reeks of shadiness and ineptitude. Barrera is a fighter at the end of the day and would have carried on regardless of the damage. Nobody could ever deny his courage, but his courage is not what I am debating here.
You cannot exclude courage in this discussion Miles. You just can't. It's the building block of my contention.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesNothing about this is funny. I don't understand why the fight wasn't stopped. It's not about Barrera looking more great for me, Bruce. It's about being given a fair shake of the dice. I do concede that Barrera's corner should have got him out of there. You must have read the article Diane posted, that was gruesome reading. But Barrera's corner team are not trained doctors, that doctor that checked Barerra was supposedly a professional though. Barrera's cut was pushing 3 inches long at a precarious point on his skull. Even those biased British commentators were saying how the blood would just not stop and how it was like a motoring accident. Why could the doctor not see that or the referee for that matter? Why did it take until the 5th to stop it when that is the convenient point at which Khan takes his win?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeThat's just funny Miles. "The doctor might have said Barrera would lose by TKO if he couldn't continue"?????? Are you serious???? Someone as intelligent and as experienced as Barrera (with his trainer and his coach around him) not knowing the consequence if he stop fighting in the first round because of an accidental headbutt????Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Fact of the matter is.... Barrera was hoping for a TKO. He gambled and lost. He was fighting for honor. He lost. No big deal because he did his best. he tried to fight against the odds and continue. What's the problem with that? As a boxing fan, Barrera looked greater to me than before for not quitting immediately.:cool:
It reeks of shadiness and ineptitude. Barrera is a fighter at the end of the day and would have carried on regardless of the damage. Nobody could ever deny his courage, but his courage is not what I am debating here.
Courage is the reason why Barrera decided to continue. It's the reason why he's still fighting despite his age. No Miles. I beg to disagree.:cool:
I think this pic says it all. What competent doctor would allow a fighter to continue to fight with a 3 inch gash, and this much blood, that would obviously impede the fighters ability to see punches coming at him.
Plain and simple I think.
http://i40.tinypic.com/bgz8eh.jpg
Are you trying to wind me up? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeYou cannot exclude courage in this discussion Miles. You just can't. It's the building block of my contention.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesNothing about this is funny. I don't understand why the fight wasn't stopped. It's not about Barrera looking more great for me, Bruce. It's about being given a fair shake of the dice. I do concede that Barrera's corner should have got him out of there. You must have read the article Diane posted, that was gruesome reading. But Barrera's corner team are not trained doctors, that doctor that checked Barerra was supposedly a professional though. Barrera's cut was pushing 3 inches long at a precarious point on his skull. Even those biased British commentators were saying how the blood would just not stop and how it was like a motoring accident. Why could the doctor not see that or the referee for that matter? Why did it take until the 5th to stop it when that is the convenient point at which Khan takes his win?Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
It reeks of shadiness and ineptitude. Barrera is a fighter at the end of the day and would have carried on regardless of the damage. Nobody could ever deny his courage, but his courage is not what I am debating here.
Courage is the reason why Barrera decided to continue. It's the reason why he's still fighting despite his age. No Miles. I beg to disagree.:cool:
I honestly don't believe you have taken in anything I have said over the duration of this thread. You seem to have missed my points entirely.
Look at that photo Diane has posted just now. We are not medical experts and we can see quite clearly this was no nick above the eyelid or a swelling on the brow. This was a fully fledged laceration of the head with blood streaming into the eye uncontrollably.
Can you tell me with any seriousness that this bout should not have been stopped sooner than it was? Forget the talk of courage, and answer that question as a boxing fan who has seen many cuts before and seen fights stopped for far less?