How is Donaire ahead of Williams, Haye, Dawson etc?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

I agree about Williams and Dawson. They certainly belong ahead of Donaire.

Haye's resume isn't that good though.

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Who has Nonito beaten that are better than Frogemmini, Mormeck and Maccerinelli?

When he beat Vic Darchinyan, Vic was not a multiweight divisional champ and had not beaten Mijares and Arce, his career defining wins. That was probably on a par with beating Mormeck by KO in his back yard.

At least when Haye knocked out Mormeck he had just defeated O'Neil Bell to become the unified Cruiseweight champ, only the third since Holyfield I believe.

And you can mock the likes of Enzo and Frogemmini on Haye's record but they eclipse any fighter on Nonito's other than Darchinyan, he's not even fought a single other world class fighter, the only other 'name' on his resume being Maldonado famous only for being knocked out by Vic, Montiel and Nonito.

His record apart from the Vic fight is crap, he has beaten nobody at all.

Kelly Pavliks record is far better than Nonito's with wins over Taylor twice, Miranda and Rubio all world class operators. Sure he lost to Hopkins one of the greatest fighters of the modern era, but Nonito Donaire has one defeat also to a certain Rosendo Sanchez who I'm sure we are all familiar with.

You can try and say well Pavliks defeat was recent as if that makes it more damaging but if we are going on recent form isn't that even more reason for Donaire not to be in the top 10 seeing as he does absolutely nothing in 2 years?

Even Arthur Abrahams wins over Miranda, Eastmen, Sebastion Demers, Kinglesy Ikicke is beter is a better resume imo.

Donaiare beat a decent world champ who later went on to become a very good world champ whilst Donaire himself has just stood still.

If he is p4p nunber 7 the James Buster Douglas must SURELY be in the Top 10 greatest heavyweights of all time right? How could you dispute it, after all he toppled Tyson when he was undefeated at the very height of his powers not before he had achieved them, he beat the champ, not a fighter with potential.......

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my friend, on that note: nobody's to blame here really but donaire's former promoter gary shaw. donaire could have fought kirilov, mijares or arce, but shaw chose the guy nonito dominated over. isn't that a little bit surprising? for me as a donaire fan: that's also disappointing. that's called mismanagement if not betrayal. i don't care whatever issues they had against each other but i feel bad for nonito, really.

nonito could have a better resume than what he have now if these fighters answered to his challenge:

carita lopez, mijares, arce, montiel, darchinyan..

but for some reason those fights didn't pushed through.

Yep. Gary Shaw was not really doing a good job promoting Donaire. It was negligence on his part. It had nothing to do with Donaire being disloyal.

I think Shaw started disliking Flip boxers after the Darchinyan-Gorres fight in Cebu. That was wild.

give me a break, Donaire is no Paul Williams, in terms of being highly avoided :rolleyes:

he's happy keeping his little trinket, could have easily jumped weight when Montiel said that he wanted to fight him, but well he decided to settle with Martinez

That's another bullshit excuse by Montiel. FYI, Donaire spent most of his career fighting at 115-118. He spent more of his time in Montiel's weight class than Darchinyan's at 112, and Montiel never accepted Donaire's challenge at 115.

Is it coincedence that Donaire is moving up to 115 and Montiel suddenly can no longer make 115? Hmmm... I think that's another ducking by Montiel.

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Originally Posted by Quinito

That's another bullshit excuse by Montiel. FYI, Donaire spent most of his career fighting at 115-118. He spent more of his time in Montiel's weight class than Darchinyan's at 112, and Montiel never accepted Donaire's challenge at 115.

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Montiel called Donaire out after the Rosas win, Donaire chose to go for Martinez and Montiel decided to take on Silva, Donaire hasn't called out anyone, so go somewhere else with that bull

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Originally Posted by Quinito

Is it coincedence that Donaire is moving up to 115 and Montiel suddenly can no longer make 115? Hmmm... I think that's another ducking by Montiel.

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Montiel has already fought at Bantam a couple times, tried to make the move up against Gonzalez and well didn't turn out too well that time, IMO he's improved drastically since then, and after basically taking out the Superflyweight division, now see's another opportunity to go up to Bantamweight and win another title in another division, and running from Donaire? it took Nonito 8 rounds to dispose of Maldonado, it took Montiel 3, Montiel is taking on a natural Bantamweight in his next fight, Nonito is taking on a former jr. flyweight champion in Cazares, and is doing so two divisions higher than the one that Cazares was champion at, at super flyweight, also forgot to mention, Calderon, probably the smallest active fighter right now, beat him twice, if Donaire doesn't KO Cazares quick, it's basically as bad as a loss in my eyes

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Montiel is taking on a natural Bantamweight in his next fight, Nonito is taking on a former jr. flyweight champion in Cazares, and is doing so two divisions higher than the one that Cazares was champion at, at super flyweight, also forgot to mention, Calderon, probably the smallest active fighter right now, beat him twice, if Donaire doesn't KO Cazares quick, it's basically as bad as a loss in my eyes

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donaire not stopping cazares quickly would be as bad as a loss? you gotta be kidding. why would nonito need to ko cazares quickly for it to be impressive? a dominant performance over several rounds would be just as good if not better than a quick ko. same way i was impressed with juanma lopez's win over penalosa and not as much with his victory over his previous opponents whom he stopped in 1 rd. besides, cazares and donaire both have fight experience at the heigher weight of superbantam and cazares has been a natural bantamweight long before donaire became one. in fact, one of the reasons cazares had a hard time with calderon was coz he had problems making weight. so, i'd say cazares and nonito are both natural at the weight they would be fighting at and doesn't hold a distinct advantage over the other sizewise.

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Originally Posted by KKisser

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Montiel is taking on a natural Bantamweight in his next fight, Nonito is taking on a former jr. flyweight champion in Cazares, and is doing so two divisions higher than the one that Cazares was champion at, at super flyweight, also forgot to mention, Calderon, probably the smallest active fighter right now, beat him twice, if Donaire doesn't KO Cazares quick, it's basically as bad as a loss in my eyes

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donaire not stopping cazares quickly would be as bad as a loss? you gotta be kidding. why would nonito need to ko cazares quickly for it to be impressive? a dominant performance over several rounds would be just as good if not better than a quick ko. same way i was impressed with juanma lopez's win over penalosa and not as much with his victory over his previous opponents whom he stopped in 1 rd. besides, cazares and donaire both have fight experience at the heigher weight of superbantam and cazares has been a natural bantamweight long before donaire became one. in fact, one of the reasons cazares had a hard time with calderon was coz he had problems making weight. so, i'd say cazares and nonito are both natural at the weight they would be fighting at and doesn't hold a distinct advantage over the other sizewise.

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difference is Penalosa was moving up only one division, and had NEVER been hurt before either, Cazares was hurt by Calderon in the first fight, and Calderon is the softest punching fighter today, so if Donaire doesn't manage to do the same it's pretty pathetic really

3 of the top 5 boxers in world boxing right now weigh more than 170 pounds.

Doesnt show in the rankings though

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

my friend, on that note: nobody's to blame here really but donaire's former promoter gary shaw. donaire could have fought kirilov, mijares or arce, but shaw chose the guy nonito dominated over. isn't that a little bit surprising? for me as a donaire fan: that's also disappointing. that's called mismanagement if not betrayal. i don't care whatever issues they had against each other but i feel bad for nonito, really.

nonito could have a better resume than what he have now if these fighters answered to his challenge:

carita lopez, mijares, arce, montiel, darchinyan..

but for some reason those fights didn't pushed through.

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Originally Posted by Quinito

Yep. Gary Shaw was not really doing a good job promoting Donaire. It was negligence on his part. It had nothing to do with Donaire being disloyal.

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Are you guys fukking kidding me? It had everything to do with being disloyal. Shaw made Donaire. And Donaire stabbed him in the back. Shaw gave Donaire his first title shot when he was undeserving and had less than 20 career fights. A main event fight on ShowTime. 4 months later Donaire is back on Show Time defending his title for the first time against Luis Maldonado. His fight was no suppose to be telivised. But Shaw convinced Show Time to show it. I don't know about you. But back to back title fights on ShowTime in 4 months is pretty fukking good expourse. Shaw had big plans for Donaire. But nothing came about. Donaire convinced himself he was a Super Star and thought he was owed everything. Donaire insane demands killed everything. Shaw did his best to try and accommodate Donaire and his outrageous demands. But still no fights could be made. Donaire blamed Shaw. What Donaire failed to realize was that eventhough he beat Darchinyan he was still unknown to everybody but Boxing junkies.

Now that Donaire is no longer with Shaw has his expourse gotten better? Let's see. His last fight was in the Philippines against a decent opponent for chump change. The fight wasn't shown by any of the networks that show Boxing. Under Shaw, Donaire-Martinez would of been on ShowTime or HBO.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by KKisser

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Montiel is taking on a natural Bantamweight in his next fight, Nonito is taking on a former jr. flyweight champion in Cazares, and is doing so two divisions higher than the one that Cazares was champion at, at super flyweight, also forgot to mention, Calderon, probably the smallest active fighter right now, beat him twice, if Donaire doesn't KO Cazares quick, it's basically as bad as a loss in my eyes

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donaire not stopping cazares quickly would be as bad as a loss? you gotta be kidding. why would nonito need to ko cazares quickly for it to be impressive? a dominant performance over several rounds would be just as good if not better than a quick ko. same way i was impressed with juanma lopez's win over penalosa and not as much with his victory over his previous opponents whom he stopped in 1 rd. besides, cazares and donaire both have fight experience at the heigher weight of superbantam and cazares has been a natural bantamweight long before donaire became one. in fact, one of the reasons cazares had a hard time with calderon was coz he had problems making weight. so, i'd say cazares and nonito are both natural at the weight they would be fighting at and doesn't hold a distinct advantage over the other sizewise.

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difference is Penalosa was moving up only one division, and had NEVER been hurt before either, Cazares was hurt by Calderon in the first fight, and Calderon is the softest punching fighter today, so if Donaire doesn't manage to do the same it's pretty pathetic really

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nonito doesn't have to ko cazares quickly to be impressive, he only has to put on a dominant performance. last time cazares was stopped was almost 10 years ago. you gotta admit saying nonito not stopping cazares quickly would be just as bad as a loss is foolish and could only come from a hater which i suppose you're not.

and fyi, penalosa although never been stopped has been knocked down before.

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Originally Posted by KKisser

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by KKisser

donaire not stopping cazares quickly would be as bad as a loss? you gotta be kidding. why would nonito need to ko cazares quickly for it to be impressive? a dominant performance over several rounds would be just as good if not better than a quick ko. same way i was impressed with juanma lopez's win over penalosa and not as much with his victory over his previous opponents whom he stopped in 1 rd. besides, cazares and donaire both have fight experience at the heigher weight of superbantam and cazares has been a natural bantamweight long before donaire became one. in fact, one of the reasons cazares had a hard time with calderon was coz he had problems making weight. so, i'd say cazares and nonito are both natural at the weight they would be fighting at and doesn't hold a distinct advantage over the other sizewise.

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difference is Penalosa was moving up only one division, and had NEVER been hurt before either, Cazares was hurt by Calderon in the first fight, and Calderon is the softest punching fighter today, so if Donaire doesn't manage to do the same it's pretty pathetic really

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nonito doesn't have to ko cazares quickly to be impressive, he only has to put on a dominant performance. last time cazares was stopped was almost 10 years ago. you gotta admit saying nonito not stopping cazares quickly would be just as bad as a loss is foolish and could only come from a hater which i suppose you're not.

[B]and fyi, penalosa although never been stopped has been knocked down before.[/B]

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Wasn't that a flash knock down? I doubt he was hurt. But i'm not 100% sure

Cazares has already fought at 115, he was a giant at 108 so its a bit misleading to act as if its a case of Donaire picking on a little guy. Saying he has to KO Cazares quickly for it to be meaningful seems like setting up a guy to fail so you can go look he failed.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Cazares has already fought at 115, he was a giant at 108 so its a bit misleading to act as if its a case of Donaire picking on a little guy. Saying he has to KO Cazares quickly for it to be meaningful seems like setting up a guy to fail so you can go look he failed.

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I'm not expecting an easy night for Donaire. He'll work for his win.