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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
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Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
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Originally Posted by
miles
I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.
This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?
The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!
If Manny had turned pro at 21 after an amateur career like other fighters, he would not have started at such low weights. By the time he would have been fighting for a belt he would have been significantly heavier. Too much emphasis is placed on Manny starting at 4 ounces or whatever it was. He started so low because he was a hungry kid, that was all. He is a proper WW today. Just look at how starved he looks against Marquez in their last weigh in and compare it to today.
There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't test himself and try to fight Martinez at 154. The Marquez comparison is absurd.
Martinez is on record saying he can't make 154, he says it would have to be at MW and he would oblige with a catchweight around 157-160. But we all know how you hate catchweights right, Miles?;)
And so what if Pacquiao doesn't want to jump another 2 weight classes into MW territory to fight Martinez? Is he a coward?
Are you trying to put words in my mouth? :)
I have also read recently that Martinez is considering the possibility of moving back to 154 because of the dearth of competition at 160. I would only be comfortable with the fight at 154, and as you point out, I am quite well known for my dislike of CW's. The possibility of that happening is not something I wish to consider.
Of course Pac wouldn't be a coward for not jumping 2 weight classes up to MW. That would likely be a step too far, but a single weight division is just that. It's less than what Marquez is currently having to jump through. People say 'oh but they will be a similar weight on the night'. Sure, but Manny will have a frame that he has had time to work with and practiced it against other opposition.
Marquez has only got that heavy after draining and rehydrating. Quite different things. Still that's a different argument really.
But THAT isn't true either! In JMM's last fight he weighed in at 145 before the fight after weighing in the day before at 133 and change. In other words JMM's optimal weight at fight time is within 2-3-4 pounds of Manny's.
And again, you saying "it's only one division" means none of the prior steps have meaning. You are arguing Manny moving a division after already moving across ten is the same thing as a fighter moving one to move3 into his second, third or fourth. Yet thousands of guys have done the latter and only a handful the former. I wonder why that is? ;)
Marquez's optimal fighting division is 135 and Manny's 147. Those are the facts. They both weigh in similarly come fight night, but prepared to fight quite different types of fighters. Marquez prepares for guys who drain and rehydrate. In fighting Manny he will be fighting someone who really doesn't do that. In fighting Manny, Marquez will be facing something quite different. Manny will come in at his regular weight. He will weigh in much the same as he will fight on the night. Marquez has no history of doing that.
LOL, did you really say JMM "trains for guys who dehydrate and rehydrate" like that is a style or something? How does one train for those guys? More swimming? Train in the rain? Work with water filled heavy bags? ;)
JMM fights guys who weigh in the high 140's on fight night. Manny weighs in the high 140's on fight night. All JMM need not do is dehydrate. Right?
Let me simplify. If we had same day weigh-ins? These guys are both welterweights, right?
Thanks for your thoughts, I'm out for a while.
Well, let's make this very simple for you.
Look at the weigh in photos of Pacquiao versus Marquez the second time out and look at the weigh in photos of Pac against Mosley. You will see two very different fighters. One is extremely drawn as he has boiled down to the weight, the other is a figure of health and strength as he didn't. Both guys come into the ring at a pretty similar weight.
Marquez is used to fighting in a slightly boiled down state and adding weight through rehydration. His opponents do likewise. Manny doesn't bother to boil down and just comes in relatvely natural, as a WW. Which IS his weight no matter how you want to look at it. You fight for two years at a weight, then you are that weight. Just as Floyd is a fully fledged WW too.
The point is that Marquez is used to fighting under those conditions and Pac is used to fighting under his own. In that sense it is obvious that the advantages are Pacs. Sure they might end up coming into the ring at relatively equal weights (maybe), but if Marquez bulks up it will be forced and if he just boils down and adds fluids Pac will be significantly stronger. He has no real history of fighting WW's.
The only way to make it a somewhat fair fight was for it to be at 140.
Wait a minute are you comparing weigh-in photos? Those tell you nothing. They are the day before a fight.
Unless you are arguing dehydrating and rehydrating somehow makes a fighter better? Shouldn't JMM not having to do that help him in this case? I mean both guys will weight more or less thae same while fighting, right? JMM should NOT bulk up. He just sahouldn't dehydrate.
Again, you defining a guy by who he fights rather than what he actually weighs (or more exactly, could weigh) means Harry Greb was a light heavy (never the way he is thought of). Let me try it this way. Henry Armstrong when he was welterweight champ fought his first seven defenses at 135 or under. You think the right way to describe him then was as a welter? Nope. The best way is a lightweight fighting welters and holding the welter crown. Manny simply forgoes the advatage of day before weigh-ins which would allow him to fight smaller guys. He is no more a welter than JMM. Here merely fights them.
My guess is Floyd could not make 147 with a same day weigh-in. We know for sure he can't make 144 the day before right? I mean he violated his contract with JMM.
Now having said all this I don't think it's a great fight either. I don't think 140 makes much of a difference in this case. It means Manny skips a meal and a day of water and that's it. 135 would be special.
What does your guess on Floyd not being able to make a 147lb same day weigh in have to do with ANYTHING?
it's a direct comment on a comment made in the previous post. This reading thing too much for you?
Not at all....reading is just fine. But it really is irrelevant. Simple strategy of a Pactard is to make a comparison to something in regards to Floyd when justifying something about Pac. I wonder what Pacs nut huggers would do if they couldn't "use" Floyd in every sentence. Hes gone and on vacation and isn't relevant remember?
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.
This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?
The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!
But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?
He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb
LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.
So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...
Manny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?
A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.
Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.
But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?
Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?
You say the Margo fight didn't mean much? Are you kidding? It's your claim to fame for Manny so you can remind us he has won titles in as many divisions as he has. Since it didn't mean much I will give you permission to dock one number from the number you use when describing how many titles hes won. You said it yourself...it didn't mean much.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
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Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
My own view seems to have gotten lost here. Let me summarize.
1) Best fight would be for the 135 lineal belt and I think Manny could make it without hurting his performance. Given that, 140 won't impair Manny either and so it serves no incremental purpose I can see.
2) Under any weight limit we've mentioned, these two men will fight in the ring withing 3-4 pounds of one another anyway so a lot of this is much ado about nothing
3) 140 vs. 144 I think is immaterial and I'm equally unhappy with either :)
Now what were we arguing again?
He said fight should be at 140 and you object :)
Haha, that's it in a nutshell. ;D
I just think it was the fairest thing to do. It would appease all sides. What we have is Manny dictating everything and so the forums get disgruntled people. All I want as a fan is fair, decent scraps and considering both fighters personal and recent history, 140 just seemed the logical place to have it.
Still, it hasn't happened and what is just is. I would have preferred that to what we have, but at the end of the day Marquez is making the decisions and he has gone through with it. I worry that he might get blasted away at this weight and that isn't very fun or fair. The closer the weight to LW is the better for Marquez, 140 would have been fair on both men. 144 is in favour of Manny.
I see Marbleheads argument and he makes good points, but as the fight stands, it doesn't meet my idea of fair simply because both men fight in different divisions and have fought different types of opponents for 2 years. Marquez simply isn't a WW, whilst Manny is much more a WW.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Wait a minute are you comparing weigh-in photos? Those tell you nothing. They are the day before a fight.
Unless you are arguing dehydrating and rehydrating somehow makes a fighter better? Shouldn't JMM not having to do that help him in this case? I mean both guys will weight more or less thae same while fighting, right? JMM should NOT bulk up. He just sahouldn't dehydrate.
Again, you defining a guy by who he fights rather than what he actually weighs (or more exactly, could weigh) means Harry Greb was a light heavy (never the way he is thought of). Let me try it this way. Henry Armstrong when he was welterweight champ fought his first seven defenses at 135 or under. You think the right way to describe him then was as a welter? Nope. The best way is a lightweight fighting welters and holding the welter crown. Manny simply forgoes the advatage of day before weigh-ins which would allow him to fight smaller guys. He is no more a welter than JMM. Here merely fights them.
My guess is Floyd could not make 147 with a same day weigh-in. We know for sure he can't make 144 the day before right? I mean he violated his contract with JMM.
Now having said all this I don't think it's a great fight either. I don't think 140 makes much of a difference in this case. It means Manny skips a meal and a day of water and that's it. 135 would be special.
As I mentioned earlier, Mayweather's fight night weight for the Mosley fight was 149, so he could almost certainly do a same day weigh-in. I think him not making 144 comes down to Floyd being a dick & wanting to assert his position to GBP & Oscar particularly rather than anything else. Even that night he only re-hydrated up to 152, which was apparently his highest ever fight night weight. I don't buy that he's significantly bigger than Manny.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.
This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?
The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!
But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?
He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb
LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.
So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...
Manny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?
A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.
Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.
But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?
Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?
You say the Margo fight didn't mean much? Are you kidding? It's your claim to fame for Manny so you can remind us he has won titles in as many divisions as he has. Since it didn't mean much I will give you permission to dock one number from the number you use when describing how many titles hes won. You said it yourself...it didn't mean much.
Yup, it didn't mean much. For the mentally impaired (like you Joey ;)) Manny's greatest accomplishment is winning four legitimate lineal crowns, the only man in history to do so.
The straps at 122, 135, 147 and 154 mean nothing. Lineal or as i call them THE MAN titles are all that carry any weight. The rest are merely a function of how corrupt a given alphabet group feels on a given day.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
I also will completely lose any faith in Cotto fighting another truly tough fight if he moves up in weight to fight Chavez Jr. but won't move up in weight to fight Martinez. Cotto is a p4p fighter. It is fair for us to expect more.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.
This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?
The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!
But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?
He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb
LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.
So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...
Manny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?
A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.
Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.
But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?
Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?
You say the Margo fight didn't mean much? Are you kidding? It's your claim to fame for Manny so you can remind us he has won titles in as many divisions as he has. Since it didn't mean much I will give you permission to dock one number from the number you use when describing how many titles hes won. You said it yourself...it didn't mean much.
Yup, it didn't mean much. For the mentally impaired (like you Joey ;)) Manny's greatest accomplishment is winning four legitimate lineal crowns, the only man in history to do so.
The straps at 122, 135, 147 and 154 mean nothing. Lineal or as i call them THE MAN titles are all that carry any weight. The rest are merely a function of how corrupt a given alphabet group feels on a given day.
I respect that....Thank you Miyagi.. (:
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mafiajoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.
This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?
The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!
But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?
He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb
LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.
So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...
Manny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?
A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.
Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.
But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?
Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?
You say the Margo fight didn't mean much? Are you kidding? It's your claim to fame for Manny so you can remind us he has won titles in as many divisions as he has. Since it didn't mean much I will give you permission to dock one number from the number you use when describing how many titles hes won. You said it yourself...it didn't mean much.
Yup, it didn't mean much. For the mentally impaired (like you Joey ;)) Manny's greatest accomplishment is winning four legitimate lineal crowns, the only man in history to do so.
The straps at 122, 135, 147 and 154 mean nothing. Lineal or as i call them THE MAN titles are all that carry any weight. The rest are merely a function of how corrupt a given alphabet group feels on a given day.
I respect that....Thank you Miyagi.. (:
Lies only become truth if other person chooses to believe them. [Look eye! ALWAYS look eye!]
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Let's get back on topic. If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport as a lot of people have claimed, why not move up to fight Andre Ward or any top 168 pound fighter. Since his division sucks. Hell it was just mentioned that Cotto should move up to 160 and fight him.
So everyone from the lower weights should move up to fight Martinez, but Martinez is given a pass to not move up?
Great logic ain't it?
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Let's get back on topic. If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport as a lot of people have claimed, why not move up to fight Andre Ward or any top 168 pound fighter. Since his division sucks. Hell it was just mentioned that Cotto should move up to 160 and fight him.
So everyone from the lower weights should move up to fight Martinez, but Martinez is given a pass to not move up?
Great logic ain't it?
I hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Let's get back on topic. If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport as a lot of people have claimed, why not move up to fight Andre Ward or any top 168 pound fighter. Since his division sucks. Hell it was just mentioned that Cotto should move up to 160 and fight him.
So everyone from the lower weights should move up to fight Martinez, but Martinez is given a pass to not move up?
Great logic ain't it?
I hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
I agree Guerrero is the name there who I think could really bring something. Granted I had him losing to Ishe Smith, but I'm of the opinion that Smith could give absolute hell to any of the top guys from 154-160, probably Martinez excepted. Anyway Guerrero has a huge fanbase in Maryland, is a really engaging guy & has bags of power.
There's also hope that Jacobs can rebound from the Pirog loss, although that's probably another year away also. Korobov as well. There's a whole group of hungry .young MWs who could be very good.
I think another, if he plans to make MW, who could be very good sooner than that is Peter Quillin. Bags of power & speed & appears to have been brought along very well. Another two fights & he could fight for an alphabet & win imo & then might be the best choice for Martinez.
Martinez probably will have to do a 'bum' of the month thing because it's unrealistic that either Pacquiao or Mayweather should have to move up any more particularly with how outsized they looked against opponents at 154. I think the main thing is HBO has to be realistic & try to bring guys like Sturm, Pirog & Geale to the table in terms of the money they put up for the shows.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Let's get back on topic. If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport as a lot of people have claimed, why not move up to fight Andre Ward or any top 168 pound fighter. Since his division sucks. Hell it was just mentioned that Cotto should move up to 160 and fight him.
So everyone from the lower weights should move up to fight Martinez, but Martinez is given a pass to not move up?
Great logic ain't it?
I hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
I agree Guerrero is the name there who I think could really bring something. Granted I had him losing to Ishe Smith, but I'm of the opinion that Smith could give absolute hell to any of the top guys from 154-160, probably Martinez excepted. Anyway Guerrero has a huge fanbase in Maryland, is a really engaging guy & has bags of power.
There's also hope that Jacobs can rebound from the Pirog loss, although that's probably another year away also. Korobov as well. There's a whole group of hungry .young MWs who could be very good.
I think another, if he plans to make MW, who could be very good sooner than that is Peter Quillin. Bags of power & speed & appears to have been brought along very well. Another two fights & he could fight for an alphabet & win imo & then might be the best choice for Martinez.
Martinez probably will have to do a 'bum' of the month thing because it's unrealistic that either Pacquiao or Mayweather should have to move up any more particularly with how outsized they looked against opponents at 154. I think the main thing is HBO has to be realistic & try to bring guys like Sturm, Pirog & Geale to the table in terms of the money they put up for the shows.
Ishe is a great measuring stick isn't he? Korobov is a name I had forgotten and he belongs on that list. I wonder if Sergio doesn't belong in Europe for a while. I wonder if he could make decent money with Sturm, N'Jikam, Sylvester, Golovkin. Try to build a real following and do what the Klitschkos do?
But with HBO on board that's probably a loser of an idea.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Let's get back on topic. If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport as a lot of people have claimed, why not move up to fight Andre Ward or any top 168 pound fighter. Since his division sucks. Hell it was just mentioned that Cotto should move up to 160 and fight him.
So everyone from the lower weights should move up to fight Martinez, but Martinez is given a pass to not move up?
Great logic ain't it?
I hear ya General. It just kills me that the middleweight champ, one of the sport's storied divisions, has to go hunting like this for a challenge. it's crazy!
I STILL say the right thing to do is spend the next twelve months doing a 160 Bum of the Month Club. Just start knocking the Ring ranked 160's off one after another. Fight 6-8 times in the next 12 months. By then hopefully a couple of the largely unproven younguns, Saul Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Lee, Fernando Guerrero, Bursak from Germany, Martyrosian, Erislandy Lara, etc. will have separated themselves.
Of course if Williams or Pavlik or Abraham want a shot at 160 along the way that works too.
I agree Guerrero is the name there who I think could really bring something. Granted I had him losing to Ishe Smith, but I'm of the opinion that Smith could give absolute hell to any of the top guys from 154-160, probably Martinez excepted. Anyway Guerrero has a huge fanbase in Maryland, is a really engaging guy & has bags of power.
There's also hope that Jacobs can rebound from the Pirog loss, although that's probably another year away also. Korobov as well. There's a whole group of hungry .young MWs who could be very good.
I think another, if he plans to make MW, who could be very good sooner than that is Peter Quillin. Bags of power & speed & appears to have been brought along very well. Another two fights & he could fight for an alphabet & win imo & then might be the best choice for Martinez.
Martinez probably will have to do a 'bum' of the month thing because it's unrealistic that either Pacquiao or Mayweather should have to move up any more particularly with how outsized they looked against opponents at 154. I think the main thing is HBO has to be realistic & try to bring guys like Sturm, Pirog & Geale to the table in terms of the money they put up for the shows.
Ishe is a great measuring stick isn't he? Korobov is a name I had forgotten and he belongs on that list. I wonder if Sergio doesn't belong in Europe for a while. I wonder if he could make decent money with Sturm, N'Jikam, Sylvester, Golovkin. Try to build a real following and do what the Klitschkos do?
But with HBO on board that's probably a loser of an idea.
If I'm not mistaken, Sergio's parents are Spaniards that immigrated to Argentina. So maybe Sergio could fight out of Spain or some place in Europe something like that and tries to make gobs of money fighting mediocre opposition like the Klits?
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
If I'm not mistaken, Sergio's parents are Spaniards that immigrated to Argentina. So maybe Sergio could fight out of Spain or some place in Europe something like that and tries to make gobs of money fighting mediocre opposition like the Klits?
I believe that he did fight out of Madrid up until the Saul Roman fight or thereabouts. Never became a name over there because Spain doesn't have the following for boxing that the UK or Germany have. If he was looking to make money somewhere those two or Italy would be the best choices. In fact, I've often wondered why we don't take advantage of European Casino venues in Monte Carlo or San Remo to build up a viable alternative to Vegas & Atlantic City.
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Re: If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
If I'm not mistaken, Sergio's parents are Spaniards that immigrated to Argentina. So maybe Sergio could fight out of Spain or some place in Europe something like that and tries to make gobs of money fighting mediocre opposition like the Klits?
I believe that he did fight out of Madrid up until the Saul Roman fight or thereabouts. Never became a name over there because Spain doesn't have the following for boxing that the UK or Germany have. If he was looking to make money somewhere those two or Italy would be the best choices. In fact, I've often wondered why we don't take advantage of
European Casino venues in Monte Carlo or San Remo to build up a viable alternative to Vegas & Atlantic City.
Hey that worked for Carlos Monzon a couple of times!
