Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
To compare Louis with Wlad is utterly ridiculous.
Louis exisited in an era of ONE champion. He was the 100% indisputable champion of the world.
Wlad has existed in an era of FOUR possible champions. Never at any point in Wlad's career has he simultaneously held all four titles. He never beat the lineal champion. The closest he's ever got to being a "legit" champion was when he beat Chagaev. The Ring magazine recognised that fight, between the no.1 and no.3, as the crowning of a NEW champion.
So Wlad has made FIVE successful defenses of the heavyweight title. That's it (although, of course, you have to completely ignore the fact that his strongest rival has been present throughout this time).
This is not a slight on Wlad. He's just very unlucky that his brother, who established himself as a top dog, was around at the same time.
#1 Its the same record albeit under different circumstances, so if it makes you feel any better put an asterisk beside it. It's no different than Babe Ruth hitting 60 homeruns in 160 games and Maris hitting 61 in 162 games. Its an impressive feat whatever you think about Joe Louis' record. I personally rate Joe Louis as the A#1 Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time (because it's factually correct and because he was an amazing fighter).
#2 ENOUGH about Vitali why even bring it up? They were never going to fight....EVER so it's an erroneous point to continue harping on. They may as well be in different weight classes like the Marquez brothers.
#3 Wladimir Klitschko and Vitali Klitschko have 2 seperate but impressive legacies and they are all-time great heavyweights. You could write a damn novel of top fighters in boxing that never fought each other....Floyd & Pac anyone??? Are their careers harmed by that fight not happening? IMO the longer we go without seeing it the less it affects my opinion of them.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 Its the same record albeit under different circumstances, so if it makes you feel any better put an asterisk beside it. It's no different than Babe Ruth hitting 60 homeruns in 160 games and Maris hitting 61 in 162 games. Its an impressive feat whatever you think about Joe Louis' record. I personally rate Joe Louis as the A#1 Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time (because it's factually correct and because he was an amazing fighter).
#2 ENOUGH about Vitali why even bring it up? They were never going to fight....EVER so it's an erroneous point to continue harping on. They may as well be in different weight classes like the Marquez brothers.
#3 Wladimir Klitschko and Vitali Klitschko have 2 seperate but impressive legacies and they are all-time great heavyweights. You could write a damn novel of top fighters in boxing that never fought each other....Floyd & Pac anyone??? Are their careers harmed by that fight not happening? IMO the longer we go without seeing it the less it affects my opinion of them.
1. It's not the same record. Four world titles means four different sets of rankings. Which clearly dilutes the worth of each individual title.
2. Why bring up the strongest rival of Wlad's era? If Vitali wasn't the WBC champion i'm pretty sure Wlad would have won it by now. Which also opens him up to a whole other set of opponents. Vitali has been a HUGE factor in Wlad's legacy.
3. Pac and Floyd BOTH established themselves as THE man in numerous divisions. They're only each others closest rival at this particular point in time. They both had already disposed of lineal champions, their independently recognised no.1 challenger and had great legacies before they become "rivals."
4. I don't deny Wlad is a "great" heavyweight. I don't deny he hasn't amassed a good legacy. I am merely stating the simple fact that - He has NEVER been THE man. And it's Vitali's fault.
You can't be the best if you don't face the best. Simple as that.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Interestingly, neither fighter has beaten anyone nearly of the caliber of the other
Exactly.
That's why Wlad has never been THE
bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Who was the best fighter of lewis era other than lewis?
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Interestingly, neither fighter has beaten anyone nearly of the caliber of the other
Exactly.
That's why Wlad has never been THE
bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Who was the best fighter of lewis era other than lewis?
Pele Reid?
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Interestingly, neither fighter has beaten anyone nearly of the caliber of the other
Exactly.
That's why Wlad has never been THE
bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Who was the best fighter of lewis era other than lewis?
Pele Reid?
Uninspired.
Come on fenster u can do better...Run with me! Who was it?
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Interestingly, neither fighter has beaten anyone nearly of the caliber of the other
Exactly.
That's why Wlad has never been THE
bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Who was the best fighter of lewis era other than lewis?
Pele Reid?
Uninspired.
Come on fenster u can do better...Run with me! Who was it?
I could name numerous top fighters. Just get to your point?
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Interestingly, neither fighter has beaten anyone nearly of the caliber of the other
Exactly.
That's why Wlad has never been THE
bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Who was the best fighter of lewis era other than lewis?
Pele Reid?
Uninspired.
Come on fenster u can do better...Run with me! Who was it?
I could name numerous top fighters. Just get to your point?
Im just curious to know as to who u think was the man lewis beat to cement his legacy as THE man?
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
1. It's not the same record. Four world titles means four different sets of rankings. Which clearly dilutes the worth of each individual title.
2. Why bring up the strongest rival of Wlad's era? If Vitali wasn't the WBC champion i'm pretty sure Wlad would have won it by now. Which also opens him up to a whole other set of opponents. Vitali has been a HUGE factor in Wlad's legacy.
3. Pac and Floyd BOTH established themselves as THE man in numerous divisions. They're only each others closest rival at this particular point in time. They both had already disposed of lineal champions, their independently recognised no.1 challenger and had great legacies before they become "rivals."
4. I don't deny Wlad is a "great" heavyweight. I don't deny he hasn't amassed a good legacy. I am merely stating the simple fact that - He has NEVER been THE man. And it's Vitali's fault.
You can't be the best if you don't face the best. Simple as that.
1. The record is "Consecutive Successful Title Defenses", Wladimir is THE Heavyweight Champion of the world and only the WBC (for now) thinks otherwise.
2. Vitali isn't Wlad's RIVAL because they're never competitng AGAINST each other.
3. So Wlad should move to cruiserweight is what you're saying? I mean maybe it's me but I think Wlad & Vitali have both had their time at the top of the heap and right now WLAD is A#1 Duke of the Heavyweight division.
4. You assume (and wrongly so) that Vitali was "THE MAN" of the division when Wlad rematched Chris Byrd, Mr. Byrd was the longest reigning title holder. When Wlad beat Chagaev he became the first heavyweight since Lennox Lewis to unify titles. Vitali was the man after beating Sanders but he took a hiatus and lost his spot didn't he?
Wlad & Vitali are the best BUT THEY WILL NEVER FIGHT EACH OTHER SO STOP FUCKING ACTING LIKE THEY WILL
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Wladimir is the better chess player.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Interestingly, neither fighter has beaten anyone nearly of the caliber of the other
Exactly.
That's why Wlad has never been THE
bona fide heavyweight champion of the world.
You can imagine fantasy scenarios all day long but, the cold hard facts are, Wlad never faced THE best fighter of his era. It's unarguable basic logic.
Who was the best fighter of lewis era other than lewis?
Pele Reid?
Uninspired.
Come on fenster u can do better...Run with me! Who was it?
I could name numerous top fighters. Just get to your point?
Im just curious to know as to who u think was the man lewis beat to cement his legacy as THE man?
The lineal champion Shannon Briggs. Fact.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
The lineal champion Shannon Briggs. Fact.
Come on...Don't make me work for it LOL.
U just said it was Pele Reid a minute ago.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
1. It's not the same record. Four world titles means four different sets of rankings. Which clearly dilutes the worth of each individual title.
2. Why bring up the strongest rival of Wlad's era? If Vitali wasn't the WBC champion i'm pretty sure Wlad would have won it by now. Which also opens him up to a whole other set of opponents. Vitali has been a HUGE factor in Wlad's legacy.
3. Pac and Floyd BOTH established themselves as THE man in numerous divisions. They're only each others closest rival at this particular point in time. They both had already disposed of lineal champions, their independently recognised no.1 challenger and had great legacies before they become "rivals."
4. I don't deny Wlad is a "great" heavyweight. I don't deny he hasn't amassed a good legacy. I am merely stating the simple fact that - He has NEVER been THE man. And it's Vitali's fault.
You can't be the best if you don't face the best. Simple as that.
1. The record is "Consecutive Successful Title Defenses", Wladimir is THE Heavyweight Champion of the world and only the WBC (for now) thinks otherwise.
2. Vitali isn't Wlad's RIVAL because they're never competitng AGAINST each other.
3. So Wlad should move to cruiserweight is what you're saying? I mean maybe it's me but I think Wlad & Vitali have both had their time at the top of the heap and right now WLAD is A#1 Duke of the Heavyweight division.
4. You assume (and wrongly so) that Vitali was "THE MAN" of the division when Wlad rematched Chris Byrd, Mr. Byrd was the longest reigning title holder. When Wlad beat Chagaev he became the first heavyweight since Lennox Lewis to unify titles. Vitali was the man after beating Sanders but he took a hiatus and lost his spot didn't he?
Wlad & Vitali are the best
BUT THEY WILL NEVER FIGHT EACH OTHER SO STOP FUCKING ACTING LIKE THEY WILL
Jesus!!!
It's really not hard to understand.
Since Vitali came back in 2008 he's had ten fights. During this time Wlad's had seven. They have ONE common opponent!!! - Sam Peter (who Wlad had already beat)
The TWO best fighters have SIXTEEN different opponents over the past 4 years. How the hell can you be the best fighter in a division if you don't even know who the best fighters are?
Boxing is not a TAG-TEAM sport.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
The lineal champion Shannon Briggs. Fact.
Come on...Don't make me work for it LOL.
U just said it was Pele Reid a minute ago.
Come on man, lets go.
Lewis became THE man after beating Briggs who took the linage from Foreman. This is common knowledge.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
There are a lot of unanswered question's in boxing at the minute it doesn't just apply to K2!
I mean who's the best P4P fighter? Manny or mayweather?
Wlad is the better fighter overall. It's undeniable really. I don't think he needs vitali to prove it...
Love to see it though.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Come on man, lets go.
Take me to pleasure town fenster...LOL.
Quote:
Lewis became THE man after beating Briggs who took the linage from Foreman. This is common knowledge
If ANYONE should have been declared the lineal HW champion it was mediocre featherfisted bum Axl Schulz, who was robbed against Foreman. Foreman refused a rematch, fought Savarese and Grimsley (I forget the order), and evidentially the suits, the powers that be, had enough of Foreman's cherry picking and free agent status, and when Briggs went the distance---they gave it to him---thus eliminating Foreman completely from contention, as he been stripped of his alphabet titles and now his linear claim.
If we consider Schulz lineal HW champion, then basically the title went back to the man Foreman won it from in Michael Moorer; Schulz 'won' the IBF title from Botha after 'winning' the lineal title from Foreman, and then lost via SD to Michael Moorer, who would then lose to Evander Holyfield.
LOL this shit's hilarious we could be here for some time...
