Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Floyd is untested over 135
He became totally content after the Oscar fight and is just living off his name ... cashing out for low risk, high reward, lucrative fights.
Nothing wrong with that though but I've personally witnessed better boxers than Floyd.
I was young for the tail end of Tyson's career but I still remember it. His physical gifts and attributes trump Floyd's ... his skill wasn't quite the same in the 90s as it was in the late 80s but he still showed flashes of excellent footwork, head movement, punching technique and combination punching. Of course I didn't really notice these things as a kid ... was more impressed with his explosiveness :D
Roy Jones Jr. is another guy I rank above Floyd ... as a boxer I personally watched. Floyd's defense is supposed to be what makes him special, right? Well RJJ is the ONLY guy to have never been hit for a single round in the CompuBox era. Vinnie Paz didn't land a single shot in Roy in the 6th round of their bout. So much for Floyd bragging about his CompuBox stats. Roy arguably didn't lose a single round in his prime. He was the most dominant champion I've ever seen, along with Tyson.
Two guys that I've personally seen who were leagues above Floyd IMO. He's nothing special compared to Tyson or Roy. Elbowing people in the throat isn't great defense IMO.
I don't know how the hell you can criticise Floyd's resume and then hail Tyson and Roy. Roy fought nobody of note above 168lbs, and Tyson lost to the first elite level fighter he faced. Vitali as had rounds where his opponent hasn't landed a single punch.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
As far as tecnique goes I really can't find a realistic flaw that opponents managed to take advantage of consistently, yes the De La Hoya jab was winning him rounds but he never stuck to it and to be fair a good jab makes any hard fight easier. That being said and me agreeing with you that in this generation I believe Floyd to be the very best. I'd have to say though I still take prime RJJ and Sweet Pea over him.
I think its merely a matter of personal taste for me but out of the 100+ fighter collection I have on dvd. RJJ is the only one that ever puts in awe. Sweet pea just had you on a string following him while being battered. It was so damn beautiful to watch.
So for the last three generations I'd have to say Sweet Pete, The Invincible Roy Jones, and finally pretty boy Floyd Mayweather for me.
As for the future? Toss up between Andre Ward, (winner of Rigo, Mares, Donaire though I like Donaire's 24/7 365 testing and his ring activity)
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Tito? Are you kidding me? Tito looked great against come forward fighters. When he fought anybody who actually boxed (Hopkins, Wright, Oscar) he looked clueless.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Tito? Are you kidding me? Tito looked great against come forward fighters. When he fought anybody who actually boxed (Hopkins, Wright, Oscar) he looked clueless.
Hopkins and Wright were at the higher weights. Oscar did give him trouble but Tito had power ad Floyd could not afford to make one mistake otherwise he would have got starched.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Tito? Are you kidding me? Tito looked great against come forward fighters. When he fought anybody who actually boxed (Hopkins, Wright, Oscar) he looked clueless.
Hopkins and Wright were at the higher weights. Oscar did give him trouble but Tito had power ad Floyd could not afford to make one mistake otherwise he would have got starched.
Oscar had power, Mosley had power, Chico had power, Ortiz had power, Cotto had power, Judah had power, Corley had power.
It would have made no difference what weight he would have fought Winky at. Oscar showed working behind the jab and moving laterally easily negates Tito's power, with or without his hand wraps.
Floyd's style is all wrong for Tito, and I'd see another shutout loss for him.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Tito? Are you kidding me? Tito looked great against come forward fighters. When he fought anybody who actually boxed (Hopkins, Wright, Oscar) he looked clueless.
Hopkins and Wright were at the higher weights. Oscar did give him trouble but Tito had power ad Floyd could not afford to make one mistake otherwise he would have got starched.
Oscar had power, Mosley had power, Chico had power, Ortiz had power, Cotto had power, Judah had power, Corley had power.
It would have made no difference what weight he would have fought Winky at. Oscar showed working behind the jab and moving laterally easily negates Tito's power, with or without his hand wraps.
Floyd's style is all wrong for Tito, and I'd see another shutout loss for him.
None of the fighters you state had Tito power, at welter he would have beaten those fighters you mention that had power.
Style wise I agree Floyd would pose a lot of problems but Tito had height and reach advantages and he would have caught Floyd in the end.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Tito? Are you kidding me? Tito looked great against come forward fighters. When he fought anybody who actually boxed (Hopkins, Wright, Oscar) he looked clueless.
Hopkins and Wright were at the higher weights. Oscar did give him trouble but Tito had power ad Floyd could not afford to make one mistake otherwise he would have got starched.
Oscar had power, Mosley had power, Chico had power, Ortiz had power, Cotto had power, Judah had power, Corley had power.
It would have made no difference what weight he would have fought Winky at. Oscar showed working behind the jab and moving laterally easily negates Tito's power, with or without his hand wraps.
Floyd's style is all wrong for Tito, and I'd see another shutout loss for him.
None of the fighters you state had Tito power, at welter he would have beaten those fighters you mention that had power.
Style wise I agree Floyd would pose a lot of problems but Tito had height and reach advantages and he would have caught Floyd in the end.
Like he did with Oscar, Camacho and Whitaker? Tito had power, yes, but when you add the fact that Oscar was robbed you have a fighter that looked great against solid b+ fighters, but didn't against the better ones.
Who did he fight that was a hall of famer? Oscar, Camacho, Hopkins, Whitaker, Wright, Jones Jr. He didn't stop any of them, and there is no reason to suggest he would find Floyd. Nobody else could.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
I think Shane hits pretty damn hard but he was old when he fought mayweather and hey he asked for it and mayweather obliged so no criticism towards him.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Tito would never...EVER...beat Floyd. Sorry...that's a fact.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Actually, one good question that comes out of this thread is how would Floyd's best opponents have fared against the top guys, but not the all-time greats, from yesteryear. Could Hatton have hung with Fritzie Zivic or Jackie "Kid" Berg? Cotto with Jimmy McClarnin from Ireland or Kid Gavilan from Cuba? How would Corrales have fared against Johnny Dundee or Battling Batallino?
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavilaJones
I think Shane hits pretty damn hard but he was old when he fought mayweather and hey he asked for it and mayweather obliged so no criticism towards him.
Shane wobbled Floyd good, as did Zab.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Tito? Are you kidding me? Tito looked great against come forward fighters. When he fought anybody who actually boxed (Hopkins, Wright, Oscar) he looked clueless.
Hopkins and Wright were at the higher weights. Oscar did give him trouble but Tito had power ad Floyd could not afford to make one mistake otherwise he would have got starched.
Oscar had power, Mosley had power, Chico had power, Ortiz had power, Cotto had power, Judah had power, Corley had power.
It would have made no difference what weight he would have fought Winky at. Oscar showed working behind the jab and moving laterally easily negates Tito's power, with or without his hand wraps.
Floyd's style is all wrong for Tito, and I'd see another shutout loss for him.
None of the fighters you state had Tito power, at welter he would have beaten those fighters you mention that had power.
Style wise I agree Floyd would pose a lot of problems but Tito had height and reach advantages and he would have caught Floyd in the end.
Like he did with Oscar, Camacho and Whitaker? Tito had power, yes, but when you add the fact that Oscar was robbed you have a fighter that looked great against solid b+ fighters, but didn't against the better ones.
Who did he fight that was a hall of famer? Oscar, Camacho, Hopkins, Whitaker, Wright, Jones Jr. He didn't stop any of them, and there is no reason to suggest he would find Floyd. Nobody else could.
Oscar ran away from the power and gave the fight away, Camacho held on for dear life, and he comprehensively beat an old Whitaker. Wright and Jones came after he retired and Hopkins was at middleweight.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Floyd is untested over 135
He became totally content after the Oscar fight and is just living off his name ... cashing out for low risk, high reward, lucrative fights.
Nothing wrong with that though but I've personally witnessed better boxers than Floyd.
I was young for the tail end of Tyson's career but I still remember it. His physical gifts and attributes trump Floyd's ... his skill wasn't quite the same in the 90s as it was in the late 80s but he still showed flashes of excellent footwork, head movement, punching technique and combination punching. Of course I didn't really notice these things as a kid ... was more impressed with his explosiveness :D
Roy Jones Jr. is another guy I rank above Floyd ... as a boxer I personally watched. Floyd's defense is supposed to be what makes him special, right? Well RJJ is the ONLY guy to have never been hit for a single round in the CompuBox era. Vinnie Paz didn't land a single shot in Roy in the 6th round of their bout. So much for Floyd bragging about his CompuBox stats. Roy arguably didn't lose a single round in his prime. He was the most dominant champion I've ever seen, along with Tyson.
Two guys that I've personally seen who were leagues above Floyd IMO. He's nothing special compared to Tyson or Roy. Elbowing people in the throat isn't great defense IMO.
I don't know how the hell you can criticise Floyd's resume and then hail Tyson and Roy. Roy fought nobody of note above 168lbs, and Tyson lost to the first elite level fighter he faced. Vitali as had rounds where his opponent hasn't landed a single punch.
Beating Virgil Hill, Glen Kelly, Antonio Tarver, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, and Montell Griffin twice at 168+ is better than what Floyd did over 135. And lets not forget him moving to heavyweight and taking a strap off John Ruiz ... that alone is better than Floyd's entire career.
His best wins in James Toney and Bernard Hopkins are better than Floyd's best wins over Corrales and Castillo ... and anyone who saw the first Castillo fight knows that Floyd got a gift and Castillo should have won.
Tyson in his prime was unstoppable and was something else ... if you are talking about the Holyfield loss then remember that he was inactive for 4 years and came back from incarceration ... he was years removed from his prime and his skills had woefully deteriorated by then ... him winning two belts despite that is impressive in itself. The Douglas loss was a fluke and Tysons wins over Holmes, Spinks, Tucker, Bruno, and Ruddock are better than whatever Floyd has done.
I'm sorry but I'm not impressed with Floyd's wins over a shot Cotto, an old Mosley, Carlos Baldomir, Arturo Gatti and whoever else he fought at over 135. I mean Carlos Baldomir? Arturo Gatti? Are you serious?? Gatti was a C class fighter according to Floyd himself! Baldomir was a nobody who became champion because he fought Zab Judah, who always collapses and fails in big fights. Floyd's accomplishments are nothing to gawk at either ... he wasn't even the most accomplished fighter in his era ... Manny Pacquiao is. Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champ ever and the fastest besides L. Spinks to become champion. He was also the first in nearly a decade to become undisputed heavyweight champion ... Tyson and Roy are a few leagues above Floyd. Floyd never fought anyone special over 135 ... except maybe an old Oscar and he barely won that fight. And his talent and skill are not above Mike Tyson's or Roy Jones Jr.'s either.
Re: I can't remember seeing a better fighter than prime Floyd Mayweather Jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is a great fighter but I believe, just like Pernell Whitaker, that his peak weight is not Welterweight. As I said earlier SRL would beat him and I believe Hearn’s and Tito would beat him too.
What is Floyd’s prime, in terms of money it is now but his best weight would be super featherweight?
Tito? Are you kidding me? Tito looked great against come forward fighters. When he fought anybody who actually boxed (Hopkins, Wright, Oscar) he looked clueless.
Hopkins and Wright were at the higher weights. Oscar did give him trouble but Tito had power ad Floyd could not afford to make one mistake otherwise he would have got starched.
Oscar had power, Mosley had power, Chico had power, Ortiz had power, Cotto had power, Judah had power, Corley had power.
It would have made no difference what weight he would have fought Winky at. Oscar showed working behind the jab and moving laterally easily negates Tito's power, with or without his hand wraps.
Floyd's style is all wrong for Tito, and I'd see another shutout loss for him.
None of the fighters you state had Tito power, at welter he would have beaten those fighters you mention that had power.
Style wise I agree Floyd would pose a lot of problems but Tito had height and reach advantages and he would have caught Floyd in the end.
Like he did with Oscar, Camacho and Whitaker? Tito had power, yes, but when you add the fact that Oscar was robbed you have a fighter that looked great against solid b+ fighters, but didn't against the better ones.
Who did he fight that was a hall of famer? Oscar, Camacho, Hopkins, Whitaker, Wright, Jones Jr. He didn't stop any of them, and there is no reason to suggest he would find Floyd. Nobody else could.
Oscar ran away from the power and gave the fight away, Camacho held on for dear life, and he comprehensively beat an old Whitaker. Wright and Jones came after he retired and Hopkins was at middleweight.
Oscar schooled him for the first eight rounds. then eased off because he rightly presumed he had a huge margin.
You're missing the point. Who did he beat at welterweight or light middle? He has only one name, Oscar (I'll ignore an old Camacho and Whitaker), and only the halfwits judging that fight actually believe he won.
