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Pantera.His writings and some future relatives via Scotland ended up in the Americas.1000 years after him,legend has it; a white man came out of the sea(bearded white man probably got out of a boat) and his story went from near peru right up to charka canyon teaching love one another and about the sunkings.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I would take the word smart out of the equation and replace it with religious. Hitler himself was a Catholic, Blair a Catholic, Bush a Christian Fundamentalist, the Middle East is full of off their rocker type leaders who will stone a women for looking at a man. Religion has been the greatest hindrance to human peace in human history.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongTechnology doesn't inherently equal good. There have been and are several very bright people who have been very evil and filled with hate. Their ability to be smart has only made them more effective in being evil it has not brought more peace to the world or more goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Even the people to be protected as advocated by Jesus, was only a 'protect our own' peace. He wanted to protect Jews and Jews alone, the love thy neighbors of the 10 commandments were Jews, it was only ever about another form of worshipping in a cult. Heathens were always acceptable roadkill according to the Bible.
If, and I really doubt most of the evidence proffered in the Bible, is true, Jesus really decided to sacrifice himself in an attempt to cleanse away all past and future sins, then it was surely an act of supreme arrogance, as he clearly wasn't the son of God. More realistic was that he was bugging the Romans, got caught and died. End of. Then later, some blokes get an idea on how to reinterpret that life and it became influence and power.
Gandalf, I just want to mention one thing. Hitler wasn't Catholic. He may have been baptized in the faith but in order to be Catholic you actually have to attempt to practice the faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI would take the word smart out of the equation and replace it with religious. Hitler himself was a Catholic, Blair a Catholic, Bush a Christian Fundamentalist, the Middle East is full of off their rocker type leaders who will stone a women for looking at a man. Religion has been the greatest hindrance to human peace in human history.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongTechnology doesn't inherently equal good. There have been and are several very bright people who have been very evil and filled with hate. Their ability to be smart has only made them more effective in being evil it has not brought more peace to the world or more goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Even the people to be protected as advocated by Jesus, was only a 'protect our own' peace. He wanted to protect Jews and Jews alone, the love thy neighbors of the 10 commandments were Jews, it was only ever about another form of worshipping in a cult. Heathens were always acceptable roadkill according to the Bible.
If, and I really doubt most of the evidence proffered in the Bible, is true, Jesus really decided to sacrifice himself in an attempt to cleanse away all past and future sins, then it was surely an act of supreme arrogance, as he clearly wasn't the son of God. More realistic was that he was bugging the Romans, got caught and died. End of. Then later, some blokes get an idea on how to reinterpret that life and it became influence and power.
[/QUOTE] Gandalf, I just want to mention one thing. Hitler wasn't Catholic. He may have been baptized in the faith but in order to be Catholic you actually have to attempt to practice the faith.[/QUOTE]
That's some good insight
And Mao & Stalin worshipped what? You would be the expert on arrogance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Nah... he will never beat meQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYou would be the expert on arrogance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Power?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd Mao & Stalin worshipped what? You would be the expert on arrogance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
You made the argument that several smart people have been responsible for terrible things, whilst I made the basic observation that many people have used religion as a veil for their misdeeds and cruelty. There are notable world leaders, but that also extends down to ordinary people. Take for instance the centuries liong persecution of the Jews, or the religious divide in Northern Ireland, or the average American Christian loathing of Muslims today. Take religion out of the equation, and much of the hate has to be eradicated from the calculation too. It's not that simple, but religion is the main problem in many parts of the world, it simply doesn't act as a unifier or a solution, it is an inherent divide and ruler.
Your observation that several smart people have been responsible for terrible things was vague and therefore almost bereft of any meaning. You can quntify it far more by adding religion, or unregulated capitalism, or could have instead mentioned Mao or Stalin which you finally did above. Power is another corrupting element and so perhaps instead you could say that many world leaders have initiated terrible acts and the cause was immense arrogance and concentrations of power.
Your good friend Obama is a case in point. He told a truckload of porkies to get his job and has been locking up whistleblowers left, right, and centre. Continues to torture people in Guantanamo, assassinate's people on a weekly basis, has the greatest spying apparatus in world history, locks up truth revealing whistleblowers, does his best to bomb any nation based on made up evidence, etc etc. A very dangerous man with too much power and according to some he is either Christian or Muslim based on the direction of the wind. Incredibly dangerous.
Miles, I thought you were going on hiatus. Did you decide against it. When you look at the troubles in Ireland do you really think religion was at the root of it. Or the problems in the middle east. People don't need religion to hate each other.
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/images/nazibelts.gif
Nazi belt buckles.
"Gott mit uns" God is with us.
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." - Mein Kampf
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."
-Hitler Speech 1922
I should be and intend to be. At the very least this shall be my John Cage year.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
Religion and nationalism are the two things which can be used to drive people to do anything. After all, what can be more rewarding than to believe that you are doing it for your country or your God? Many global problems can be put down to these two things, though often you need a special leader to bring it to some special kind of fruition.
If the children of Northern Ireland went to integrated schools, the parents would stop indoctrinating them, and if the youth were free to intermarry, then the problems would largely go away in due course. It was and is the religious divide that is the obstacle, though obviously there was hundreds of years of political abuse largely perpetrated by the British and one shouldn't play that down. Take away religion though, and it is completely political, and then becomes nationalism.
Sometimes a leader can control the societal religious divides as Saddam did in Iraq. Admittedly it was largely by coercion and fear, but many Iraqi's today look back at Saddam's rule with a degree of fondness, as what is happening now is clearly a mess with thousands being killed every year, and goodness knows how many more being maimed and of course largely forgotten about once the initial headline is gone. The point I am making is that once the dictatorship is gone, religious differences then run amok.
Just look at the outrage and deaths over the cartoons of the prohet Mohammad, at the abortionists who get killed in America, at the lunatic US President who believed that "'they' hate us for our freedoms", at the Saudi's who will practice stoning. Religion either drives or is the excuse for a lot of terrible behaviour, that the world would clearly be better off without. America itself was founded on the banner of 'manifest destiny', again just using God as an excuse to carry out genocide and steal the land of ordinary people. This was still happening until very recent times.
Society improves despite religion and never because of it.
I know sometimes people think I am having a go at religion, but people are free to believe what they want to believe.
I think the only real benefit to be obtained from religion is a sense of comfort. 'Maybe I'm poor now, but in the next life, it won't be so bad'. I look at countries like the Phillipines, and I have no doubt Catholicism is a comfort to many people who live in abject poverty. Yet at the same time, the Catholic church is abusive with its stance on contraception. Instead of helping in that regard, it encourages further povert in that country. That is sick behaviour when it wouldn't be so hard to genuinely help the poor with a bit of commonsense.
Nothing that organised religion claims to do is anything that any human couldn't or doesn't do without religion. Most of us just get on with life doing the best we can. Few are doing anything truly terrible and if they are then society balances them. If one is walking around being 'good' because they are worrying about the permanent CCTV that is God, then they were likely never particularly good to begin with and that probably came from bad parenting.
Instead of encouraging poverty and saying it will be better in the land beyond, how about giving up that wealth and putting it all back into society? All that extravagance at Christmas makes the Pope seem like a middle age Monarch. If there was a Jesus, he was an odd man too. He supposedly said something along the lines of if you don't hate your parents, your children, your wife, yourself, then you cannot be my disciple. Now that really is a bit mean and most of us from todays perpective would say you are the definition of modern cult leader. A lot of myths about that man though and they are mostly myths.
P.S. My hiatus shall thus commence. :p
Sure the Sunni's do but I think the Kurds and Shias are happy they at least can fight back now and aren't getting gassed anymore. The Kurds are essentially autonomous and doing well. The Shia run most of the country minus Al Anbar. The three obviously haven't found a way to coexist w/o mass murder but do you really think the Shia/Kurds would give up their power to be back under the boot of Saddam and moderately more secure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
that is some funny shit. Shows he really wasn't a Christian, was that your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
The Kurds just liberated Tall Hamis from Al Qaeda. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlieSure the Sunni's do but I think the Kurds and Shias are happy they at least can fight back now and aren't getting gassed anymore. The Kurds are essentially autonomous and doing well. The Shia run most of the country minus Al Anbar. The three obviously haven't found a way to coexist w/o mass murder but do you really think the Shia/Kurds would give up their power to be back under the boot of Saddam and moderately more secure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Hitler was a born Catholic, but was a political man. He constantly referenced God, but then would privately denounce Christianity too. When dealing with Hitler, you have to automatically assume mental conditions at play. It was God's destiny when he liked, at othertimes he would run Christianity into the ground.
Just your good old fashioned psycho in control of a very powerful country.