Jesus was a Jewish rabbi......PERIOD

[Gandalf]

Jesus was likely a normal bloke who stood up for what he believed in and that is all any man can do. To build it into lies such as returning from the dead, performing magic, immaculate conception, that is just practicing on the gullible. Just a bloke, nothing more, nothing less. Definitely Arab in appearance, and date of birth unknown. In truth nothing is known really, we can only assume that he existed, and that is why it was so easy to make stuff up.

Mate a man with advanced knowledge back in those times where people still thought only in black and white an advanced practice would be seen as miraculous.

In the Essene gospel of peace they write about him treating a man in agony whos writhing around onthe ground in pain. He gets a gourd of warm liquid and inserts it into the man who expels a giant tape worm from his regions. This would be seen as de possession by most back then. Could be too looking at it from a different persective than just the material one.

It rains fish, It still happens to this day. Its even rained apples a few times special delivery from Spain all the way over to Cornwall or Devon I think it was, it filled a guys backyard up.

People come back from the dead,the comatose state is like death, besides that very knowledgeable people put a sponge of water and herbs up to his lips ;-).

The miraculous events still occur to this day and to those in tune with their surrounds,when events occur when someone is in need of the event occurring its divine timing to them. Some people can know in advance of events and so its even more a gift of spirit and knowing beyond doubt the event will occur.


Ive seen it first hand,been a part of it.I watched a seven year drought get broken and stayed in a shit hole town just to watch it occur against what locals thought, laughing at my suggestion that this time around things are going to be very different. That night on dusk their town was a raging torrential river and they were the top town on the highest mountain in Queensland you could feel the energy building in the earth on their mountain hours before it hit.
Ive seen it before when people on a beach all their hair stood up straight and pointed to the sky prior to an electrical storm ,I got off the beach quick but you could feel like a calmness of energy collecting but sort of an excitment at the same time. Up the mountain was more intense than that for hours before hand.

Inside of me though I was thanking God for it occurring before it happened,like thank you the drought is broken. But there is always some material explanation these days to how people can know somethings about to happen.

Apparently lighting sends a charge through the ground before it strikes,maybe that was it it that I could feel . So theres the modern day answer so you can dismiss the timing.

But then again Ive had patterns in the sky form right on que too, I cant prove it from what i was thinking and asking within at the time though.Im certain the events would of occurred whether I was there or not . The miracles are in the timing and the requirement being met and hearing that feeling to look in a certain direction at a certain time.

Whats happening on Earth even by our own doing in the material and mental realm are giant miracles of events. Its a shame people can get so caught up in those material ones that they can no longer feel the natural ones for what they are.

This is an amazing trip down here,its all up to you in your own perspective what you get out of stuff, even the worse stuff has its other side of the coin experience if you seek it.

Like they say you can wallow in the shit you just got dealt or you can grow roses in it. Ive really had to live that one out this year.

Andre, I really have to object to you luring me in with an incredibly long post. You do know I am trying to leave.

Firstly, it isn't cut and dry that Jesus existed as I have seen mentioned in this thread. There are doubters, though they are the minority and should be assumed as much.

Secondly, the genuine evidence about Jesus and his life is non-existant. It is all heresay and gossip spun as fact and fact spun as superpower. There is no genuine evidence that this man in extremely primitive times could have been anything more than a moralist or at best a moralist with conjuring tricks as genuine magic doesn't exist.

I don't deny that there are amazing things in the world, but most of those amazing things have been or are being explained by science. Jesus could get away with one trick perhaps, but to get away with so many? It has to be made up. Either you got lucky healing the sick now and then or you were one of the rare people to physically rise up from the dead, but you don't get lucky and draw trump cards in every single way that Jesus is credited with. It is untenable and extremely unrealistic. It is very realistic that one could throw a wobbler at the bankers though as we see it happening every day. Thus as a normal man with moral views, then yes, absolutely. A magic man son of God with superpowers, utter gibberish.

I think what we have is different definitions of miracle. What you see as a miracle are the less common, but rationally explainable elements of nature. I don't see them as miracles, but I would definitely agree that can be astounding and incredible. Take Lourdes for instance, they are documenting cases and cases of people, but in truth, there are no real miracles. There is the occasional instance where someone has found the mental strength to recover from something, but on the whole there are no real miracles. The universe as explained by science thus far is much more of a miracle, but I wouldn't leave it to that word alone. I would let the reasoning explain it, as it will in due course by smarter men than I.

I don't find it negative or defeatist to not believe in miracles, but I think one should always be pragmatic. I think there is incredible romance, and beauty, and wonder in the world, but I also know that the mind can be fooled by chemical tricks and illusions or outright self delusion.

Who was it that said if you introduce the latest technology to a primitive society, you can make them believe in magic? It's sad that on book based on heresay has such a stranglehold despite us having the technology to know so much more. You would think some of the technology could destroy the bollocks, but seemingly freedom of information counts for nothing when the propaganda strangles you young.

[brocktonblockbust]

Yeshua Ben Pandera and Yeshua Ha Notzri both walked the earth and both performed miracles. One of them---we dont know which---and the other's acts and sayings were combined over the years into a single entity.

[Andre]

Yeshua Ben Pandera and Yeshua Ha Notzri both walked the earth and both performed miracles. One of them---we dont know which---and the other's acts and sayings were combined over the years into a single entity.

Pantera.His writings and some future relatives via Scotland ended up in the Americas.1000 years after him,legend has it; a white man came out of the sea(bearded white man probably got out of a boat) and his story went from near peru right up to charka canyon teaching love one another and about the sunkings.

[El Kabong]

You would think some of the technology could destroy the bollocks, but seemingly freedom of information counts for nothing when the propaganda strangles you young.

Technology doesn't inherently equal good. There have been and are several very bright people who have been very evil and filled with hate. Their ability to be smart has only made them more effective in being evil it has not brought more peace to the world or more goodness.

[VictorCharlie]

Threads like this make me miss Marsax and Bilbo.

[Dia bando]

Religion does it not cause , a lot of trouble to the human race , it does in fact make us intolerant
of others of there religious beliefs. Who is right who is wrong,! when the nuts knock your door
and start quoting the Bible to you, leave people alone simple FUCK OFF you pests.

Yes I'm intolerant because, I simple want to live my life MY WAY, you don't have to be religious
to do or show acts of kindness. What suits you may not suit me, it's hard to live to a book that's
over 2,000 years old. Time moves on but some people that follow, theses Religions are stuck in
the dark ages, server punishment is dished out to this day.

[Gandalf]

You would think some of the technology could destroy the bollocks, but seemingly freedom of information counts for nothing when the propaganda strangles you young.

Technology doesn't inherently equal good. There have been and are several very bright people who have been very evil and filled with hate. Their ability to be smart has only made them more effective in being evil it has not brought more peace to the world or more goodness.

I would take the word smart out of the equation and replace it with religious. Hitler himself was a Catholic, Blair a Catholic, Bush a Christian Fundamentalist, the Middle East is full of off their rocker type leaders who will stone a women for looking at a man. Religion has been the greatest hindrance to human peace in human history.

Even the people to be protected as advocated by Jesus, was only a 'protect our own' peace. He wanted to protect Jews and Jews alone, the love thy neighbors of the 10 commandments were Jews, it was only ever about another form of worshipping in a cult. Heathens were always acceptable roadkill according to the Bible.

If, and I really doubt most of the evidence proffered in the Bible, is true, Jesus really decided to sacrifice himself in an attempt to cleanse away all past and future sins, then it was surely an act of supreme arrogance, as he clearly wasn't the son of God. More realistic was that he was bugging the Romans, got caught and died. End of. Then later, some blokes get an idea on how to reinterpret that life and it became influence and power.

[walrus]

You would think some of the technology could destroy the bollocks, but seemingly freedom of information counts for nothing when the propaganda strangles you young.

Technology doesn't inherently equal good. There have been and are several very bright people who have been very evil and filled with hate. Their ability to be smart has only made them more effective in being evil it has not brought more peace to the world or more goodness.

I would take the word smart out of the equation and replace it with religious. Hitler himself was a Catholic, Blair a Catholic, Bush a Christian Fundamentalist, the Middle East is full of off their rocker type leaders who will stone a women for looking at a man. Religion has been the greatest hindrance to human peace in human history.

Even the people to be protected as advocated by Jesus, was only a 'protect our own' peace. He wanted to protect Jews and Jews alone, the love thy neighbors of the 10 commandments were Jews, it was only ever about another form of worshipping in a cult. Heathens were always acceptable roadkill according to the Bible.

If, and I really doubt most of the evidence proffered in the Bible, is true, Jesus really decided to sacrifice himself in an attempt to cleanse away all past and future sins, then it was surely an act of supreme arrogance, as he clearly wasn't the son of God. More realistic was that he was bugging the Romans, got caught and died. End of. Then later, some blokes get an idea on how to reinterpret that life and it became influence and power.

Gandalf, I just want to mention one thing. Hitler wasn't Catholic. He may have been baptized in the faith but in order to be Catholic you actually have to attempt to practice the faith.

[SugarBoxing]

[/QUOTE] Gandalf, I just want to mention one thing. Hitler wasn't Catholic. He may have been baptized in the faith but in order to be Catholic you actually have to attempt to practice the faith.[/QUOTE]

That's some good insight

[El Kabong]

I would take the word smart out of the equation and replace it with religious. Hitler himself was a Catholic, Blair a Catholic, Bush a Christian Fundamentalist, the Middle East is full of off their rocker type leaders who will stone a women for looking at a man. Religion has been the greatest hindrance to human peace in human history.

Even the people to be protected as advocated by Jesus, was only a 'protect our own' peace. He wanted to protect Jews and Jews alone, the love thy neighbors of the 10 commandments were Jews, it was only ever about another form of worshipping in a cult. Heathens were always acceptable roadkill according to the Bible.

If, and I really doubt most of the evidence proffered in the Bible, is true, Jesus really decided to sacrifice himself in an attempt to cleanse away all past and future sins, then it was surely an act of supreme arrogance, as he clearly wasn't the son of God. More realistic was that he was bugging the Romans, got caught and died. End of. Then later, some blokes get an idea on how to reinterpret that life and it became influence and power.

And Mao & Stalin worshipped what? You would be the expert on arrogance.

[SugarBoxing]

I would take the word smart out of the equation and replace it with religious. Hitler himself was a Catholic, Blair a Catholic, Bush a Christian Fundamentalist, the Middle East is full of off their rocker type leaders who will stone a women for looking at a man. Religion has been the greatest hindrance to human peace in human history.

Even the people to be protected as advocated by Jesus, was only a 'protect our own' peace. He wanted to protect Jews and Jews alone, the love thy neighbors of the 10 commandments were Jews, it was only ever about another form of worshipping in a cult. Heathens were always acceptable roadkill according to the Bible.

If, and I really doubt most of the evidence proffered in the Bible, is true, Jesus really decided to sacrifice himself in an attempt to cleanse away all past and future sins, then it was surely an act of supreme arrogance, as he clearly wasn't the son of God. More realistic was that he was bugging the Romans, got caught and died. End of. Then later, some blokes get an idea on how to reinterpret that life and it became influence and power.

You would be the expert on arrogance.

Nah... he will never beat me

[Gandalf]

I would take the word smart out of the equation and replace it with religious. Hitler himself was a Catholic, Blair a Catholic, Bush a Christian Fundamentalist, the Middle East is full of off their rocker type leaders who will stone a women for looking at a man. Religion has been the greatest hindrance to human peace in human history.

Even the people to be protected as advocated by Jesus, was only a 'protect our own' peace. He wanted to protect Jews and Jews alone, the love thy neighbors of the 10 commandments were Jews, it was only ever about another form of worshipping in a cult. Heathens were always acceptable roadkill according to the Bible.

If, and I really doubt most of the evidence proffered in the Bible, is true, Jesus really decided to sacrifice himself in an attempt to cleanse away all past and future sins, then it was surely an act of supreme arrogance, as he clearly wasn't the son of God. More realistic was that he was bugging the Romans, got caught and died. End of. Then later, some blokes get an idea on how to reinterpret that life and it became influence and power.

And Mao & Stalin worshipped what? You would be the expert on arrogance.

Power?

You made the argument that several smart people have been responsible for terrible things, whilst I made the basic observation that many people have used religion as a veil for their misdeeds and cruelty. There are notable world leaders, but that also extends down to ordinary people. Take for instance the centuries liong persecution of the Jews, or the religious divide in Northern Ireland, or the average American Christian loathing of Muslims today. Take religion out of the equation, and much of the hate has to be eradicated from the calculation too. It's not that simple, but religion is the main problem in many parts of the world, it simply doesn't act as a unifier or a solution, it is an inherent divide and ruler.

Your observation that several smart people have been responsible for terrible things was vague and therefore almost bereft of any meaning. You can quntify it far more by adding religion, or unregulated capitalism, or could have instead mentioned Mao or Stalin which you finally did above. Power is another corrupting element and so perhaps instead you could say that many world leaders have initiated terrible acts and the cause was immense arrogance and concentrations of power.

Your good friend Obama is a case in point. He told a truckload of porkies to get his job and has been locking up whistleblowers left, right, and centre. Continues to torture people in Guantanamo, assassinate's people on a weekly basis, has the greatest spying apparatus in world history, locks up truth revealing whistleblowers, does his best to bomb any nation based on made up evidence, etc etc. A very dangerous man with too much power and according to some he is either Christian or Muslim based on the direction of the wind. Incredibly dangerous.

[walrus]

Miles, I thought you were going on hiatus. Did you decide against it. When you look at the troubles in Ireland do you really think religion was at the root of it. Or the problems in the middle east. People don't need religion to hate each other.

[killersheep]

Nazi belt buckles.
"Gott mit uns" God is with us.

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." - Mein Kampf

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

-Hitler Speech 1922

[Gandalf]

Miles, I thought you were going on hiatus. Did you decide against it. When you look at the troubles in Ireland do you really think religion was at the root of it. Or the problems in the middle east. People don't need religion to hate each other.

I should be and intend to be. At the very least this shall be my John Cage year.

Religion and nationalism are the two things which can be used to drive people to do anything. After all, what can be more rewarding than to believe that you are doing it for your country or your God? Many global problems can be put down to these two things, though often you need a special leader to bring it to some special kind of fruition.

If the children of Northern Ireland went to integrated schools, the parents would stop indoctrinating them, and if the youth were free to intermarry, then the problems would largely go away in due course. It was and is the religious divide that is the obstacle, though obviously there was hundreds of years of political abuse largely perpetrated by the British and one shouldn't play that down. Take away religion though, and it is completely political, and then becomes nationalism.

Sometimes a leader can control the societal religious divides as Saddam did in Iraq. Admittedly it was largely by coercion and fear, but many Iraqi's today look back at Saddam's rule with a degree of fondness, as what is happening now is clearly a mess with thousands being killed every year, and goodness knows how many more being maimed and of course largely forgotten about once the initial headline is gone. The point I am making is that once the dictatorship is gone, religious differences then run amok.

Just look at the outrage and deaths over the cartoons of the prohet Mohammad, at the abortionists who get killed in America, at the lunatic US President who believed that "'they' hate us for our freedoms", at the Saudi's who will practice stoning. Religion either drives or is the excuse for a lot of terrible behaviour, that the world would clearly be better off without. America itself was founded on the banner of 'manifest destiny', again just using God as an excuse to carry out genocide and steal the land of ordinary people. This was still happening until very recent times.

Society improves despite religion and never because of it.