Sam Peter: Anybody?

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by erics44

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once ;D

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You've labelled yourself as a hater, why shouldn't I refer to you as such? If you labeled yourself as a vegetarian, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Libertarian, a communist, a conservative, a liberal, or any other label you can think of, would I be wrong to refer to you as something you freely labelled yourself as?

You "explained" why Ali's holding and Wlad's holding are different, but the reasons you gave are factually inaccurate.

Wlad holds more than he punches? You honestly believe that there is a Wlad fight where the number of clinches exceeded the number of punches he threw?

And you also say it's different because although Ali clinched a lot, he didn't "lean" on guys like Wlad does. That's also factually inaccurate. Ali would tie guys up with one arm, and use the other arm to pull down hard on the opponent's head, causing stress and fatigue on the neck and back of the opponent. This was a claim made by several opponents (including Frazier and George Chuvalo). Ask anybody that trains muay thai how tiring being in the muay thai clinch is (which is essentially what Ali did to opponents).

So no, you haven't answered my question sufficiently.

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you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know :)

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

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And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

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As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won :)

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Judges don't decide what is and is not a foul. Try again

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Who said that they did?

@Beanflicker , @El Kabong

if wlad only generated £50k per fight do you think he would be allowed to fight the way he does?

do you think he would still be champ?

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

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And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

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As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won :)

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Judges don't decide what is and is not a foul. Try again

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Who said that they did?

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Well you because you're trying to compare bad judging to refereeing.....probably because you're retarded

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

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And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

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As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won :)

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Judges don't decide what is and is not a foul. Try again

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Who said that they did?

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Well you because you're trying to compare bad judging to refereeing.....probably because you're retarded

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you know in a round about way I suppose I am, both methods of the corruption in the two cases that I have highlighted, well done :)

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Originally Posted by erics44

you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know :)

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I've posted many points to my argument. Me calling you a hater is actually a good thing, because what I'm saying is essentially your bias against Wlad is skewing your opinion. The other alternative is that you're stupid and you don't know much about boxing. I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former.

It's factually inaccurate because you told me that Wlad leans more. I told you that's not the case and backed it up with the opinions of guys who actually fought Ali and complained about it (Chuvalo and Frazier).

You've avoided questions I've asked. I'd be interested in knowing how Wlad managed to win the majority of the rounds vs Haye by averaging essentially 1 clinch per round?

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

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What did Bruno take?

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

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What did Bruno take?

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Pot, cocaine.....those are what he admits to. Tyson also was drugged up when he fought. But hey you know it's all cool, I mean the refs and judges are corrupt anyway right???

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by erics44

you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know :)

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I've posted many points to my argument. Me calling you a hater is actually a good thing, because what I'm saying is essentially your bias against Wlad is skewing your opinion. The other alternative is that you're stupid and you don't know much about boxing. I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former.

It's factually inaccurate because you told me that Wlad leans more. I told you that's not the case and backed it up with the opinions of guys who actually fought Ali and complained about it (Chuvalo and Frazier).

You've avoided questions I've asked. I'd be interested in knowing how Wlad managed to win the majority of the rounds vs Haye by averaging essentially 1 clinch per round?

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mate its getting funnier, its gone from the hater to the don't know much about boxing, now common?

I haven't avoided any questions you have asked, which ones?

Ali leant as much as wlad does?

bit of boxing knowledge for you :) Eubank explained in an interview about how he beat benn because benn was too emotionally involved in the fight

I am winning this debate as you are to emotionally involved :)

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

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What did Bruno take?

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Pot, cocaine.....those are what he admits to. Tyson also was drugged up when he fought. But hey you know it's all cool, I mean the refs and judges are corrupt anyway right???

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I agree, I have shouted about steroid use plenty of times on this forum

people are so down about margaritos loaded gloves, yet they love holyfield

I believe roids is a worse crime, that's another debate tho

and I don't think brunos pot/coke habits helped his boxing career did they?

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

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What did Bruno take?

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Pot, cocaine.....those are what he admits to. Tyson also was drugged up when he fought. But hey you know it's all cool, I mean the refs and judges are corrupt anyway right???

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I agree, I have shouted about steroid use plenty of times on this forum

people are so down about margaritos loaded gloves, yet they love holyfield

I believe roids is a worse crime, that's another debate tho

and I don't think brunos pot/coke habits helped his boxing career did they?

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It's debatable whether drug use helped or hurt Bruno or any other fighter...drugs can put you in a state of mind you're not able to reach on your own. I would rather fight a regular Mike Tyson than one coked out of his gourd same with Bruno.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

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What did Bruno take?

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Pot, cocaine.....those are what he admits to. Tyson also was drugged up when he fought. But hey you know it's all cool, I mean the refs and judges are corrupt anyway right???

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I agree, I have shouted about steroid use plenty of times on this forum

people are so down about margaritos loaded gloves, yet they love holyfield

I believe roids is a worse crime, that's another debate tho

and I don't think brunos pot/coke habits helped his boxing career did they?

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It's debatable whether drug use helped or hurt Bruno or any other fighter...drugs can put you in a state of mind you're not able to reach on your own. I would rather fight a regular Mike Tyson than one coked out of his gourd same with Bruno.

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I wont have you say anything bad about Bruno or I will start getting emotional :mad:

He would have been a top opponent in any era. Strong, hard chinned, hard punching and relentless. Could have knocked useless Bruno flat!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

He would have been a top opponent in any era. Strong, hard chinned, hard punching and relentless. Could have knocked useless Bruno flat!

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you don't know what the fuck youre going on about soz :)