Its getting ridiculous now thou,youve got guys like Valuev and Lewis lumbering around the ring,and all they have to do is land a single punch. The weight classes need some restructuring,and thats the easiest fixQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Printable View
Its getting ridiculous now thou,youve got guys like Valuev and Lewis lumbering around the ring,and all they have to do is land a single punch. The weight classes need some restructuring,and thats the easiest fixQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Ali was and still is the greatest.
Rocky Marciano fought more bums then i have ever seen, just another sven otke if you ask me.
Joe louise was great and on par or just below Muhammad Ali, but Rocky's just a shoe shiner in comparison.
Ali vs. Rocky - in their prime. I think Ali would have got him on points, he was damn quick after all, but if Rocky got him once or twice with that right hand, then I think Ali would have gone down hard. :boxing2:
If I were to list the top three....
1. ALI, for his speed, skill, and ambassadorship of the sport.
2. LOUIS, for his skill and lengthy title reign of 11 years and 10 months.
3. ROCKY, 49-0 speaks for itself, plus he could knock out God if he got an opening.
Ali was the greatest.
My top 3 Greatest (different from the best)
1. Ali - No one ever, even to this day, saw a heavyweight who moved like a welterweight. Not to mention the fact that, outside of Marvin Hagler, the man had the greatest chin in boxing history, a fact that is outshadowed by his offensive prowess, much like the fact that Michael Jordan was the greatest defensive player in the NBA and that was overshadowed by his awesome scoring and dunking from the free throw line, etc.
2. Foreman - The man was Goliath. Imagine Marvin Hagler or Jake LaMotta getting knocked down 7 times in 2 rounds and knocked out. Impossible. But that's exactly what Foreman did to Frazier, who was from the exact same cloth as them. Strongest, most powerful heavyweight who ever walked the Earth.
3. Dempsey - This man was Tyson 60 years before Tyson. He was bigger and more famous than Babe Ruth. In the Golden Era of Sports, he was number 1. He didn't beat opponents, he mugged them into submission.
It's Joe LOUIS....and Rocky fought Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore not to mention Joe Louis who was old but still dangerous as Joe never went into a fight thinking he couldn't win it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKAY
And MIKAY for you telling me that I "suk" I will tell you a little secret.......I don't give a fuck what you think and you can go fuck yourself.
Have a nice day ;)
Yes but Chagaev who is FAR from a super heavyweight ( 6'1 228 )beat Valuev(7'0 319) and hell you could make a case for Monte Barrett hurting Valuev because he did...and Taras Bidenko tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Lennox Lewis was one thing, but right now the Lewis', Bowe's, and Klitschko's of the world don't come along very often and even if they did they don't stick around very long.
I think if you put Joe Calzaghe or Kelly Pavlik in with the right heavyweight they would win
But lets face it,its the bread and butter division of boxing,and these guys are slower then dirt,it sucks the life out of the whole sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleYes but Chagaev who is FAR from a super heavyweight ( 6'1 228 )beat Valuev(7'0 319) and hell you could make a case for Monte Barrett hurting Valuev because he did...and Taras Bidenko tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Lennox Lewis was one thing, but right now the Lewis', Bowe's, and Klitschko's of the world don't come along very often and even if they did they don't stick around very long.
I think if you put Joe Calzaghe or Kelly Pavlik in with the right heavyweight they would win
I mean you can get a good win against them,but even having them box in the division screws things up
I found this on George Foreman's web site. His ratings ofthe top 10 heavy's of all time....
- Joe Louis.
To be honest with you, number two is way off. Joe Louis is in a
class by himself.- Rocky Marciano.Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't
take that from him.- Jack Johnson.A big brave cat, because he'd do whatever he wanted and get out of
the way.- Muhammad Ali. Put him down as the GREATEST MAN to ever box, and a hero
bigger than boxing. Once Ali lost his speed, it only showed that
he'd never developed a great defense.- Joe Frazier.
Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe
Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands.- Jack Dempsy.
Jack Dempsy's very name means strength and courage. Other than
Joe Louis, there is not a name in boxing or in sports with more
meaning.- Mike Tyson. A phenomenon. What Mike Tyson was able to do with his speed of
hand and punching power is as phenomenal as what Muhammad
Ali did when he was Cassius Clay with speed of feet. Tyson
deserves to be in the top ten; this is where I put him, the youngest
man to become Heavyweight Champion of the World.- Sonny Liston.If Sonny Liston truly had not lost his cool, had not underestimated a
young Cassius Clay; and kept the same mind set that he had as a
contender, history would have been a lot kinder to him. Sonny
Liston could not believe Muhammad Ali was so fast and had so
much courage. It just made him fall apart.- Floyd Patterson. The First Two-Time Heavyweight Champion of the World.
- Evander Holyfield. For standing up to Mike Tyson
As you see, I didn't make the list...
The first time around, George Foreman was too mean and too crude.
The second time around, too sophisticated and too publicity conscious to
exploit his power...
Honorable Mention (Alphabetically ordered)
- Max Baer
- Ezzard Charles
- Jersey Joe Walcott
Larry Holmes didn't make the list because Foreman hates Holmes and vice a versa. But still even if you hate the guy you should still do an unbiased list which that clearly isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
Holmes come in at 3, maybe 2 on my list
LOL. Your a funny guy. Its sad to see you, so getting mad on a boxing forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleIt's Joe LOUIS....and Rocky fought Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore not to mention Joe Louis who was old but still dangerous as Joe never went into a fight thinking he couldn't win it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKAY
And MIKAY for you telling me that I "suk" I will tell you a little secret.......I don't give a fuck what you think and you can go fuck yourself.
Have a nice day ;)
Rocky cant hold a candle to Ali wether it be accomplishments or talent wise. Ali brought us "rumble in the jungle" whilst Rocky brought us a old Joe LOUIS (is that correct spelling?)
Whats funny is you bringing up spelling mistakes as a insult, damm you must be desperate.
Holmes went into the Tyson fight thinking he could win it aswell?? So your point is??
Ali brought us "rumble in the jungle" whilst Rocky brought us a old Joe LOUIS.
SIMPLE
Of course Rocky and Joe were able to pick and choose the fighters they had in their era.
What do you seek to accomplish by dragging this out?
As per your spelling mistakes, the simplest of people know that Louise is a woman's name and if you're going to post about Joe Louis you're going to do it correctly because he's the greatest heavyweight of all-time and he deserves some respect no matter what you think of him....I don't call Ali Allie...but then again maybe I was a little harsh on you...you might be so ignorant that you actually think that Louise is the correct spelling, sorry for overestimating you.
Larry Holmes didn't have time to fully prepare for the fight with Tyson...of course he went in thinking he could win as he was a great heavyweight and went into every fight thinking that.
However Joe Louis was still an active fighter when he fought Rocky (having fought 7 fights in 1951 prior to fighting Rocky) and Larry Holmes on the other hand was in semi-retirement following his "losses" to Michael Spinks in 1986.....2 years later he fights Mike Tyson, no tune up, and no full training camp.
Holmes was actually scared for the first time in his career when he fought Tyson, i actually don't really believe he thought he could win. Plus he had very limited time to train and he was ring rusty and past his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKAYLOL. Your a funny guy. Its sad to see you, so getting mad on a boxing forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleIt's Joe LOUIS....and Rocky fought Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore not to mention Joe Louis who was old but still dangerous as Joe never went into a fight thinking he couldn't win it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKAY
And MIKAY for you telling me that I "suk" I will tell you a little secret.......I don't give a fuck what you think and you can go fuck yourself.
Have a nice day ;)
Rocky cant hold a candle to Ali wether it be accomplishments or talent wise. Ali brought us "rumble in the jungle" whilst Rocky brought us a old Joe LOUIS (is that correct spelling?)
Whats funny is you bringing up spelling mistakes as a insult, damm you must be desperate.
Holmes went into the Tyson fight thinking he could win it aswell?? So your point is??
Had Holmes had the full time to prepare he more than likely would have still lost but I think he would have done a lot better as his footwork and timing on his punches would have been better than what it was.
Holmes didn't have the best of chins....he could recover because he did get blasted on and hit the canvas only to get back up and win, but if you hit him he was going to get a little shook up.
Plus Holmes wasn't the big KO puncher that Tyson was so given the circumstances obviously Don King wanted a big stage where Tyson could show off and dominate. The only way Larry was going to have a chance was to take Tyson late into the fight and wear him down (as he did in his career and as Tyson lost in his career) but even with training that was going to be damn near impossible for Holmes to do.
[QUOTE=Lyle;520022]
What do you seek to accomplish by dragging this out?
<b> I was refering to your point where you were trying to justify the fight with LOUIS being an incredible accomplishments for Rocky, when infact it wasnt. How many OLD fighters in history have we seen fighting to late into there careers, just to get knocked out, thinking they could win. It is clear to everybody that LOUIS was way past his best when he fought Rocky and he fight shouldnt have happened in the first place. The holmes v tyson reference may not have been a good example but im sure you understoud what i was trying to say and if not - Many over the hill fighters who should have retired have fought them last couple of extra fights thinking they could win but sadly it was only them thinking they could win.</b>
As per your spelling mistakes, the simplest of people know that Louise is a woman's name and if you're going to post about Joe Louis you're going to do it correctly because he's the greatest heavyweight of all-time and he deserves some respect no matter what you think of him....I don't call Ali Allie...but then again maybe I was a little harsh on you...you might be so ignorant that you actually think that Louise is the correct spelling, sorry for overestimating you.
<b> Did you not consider that an E was just a typo or is that just beyond your imagination. However again your using typo's in your agument which again shoe=w signs of a desperate man.</b>
<b>Again i say Ali brought us "Rumble in the jungle" "Thriller in Manilla" what did Rocky bring us?</b>
QUOTE]
When Holmes started dancing at the start of the 4th? it was horrid, it was like watching your dad dancing at a wedding - awful
Yeah it's a shame because Larry in his prime (or even at that late stage of his career) had the jab that could have posed some intersting questions for Tyson. I don't think it would have been enough to confuse Tyson enough to alter the outcme but the fight would certainly have lasted longer and been more competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I don't think Larry was scared as someone suggested - I just think that at his age, with the layoff and less than 100% training camp he knew there was a good chance that it was going to be a hard night and with a painful outcome.
I never said it was an "incredible accomplishment"...I just said he was a great fighter Rocky beat granted Louis was well past his prime but Louis was still an active fighter and therefore more dangerous for Rocky than an untrained Larry Holmes was for Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKAY
What did Rocky bring us? Guts, blood, heart.....the greatest KO punch of all time vs one of the best heavyweights of all-time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9msELiZKyU
But hey you have no respect for Rocky, it's not my loss it's yours...if you don't want to recognize the greatness of a fighter who wasn't the biggest or most skilled but one of the hardest workers and who never gave up and never quit punching then fine...I don't care, continue on with your ignorance
I do not believe Mikay is saying that Rocky was not a great fighter, just not the greatest.
...I'm not making the arguement that he's the greatest either, I have Joe Louis in that spot.
Im glad someone understands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
No doubt rocky was the king of his era but as for all time greats i dont rank him alongside Ali or Louis, just personal preference.
The main reason why some say Rocky is the greatest is bcos of his 0 which really doesnt mean anything if your fighting low rate fighters. Im guessing its just uneducated boxing fans who rate him highly bcos of the hype and the 0. In a few years time the same uneducated boxing fans will be saying Joe C is the graetest ever to grace us.
Rocky didn't duck anyone...Rocky fought everyone there was to fight and never lost. That is not the same as Calzaghe, who had fighters duck him and a case could be made that he ducked some guys and Ottke who never left the comfort of home and ducked plenty of fighters.
All I'm saying is Rocky was a legitimate undefeated undisputed heavyweight champion of the world and he fought everyone there was to prove himself.
Liston, Patterson, and Johanssen came along too late for Rocky to fight them....all that was there for Rocky to fight Rocky beat, you cannot deny the greatness of Marciano....rate him however you feel like. I don't care but I have him as the #2 Heavyweight of All-Time