Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

I think an old George vs old Tyson fight would be pretty dull. If Tyson waited, George could land the jab. Tyson would slip it and land some thudding body punches, and george would tie him up. Then he'd jab until Tyson slipped and landed some hard blows to the head. Lot's of wrestling, so who would wear down? That favors Tyson, but he'd land some hellacious body punches coming in.
Tyson was probably shorter when he was younger. The combination of jail food and Holyfield's ear may have caused a growth spurt late in life.

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Originally Posted by Master

Tyson was busy busting up Donovan Razzor the SMASH Ruddock who was far more dangerous at the time that George, so put those silly conspiracy theories to one side and deal with the reality that George was lucky he did not face Tyson.

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Foreman was more consistent in his skill and shape than Ruddock EVER was.


George Foreman is perhaps the single scariest fighter of all time....sure people can say what they want to about Tyson and people just chalk all that shit up to "Well Tyson was crazy"....dude George was flat out MEAN he found Jesus and all but fucking Hell, in the ring George would just batter his opponents. To be that big, that slow, but that effective....come on now fella. Foreman won a Gold medal in the Olympics after only 1 year of boxing....1 year....the man is a freak of nature!!! The Great Joe Frazier who beat Ali set foot in the ring with Foreman and just got bombed out from all angles....the Frazier that had never tasted defeat, never lost, and Foreman just stalked him down and delivered a merciless beating.

George Foreman would demolish Mike Tyson there is no doubt in my mind. Foreman's main punches being hooks and uppercuts would have connected vs Tyson despite the bobbing and weaving.

Here's what bugs me when talking about Tyson. VS Marciano people say "Well Tyson is just too big".....ok and vs 'Big' George Foreman what does that make Tyson??? Its a double standard a blatant one at that.

You are really stretching yourself, Foreman being fitter than Ruddock at that time! You must be joking Big George was a gimmick he carefully selected his opponents, there was no way he would fight Lewis. Prime Foreman was brutal but the old Foreman was wiser and had a better jab but nowhere as good.

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Originally Posted by Master

You are really stretching yourself, Foreman being fitter than Ruddock at that time! You must be joking Big George was a gimmick he carefully selected his opponents, there was no way he would fight Lewis. Prime Foreman was brutal but the old Foreman was wiser and had a better jab but nowhere as good.

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Who is talking about Lennox Lewis?!?! Tyson was broke and forced by circumstances to fight Lennox ....George was 45 why the Hell would he fight a PRIME Lewis?

Gimmick my ass Foreman was a beast end of argument

Old Foreman was no joke... he fought a ton of bums when he first came back (something he readily admits to), but come on... to go the distance and give hell to guys like Holyfield and Morrison, to KTFO Moorer, to whip a young Shannon Briggs at 48... Big George was a freak of nature.

I'm an agnostic and I generally can't stand hearing religious people babble on about "god this" and "god that", but if ONE thing could make me believe in Jesus, it was Foreman's comeback run lol.

In hindsight, Foreman's win against Moorer was one of the worst things to happen to boxing, because it put the thought in every fat, washed up fighter's head that "hey, I think I have a comeback in me, look what Big George did", which lead to the death of many brain cells haha

He did get tooled by Jimmy Young though!

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Originally Posted by Master

You are really stretching yourself, Foreman being fitter than Ruddock at that time! You must be joking Big George was a gimmick he carefully selected his opponents, there was no way he would fight Lewis. Prime Foreman was brutal but the old Foreman was wiser and had a better jab but nowhere as good.

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Mentally and in self awareness he was hands down superior to young tightly wound wreckless Foreman, that and his power in any punch he threw serves him better vs Tyson I think. Ruddock was basically a one trick pony.

Foreman in his prime was a scary mother fucker i think with Tyson's mental problems he would be in some deep shit when he found out he was not kncking him out. Also so what if a Prime Evander wobbled him people forget Holyfeild could punch in his prime shit first guy to put mercer on his ass. If Evander got in the ring with Rudduck he would of tooled him hard. Hell i think a old Foreman is better win then anything Tyson ever did still don't know why he did not get in the ring with him to be honest with you Foreman would be a good win no doubt to have.

Who says Tyson couldn't knock out Foreman?

Yeah, a slightly past it Muhammad Ali was able to knock out a prime George Foreman, and Ali wasn't even a puncher! Somehow a puncher like Tyson couldn't?

Even that powder-puff puncher Jimmy Young dropped Foreman...

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Who says Tyson couldn't knock out Foreman?

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I certainly agree, I think people forget Tyson carriers bombs that come out you quicker than you can see from all sorts of angles. Not to mention Tyson is an overall better boxer than George, those that disregard Tyson as a boxer really have to be questioned for their boxing IQ. He has great defense, timing, power, speed and a tremendous chin. Only thing foreman has is a size advantage, but so did everyone fighting Tyson . Tyson (in his prime) destroys evander, foreman, or lennox

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Who says Tyson couldn't knock out Foreman?

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He COULD but he wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Boxer4life

Tyson (in his prime) destroys evander, foreman, or lennox

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All one after the other with 1 hand behind his back??? And Tyson probably would beat up their Dads' too :rolleyes:

That's the kind of bullshit statement that really irks me about Tyson fans. He'd never beat Evander NEVER he was hard pressed to win a round vs Evander when Evander had been a 20-1 underdog a week before the fight!!!!

Maybe when Lennox Lewis was younger Tyson would have had a better chance to beat him, but again the style Lennox Lewis used was Tyson's kryptonite.

As for Foreman you all know my views on him...could Tyson hurt or knock down an old or even Prime George Foreman yes....could Tyson stop him???? Well the guy only got stopped 1 time EVER and that was by a guy who many fans consider "The Greatest of All-Time"...and newsflash Mike Tyson isn't Ali and he's not Jimmy Young either he's a different kind of fighter altogether. Foreman would scare Tyson simple as that, he'd scare him and batter him like a piñata

Old George Foreman would have knocked out Tyson? That's nearly as funny as throwing a hissy fit over Tyson's exact height. Jesus.......

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Old George Foreman would have knocked out Tyson? That's nearly as funny as throwing a hissy fit over Tyson's exact height. Jesus.......

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Fine you think that, I don't buy Tyson as a threat to Foreman

Long ago, I had a pal, non-boxing fan, but Boxing was red hot right then and attracting loads of casual fans.
Sugar Ray Leonard had just boxed Marvelous Marvin Hagler in '87, World Champ Iron Mike Tyson was in his prime and fighting every few months unifying Titles in '87 and was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, and highlights of his fights played on various sports shows and even regular news shows.
My pal says, "Hey, why doesn't that Sugar Ray guy fight Mike Tyson, that Sugar Ray was pretty good!"

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Old George Foreman would have knocked out Tyson? That's nearly as funny as throwing a hissy fit over Tyson's exact height. Jesus.......

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Fine you think that, I don't buy Tyson as a threat to Foreman

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We are talking about old George Foreman version, then Tyson would have beaten him like he did Ruddock, battered, bruised and beaten.

Old George struggled against Axel Schultz and Tommy, he was not a beast.

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Originally Posted by Master

We are talking about old George Foreman version, then Tyson would have beaten him like he did Ruddock, battered, bruised and beaten.

Old George struggled against Axel Schultz and Tommy, he was not a beast.

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Tommy Morrison ran his ass off in that fight boxing George....you telling me Tyson would have done that?

Tyson knows 1 way to fight and that 1 way wouldn't beat George....now if Tyson deliberately went for a decision win, sure he might have a better chance, but the way Tyson fought all his fights gunning for KO's yeah that's a recipe for disaster vs Foreman.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

We are talking about old George Foreman version, then Tyson would have beaten him like he did Ruddock, battered, bruised and beaten.

Old George struggled against Axel Schultz and Tommy, he was not a beast.

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Tommy Morrison ran his ass off in that fight boxing George....you telling me Tyson would have done that?

Tyson knows 1 way to fight and that 1 way wouldn't beat George....now if Tyson deliberately went for a decision win, sure he might have a better chance, but the way Tyson fought all his fights gunning for KO's yeah that's a recipe for disaster vs Foreman.

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Not the old George Foreman we are talking about, too fat and slow.

I say any version of George is too slow. Tyson is a guy who had comparable power to George and comparable handspeed to Ali. He also had solid defense and head/body movement. It's hard for me to picture him getting caught with those swinging uppercuts that Frazier got caught with, but to each his own I guess.

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Originally Posted by Master

Not the old George Foreman we are talking about, too fat and slow.

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Yes and Iron Mike would have come straight to him....that was the main reason behind Foreman's success vs Moorer. MM stopped boxing and tried to "prove a point" vs Foreman and sadly for Michael the point ended up being how Foreman could still punch....and hard.

If you're thinking Tyson was just going to waltz in there and land a haymaker overhand right and that George would just allow that then you're sorely mistaken

I think Old George would do better against Tyson than Young George!

Old George was pretty smart in the ring, and with his thick-ass arms and high trunks he really utilized the crab defense better than almost anyone.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Not the old George Foreman we are talking about, too fat and slow.

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Yes and Iron Mike would have come straight to him....that was the main reason behind Foreman's success vs Moorer. MM stopped boxing and tried to "prove a point" vs Foreman and sadly for Michael the point ended up being how Foreman could still punch....and hard.

If you're thinking Tyson was just going to waltz in there and land a haymaker overhand right and that George would just allow that then you're sorely mistaken

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Moorer had a china chin.

Tyson never went straight at an opponent he move from side to side, had head movement and blistering combinations, the version that would have fought old Foreman was still good enough to do it and win.

How the funk can you make a case for Old Foreman beating Tyson through Moorer?

Moorer was knocked down about 3 million times during his career. Tyson was stopped after getting a savage beating.

Moorer also beat the crap out of Foreman for nearly every minute of the fight until he was one punched, Foreman wouldn't have held up to Tyson landing half as much. This thread is such a ruin though:D

Tyson went straight at Holyfield why would he fight Foreman differently?

Tyson was a 1 at a time puncher by the time Foreman came back.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Tyson went straight at Holyfield why would he fight Foreman differently?

Tyson was a 1 at a time puncher by the time Foreman came back.

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I am sure this was Tyson before his jail sentence so he was still decent at that time.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Sure he had a weaker era than most done.

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Did he?

Weaker than Dempsey's Louis' Marciano's Liston's Holmes', Wlad's?

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Moorer also beat the crap out of Foreman for nearly every minute of the fight until he was one punched, Foreman wouldn't have held up to Tyson landing half as much. This thread is such a ruin though:D

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Moorer was such an idiot!

That weak era talk is basically bull$#!t...

The ones not suited to be professional boxers are weeded out all along, and never make it to the world stage.
Most people don't even consider being boxers; they're weeded out immediately.

Would-be tough guys with no training who think they can fight because they won a few bar brawls against other non-trained drunken guys never even have the interest nor discipline to set foot in a gym and see what real fighting is all about.

Beginning the 1st day a young interested guy sets foot in the gym, the weeding out process continues as most quickly quit the gym when they see it's not like the Rocky films. Most never have a single amateur bout before they quit.
The tougher ones spend years in the unpaid amateur ranks among about 54 thousand other amateur fighters. It's a world-sports. In 2008, 77 countries sent teams to the Olympics. The weeding out continues.

There's approximately 16 thousand licensed professional boxers right now.

In a single weight class like Heavyweight for example, you've got about a thousand licensed professional Heavyweight fighters, and the brass ring at the top is 8 million up to 46 million per fight, you're gonna get the cream of the crop, the best the world has to offer. Weak era, my rosy red rectum. The money and the competition have ALWAYS been there in open-world wide competition designed to reveal the best.

If a Heavyweight Champion doesn't have a style or charisma that galvanizes the fans, so what? It doesn't take away from the fact that he must be pretty damn good to be #1, the King of All Boxing because none of these other 15 lighter weight classes can f*<k with the Heavyweight Champ of the World.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn46yeOUcJw

^ See? Guys like this get weeded out. And too many guys imagine they look like Tyson hitting the bag when in reality, they appear to others more like this unfortunate soul in the clip...

You know people saying that Rudduck was better choice then Foreman i dont really understand because it is not like Rudduck beat anyone of note. As for Moorer he hit like a truck and was fast as fuck and Foreman still pulled it off i don't care how Tyson takes a punch Foreman lays one on him good enough Foreman wins the fight. As for a younger Foreman losing to Ali no way in hell Tyson pulls that off he was a dumb fighter but gifted psychically. Foreman has beat some one at least close to Tyson has Tyson fought any one or thing like a Foreman and won tell me because i cant think of one.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

he was a dumb fighter but gifted psychically.

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Just by saying that, I can tell you have absolutely no grasp on the talent and skill that Tyson had.

I've seen a lot of people here talk about Tyson like he was some plodding pressure fighter like Joe Frazier, who would take 3 blows to land one. Like all he had was a big punch.

If you feel that way, you shouldn't be talking about the guy.

And if you're one of those guys who thinks Tyson's era was shit, tell us what era (besides Ali's era) was considered better.

so hows this thread going? have we ended the debate?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Boxer4life

Tyson (in his prime) destroys evander, foreman, or lennox

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All one after the other with 1 hand behind his back??? And Tyson probably would beat up their Dads' too :rolleyes:

That's the kind of bullshit statement that really irks me about Tyson fans. He'd never beat Evander NEVER he was hard pressed to win a round vs Evander when Evander had been a 20-1 underdog a week before the fight!!!!

Maybe when Lennox Lewis was younger Tyson would have had a better chance to beat him, but again the style Lennox Lewis used was Tyson's kryptonite.

As for Foreman you all know my views on him...could Tyson hurt or knock down an old or even Prime George Foreman yes....could Tyson stop him???? Well the guy only got stopped 1 time EVER and that was by a guy who many fans consider "The Greatest of All-Time"...and newsflash Mike Tyson isn't Ali and he's not Jimmy Young either he's a different kind of fighter altogether. Foreman would scare Tyson simple as that, he'd scare him and batter him like a piñata

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lol well i didnt say all that, but i disagree, Tyson that fought holyfield was a shell of his former self, and in the second fight mike was getting the best of him in teh exchanges, he bit his ear in a attempt t0 stop him from buttin and after the second time it worked, and holfiled looked lost when he couldnt tie up, young mike would leave evander on a stretcher, and Lewis? Kryptonite? gtfo

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Sure he had a weaker era than most done.

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Did he?

Weaker than Dempsey's Louis' Marciano's Liston's Holmes', Wlad's?

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His best foes before he tangled with Holyfield and Lewis in "their era" were a light heavyweight Michael Spinks, an older faded champion in Larry Holmes, and 2 guys who were just solid contenders but never really got the most out of their ability in Bruno & Ruddock.

Dempsey fought Gene Tunney who was one of the best p4p fighters to ever live...as a champion he was lazy something like 5 title defenses or so...the good life got to him.

Louis had 25 successful title defenses and that could have been more had the war not cost him a few years.

Marciano wasn't even really a heavyweight but he was undefeated as one, undefeated vs some very good albeit older fighters

Liston meh his era was weak

Holmes had a lot of good young fighters in his era and they just tried for too much too quickly and also there was a horrible drug epidemic sweeping the lower levels of society at that time as well so a lot of those guys didn't reach their potential.

Wlad's era isn't the best but like Louis he's just going to have to make the best of it and go for quantity. However he does have some younger guys that could offer some interesting matchups, we'll just have to see how they pan out.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Sure he had a weaker era than most done.

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Did he?

Weaker than Dempsey's Louis' Marciano's Liston's Holmes', Wlad's?

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His best foes before he tangled with Holyfield and Lewis in "their era" were a light heavyweight Michael Spinks, an older faded champion in Larry Holmes, and 2 guys who were just solid contenders but never really got the most out of their ability in Bruno & Ruddock.

Dempsey fought Gene Tunney who was one of the best p4p fighters to ever live...as a champion he was lazy something like 5 title defenses or so...the good life got to him.

Louis had 25 successful title defenses and that could have been more had the war not cost him a few years.

Marciano wasn't even really a heavyweight but he was undefeated as one, undefeated vs some very good albeit older fighters

Liston meh his era was weak

Holmes had a lot of good young fighters in his era and they just tried for too much too quickly and also there was a horrible drug epidemic sweeping the lower levels of society at that time as well so a lot of those guys didn't reach their potential.

Wlad's era isn't the best but like Louis he's just going to have to make the best of it and go for quantity. However he does have some younger guys that could offer some interesting matchups, we'll just have to see how they pan out.

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On paper, Tysons resume wasn't impressive compared to some of the greater champions, but god dammit we saw what the man can do, and he would fare prett damn great against anyone in any era, thats what the debate really comes down to, is more skill, not so much resume of opponents, accomplishments. etc..

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Originally Posted by Boxer4life

On paper, Tysons resume wasn't impressive compared to some of the greater champions, but god dammit we saw what the man can do, and he would fare prett damn great against anyone in any era, thats what the debate really comes down to, is more skill, not so much resume of opponents, accomplishments. etc..

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Tyson's record always left me wanting him to have more fights especially in the 1990's and early 2000's. There were a boatload of guys he could have fought and that would have been good matches and great matches even.

Riddick Bowe
Shannon Briggs
Ray Mercer
Tommy Morrison
Chris Byrd
Ike Ibeabuchi
David Tua
Hasim Rahman
Oliver McCall
Vitali
Wlad
Sam Peter
Michael Moorer
Michael Grant
Gerry Cooney
George Foreman
James Toney
Lamon Brewster
Sergei Liakhovich
John Ruiz

I could list fighters for days...and sure lots of them would be short work for Tyson but as Tyson aged a lot of those guys would have given him hell and would have beaten the dog piss out of him due to his slowing down and ineffectiveness at being a pressure fighter later on in his career.

I'm more realistic about Tyson's career than the fanboys, but still you'd love to see him fight anyone and everyone his style was just such a good matchup for any other style.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Boxer4life

On paper, Tysons resume wasn't impressive compared to some of the greater champions, but god dammit we saw what the man can do, and he would fare prett damn great against anyone in any era, thats what the debate really comes down to, is more skill, not so much resume of opponents, accomplishments. etc..

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Tyson's record always left me wanting him to have more fights especially in the 1990's and early 2000's. There were a boatload of guys he could have fought and that would have been good matches and great matches even.

Riddick Bowe
Shannon Briggs
Ray Mercer
Tommy Morrison
Chris Byrd
Ike Ibeabuchi
David Tua
Hasim Rahman
Oliver McCall
Vitali
Wlad
Sam Peter
Michael Moorer
Michael Grant
Gerry Cooney
George Foreman
James Toney
Lamon Brewster
Sergei Liakhovich
John Ruiz

I could list fighters for days...and sure lots of them would be short work for Tyson but as Tyson aged a lot of those guys would have given him hell and would have beaten the dog piss out of him due to his slowing down and ineffectiveness at being a pressure fighter later on in his career.

I'm more negative about Tyson's career than everyone else, but still you'd love to see him fight anyone and everyone his style was just such a good matchup for any other style.

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i made some changes to your post :)