Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
I had this fight 116-112 for Bivol. The real fight was in the 6-10 rounds, which I gave Bivol most of. Bivol also won the first three rounds in my books. Beterbiev won the last two rounds, but not convincingly as people made it seem to turn the fight around.
I think we place too much emphasis on the last two rounds for aggression. Like, what did you expect Bivol to do? Stand in front of Beterbiev and get knocked out? Like, wtf? Why would he do that?
To ask a man to forget his boxing skills and stand toe to toe against a power puncher in the late rounds when he was already winning the boxing match is barbaric and silly.
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson3.0
And I want to say something else about AB.
You know I'm a year older than AB. He's 39.
When I was a lot younger and stupid, I tried PEDS (light dosage and light stuffs, like deca, test, oxandrolone, stanozolol and Metandienone) of course not all in 1 cycle. I have like 3-4 cycle in total but I pretty much know most stuffs, and I know how it works. I have to say that I've ALWAYS been suspicious of AB. Nobody can out macho him. He's just a tank. His strength is not normal.
His last two fights were postponed due to "injury"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZyPfmaW...pg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZyPiuXW...pg&name=medium
And then he had his testosrone controversy
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZyPiurX...png&name=large
I just don't buy that at the 39 years old, you will somehow have "elevated" levels especially for this, and HGH (Human Growth Hormone) is one of the key stuffs for athlete to take. Body naturally can produce a lot of stuffs, but your test is going to be hit when you hit 32-33, and especially at your late 30s. I don't know much about the HGH, as it's dangerous, but the benefits for athletes are huge. This is just ain't a good look. Let's be real he was most likely cycling off,
But it could mean anything. It could very well means Beterbiev is juicing like mad, and he mismanaged his cycle, and that's why he delays fight and they slipped up with the cycle/masking agents etc.
Or it could very well be just an unusual case, and Beterbiev is clean as a whistle.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was roided out of his mind. Any big outlier who fights like a wrecking ball should be suspect.
If a fighter has atypically high levels of endogenous hormones, then you would expect them to continually test at an "abnormal" level. Sudden spikes are only indicative of a mistimed cycle. And somehow magically his next few test, somehow was in the norm
Russia's Olympic teams were doping like nuts when Beterbiev competed for them, so I'd be very, very surprised if he wasn't on the sauce by then. Also unlikely that he went cold turkey as a pro and was unfortunate enough to have an "atypical" result. The only way to have higher than normal Testosterone and HGH levels at 39 years old is by being on Peds. There is no way to have high level of test at 39 years old, and be natural.
Trust me I know.
As Master has said, innocent until proven guilty. But I'm on board with all of this. There is something seriously suspect about him. OK, You can't condemn a man for looking like a stone cold killer who is carved out of granite. But fucking hell.
I said exactly the same things months ago. Getting stronger and fitter as he gets older. Having to postpone multiple fights back to back due to injuries. Both suspect.
The atypical thing. It's still a fucking mystery to me. Questions..
Prior to Beterbiev/Smith. Can anyone recall reading or hearing about a fighter returning an atypical result? As in it becoming worthy of mention publicly?
Since Beterbiev/Smith. Have there been a glut of further A typical results that have been worthy of public consumption?
How the fuck does an atypical finding differ from someone blatantly taking PEDS? Because post Beterbiev/Smith, every Tom Dick and Harry became an expert in atypical results and what they meant. But every expert explanation I read, sounded exactly like someone taking, and then cycling off of a drug.
Again. Innocent until proven guilty. And there's no real accusation of guilt to be fair. But the whole Beterbiev setup strikes me as suspect.
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Fight should have been a draw
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
i had artur by a round but i wouldn't argue with either guy winning by a round. a draw would have been reasonable. close fight for me
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
i had artur by a round but i wouldn't argue with either guy winning by a round. a draw would have been reasonable. close fight for me
Same here, I had Beterbiev 7-5 but it was an excellent elite level contest that was very close.
I think if you supported Bivol/Beterbiev you would have been swayed to call a close round to them because scoring is so subjective.
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Heavyweight Frazer Clarke has had surgery on his jaw and cheekbone following his first-round stoppage loss to Fabio Wardley in Saudi Arabia on Saturday.
The 33-year-old was taken to hospital after suffering a fracture high on his jaw in their British title fight.
Boxxer promoter Ben Shalom said Clarke underwent "minor" surgery in Riyadh on Sunday. He landed back in the United Kingdom on Monday morning.
"He's feeling more motivated than ever to come back bigger and better in the new year," Shalom told Sky Sports.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/a...s/cx24w33xyy4o
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
After the fight, the judges scorecards revealed they were split on just two occasions - the fourth and seventh rounds.
All the judges gave Bivol, 33, the first two rounds, eighth and the ninth round, while they were unanimous on Beterbiev winning the third, fifth, sixth, 10th, 11th and final round.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/a...s/ckg949wz3g4o
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
As Master has said, innocent until proven guilty.
I agree and AB supporters will point to the fact he's done 10 fights under VADA with zero failed tests. I don't know for 100% sure if AB is juicing or not but let me say, if you can't get away with juicing as a boxer, you're an imbecile. You know exactly when you're fighting, sometimes 4-5 months out and at least usually 3 months out. Most these big names fight around the same time every year like Canelo in May and September. So it's easy to stack on and off and come up clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
But I'm on board with all of this. There is something seriously suspect about him.
For sure, and if anyone is giving AB the benefit of the doubt, then maybe if you're comparing him to the average 39 year old man then yes Beterbiev has elevated HGH and testosterone levels - he eats clean, sleeps early, trains like a maniac and doesn't take drugs or drink alcohol. Those are all factors that contribute to raised levels of those hormones purely through lifestyle choices.
If however, you're comparing him to someone who DOES inject HGH and take TRT then his levels were lower. Then you have to take into account his genetics. He has low bodyfat, dense bones and huge hands. Those are signs of people with larger than usual Test and HGH.
Also, he's pure Caucus.
They don't mix with other races at all. Their women don't marry outside of Chechen tribes pretty much EVER so they have very distinct genetic markers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
OK, You can't condemn a man for looking like a stone cold killer who is carved out of granite. But fucking hell.
His team has said he goes to the Russian mountains to train prior to the start of his actual training camps. Possible he could take something during this phase to get a high stamina and strength baseline, but stops before the start of training camp.
But when I used PED's in my 20's I had chest acne but what you don't want see is chest acne in your 30's. I have noticed and posted before the Joe Smith Jr. bout, that in many of his fights, especially for a man in his upper 30's there is a large amount acne that is evident on his back and rear shoulders, which is sometimes a sign of steroid use. Chest acne for Beterbiev, who late 30's is not a good look.
Again this does not 100% prove guilty for AB but all I know is that a reasonable person could deduce that he probably cycles off just before he pops dirty. Remember there's top PED suppliers and doctors out there that openly say they're always one step ahead of the testing agencies and those agencies are always playing catch up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
I said exactly the same things months ago. Getting stronger and fitter as he gets older. Having to postpone multiple fights back to back due to injuries. Both suspect.
Cycle right, and no one pings you. Cycle wrong, and you're a headline. Go and ask Lance Armstrong.
Anyone who's used steroids before themselves (and thus knows what to look for) would know he's probably been one of the most obvious cases in the sport for a long time. I'm talking since the amateurs and certainly all throughout his pro career. I'm not suggesting that's where all his power comes from - if it was, many fighters would hit that hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
The atypical thing. It's still a fucking mystery to me. Questions..
Prior to Beterbiev/Smith. Can anyone recall reading or hearing about a fighter returning an atypical result? As in it becoming worthy of mention publicly
Drug testing in boxing is next to useless against anyone who isn't half-assing it. I'd say he's on HGH. Look at the size of AB's head. Compare the AB's pecs to Gvodsyk, and the oblique muscles (side chest) and AB traps must be a beast, coz he has a neck even young silverback would be proud of and his nose is starting to grow deformed and I don't think AB is the type the moistrize his skin but you can see reddish acne scars
https://d2fmj9q21jcbgm.cloudfront.ne...s._Gvozdyk.jpg
HGH HEAD
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZ8uF46W...jpg&name=large
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Since Beterbiev/Smith. Have there been a glut of further A typical results that have been worthy of public consumption?
How the fuck does an atypical finding differ from someone blatantly taking PEDS?
Beterbiev has elevated levels of Test and HGH, it's not necessarily because of PED use but it is a reason to suspect possible PED use.
They are two branches of the same tree. Both are reasons for suspicion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Because post Beterbiev/Smith, every Tom Dick and Harry became an expert in atypical results and what they meant. But every expert explanation I read, sounded exactly like someone taking, and then cycling off of a drug.
I'm FAR from an expert on this. I just write from my own experience of PED use when I was a teen and early 20's. I've always said that if I were a boxer and decided to to cheat (which I wouldnt, my PED use was not to harm someone but to get bigger) the two drugs I'd use would be HGH and TRT (or maybe it would just be testosterone). Using drugs that actually mimic natural hormones are nigh impossible to detect if done correctly.
I have to say, however, that if abuse is going on, they're other signs, which I'm sure ppl know about. For example, I've yet to see someone escape the dreaded body acne, especially bacne, when abusing androgens and AB has just that.
Sometimes there are visible signs that make it obvious, but another reason why I am suss about AB is that he's never in the media. He boxes then dissapears for the rest of the year. For HGH, one of the first things I notice is a change in a man's jawline. His chin will look different, kind of wider. This is why I thought a lot of these boxers start growing beards later on in their career, to hide the change to their jawline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Again. Innocent until proven guilty. And there's no real accusation of guilt to be fair. But the whole Beterbiev setup strikes me as suspect.
It'd be sad if Beterbiev turned out to be a drug cheat, I actually hope I'm wrong and AB is just built different, It's hard to tell really, but in my opinion ? I reckon Beterbiev is probably on the gear. But without solid proof in the bloods or urine then he can always claim innocent.
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson3.0
Beterbiev has elevated levels of Test and HGH, it's not necessarily because of PED use but it is a reason to suspect possible PED use.
This is the part I can't get my head around. If this is naturally occurring, how do they distinguish between this and a synthetic spike? A counter argument would be that he's been through VADA testing multiple times with no issue. But to me that raises even more questions or causes even more confusion. If every other testing cycle is concluded without issue, then it further isolates this one as an anomaly no? If he naturally produces elevated levels of testosterone, it would make more sense that he return repeated 'atypical' results. Still suspect, but makes more sense than a single instance. This may be the case. But we only hear about one instance?
I don't want him to be dirty. I'm not even making a case against him. I just don't understand it. Every time I turn this atypical stuff over in my head, I come to the same conclusion. This sounds exactly like someone taking PED's.
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
turki has uploaded all the fights to his youtube channel if anyone needs them
https://www.youtube.com/@Turki_alalshikh/videos
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Has Turki had an argument with Eddie or is that all hype?
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Has Turki had an argument with Eddie or is that all hype?
I can't believe Eddie is going to fuck up all of this Saudi money. smt.. Someone slap Eddie and shut him the fuck up, please?
Re: Bivol v Beterbiev next!
My scorecard ended up 115-113 for Beterbiev. It was closely contested and neither really committed to taking over at any stage. It might just be one of those clashes where no matter how many times they fight it will always be a close stale mate.
