Re: Joe Calzaghe under the micoscope
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Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
I never said, he DUCKED Bute. I was argue that he (or even Froch) would have been a better fight than freakin Manfredo. I'm not even being petty. I'm giving an example of the way Calzaghe has conducted his career, fighting the Manfredos, Kabary Salems, and Mger Mkrchians of the world. I'm even saying that he "ducked" anybody. He just didn't bother to fight them because he could get paid defending that stupid WBO trinket against third rate fighters. For years, he never made a reasonable attempt to unify. He never thought of abandoning his belt because the WBO's offering of manitory challengers was a joke. He held the belt fighting as many or more C-grade fighters than real contenders. They have been shifting tickets on mismatches for years with Calzaghe. That's exactly my point.
He gets credit, in this order for these fights:
He's fought two A-level fighters
Kessler, Hopkins
Here are the B-grades
Reid B+, Eubank (because he was shot, he falls here) B+, Lacy B, Sheika B , Mitchell B-, Bika B -, Veit C+.
The rest are crap, and notice, half of the decent names, including the two best, are in the last couple of years.
That's a good resume. Not a great one. And that's too bad, because he's a great fighter.
Let me put out a GREAT resume. Look at James Toney's resume at SMW and MW - Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum 2x, Iran Barkley, Reggie Johnson (prime),Charles Williams, oh, and a loss to an up and coming MW champ named Roy Jones Jr. Toss in Merqui Sosa and Tim Littles for fun.
That's a great resume.
Eubank fought one of his most impressive fights after Calzaghe. You can't say he was "shot." He took the fight at late-ish notice and had to struggle to get the weight off (that's the excuse i'm sure you was looking for ;)). Calzaghe had never been past 8 rounds (we can ignore that fact).
I think Toney was a great fighter. Those are some great wins (i'm sure if someone was petty enough they could take the form apart ;)). The majority of Toney's wins must have been against CRAP too, no?
?????? So, in other words, you are admitting that Calzaghe beat a Eubank who was far from 100%. You know it, but you don't want to admit that it matters.
And sure, Toney fought a lot of crap. He was also fighting every two to three months for a stretch, sometimes even in back to back months. Toney fought where ever, whenever he could for a stretch. After the Iran Barkley fight, he fought 13 fights in two years, with the last one being Roy Jones. Joe wouldn't have bones in his hands if he fought that much. James Toney fought more rounds than Calzaghe has sparred.
If Calzaghe goes all the way up to Cruiser and beats a guy as good as Jirov was at CW, we can talk. Add up all Toney's wins against quality opposition and it will come out to nearly the total of Calzaghe's fights.
I really don't understand your points at all Sean.
First in relation to Kessler deserving credit for the Beryer win I DO give him credit. He completely took him apart and I rate Kessler very very highly. It's one thing to say a fighter is on the slide or is ready to be beat, it's another thing entirely to actually step up and do it. Kessler gets full marks for destroying Beyer the way he did, even though he was expected to do so.
This leads me on the next point. Why are haters so quick to label fighters as shot, as if they would be KO'd or beat down no matter who they were facing? This is simply not the case.
You say Eubank was shot, no he wasnt! Sure he was no longer in his fighting prime and no longer the same fighter that knocked out Nigel Benn, but he was a million miles away from being shot.
Please if he was so shot, tell me which fighters destroyed him to expose this? He lost back to back against Steve Collins, who whilst not the most technically gifted fighter was tough as nails and jumped on Eubank not giving him time to pose and posture. Collins would ALWAYS have been a nightmare opponent for Eubank. And remember that Collins took a short notice fight against Mike McCallum and went 12 rounds, this guy was tough and no mug. Losing two hard fought fights to Collins is no disgrace at all.
Then after the Calzaghe fight Eubank jumped TWO weight divisions to challenge for Carl Thompsons cruiserweight title. If you've ever watched those fights you'll know he was unlucky to lose the first fight, and that he put Thompson down and should have put him away but typical let him back into the fight as Eubank was often prone to do. As it was there were some who argued that Chris won the fight.
In the rematch Eubank was ahead on two judges cards and level on another before the fight was stopped due to bad swelling on his eye. He was on his way to winning that fight. And this was a prime Carl Thompson, not the ancient Carl Thompson that KO'd the world's greatest heavyweight hope David Haye :rolleyes:
My point is that to label Eubank as shot is a complete injustice. He was a fantastic fighter, notoriously difficult to beat and even if he had to drop a lot of weight (like Toney did against Jones) and even if he wasn't in his absolute fighting prime he was still a major major major test for a young unproven Calzahge who had never fought anywhere near that class before.
It's seriously annoying when people just dismiss a great fighter as shot as if the win means nothing. Look at B Hop, people call him shot too, yet when has anyone EVER beaten him convincingly? He's not shot, he's still an incredibly difficult opponent to beat and is a great win on Calzaghe's resume.
Which brings us to Roy Jones. People are now dismissing him as shot as well again as if the win won't mean anything. But Jones is STILL a tremendously slick and difficult opponent. He suffered two devastating KO losses but Joe is NOT a big puncher like Tarver and Johnson and will be relying on outworking and outboxing Jones, a million miles away from an easy task.
If he beats Jones, even a 38 year old Jones it's STILL a huge win.
I havn't heard anyone write of Chad Dawson for almost losing to a 40 year old Glen Johnson and then beating a 40 year old 'shot' Tarver. It just does the fighter such a diservice. Dawson has a steller record beating 3 world champs now.
Finally onto James Toney. What does Toney have to do with Calzaghe? Why do you point out Toney's resume as if that proves Calzaghe is shit?
There are few fighters in the world who have a resume like James Toney, the guy is a legend, a real throwback, fought over 80 fights, there's simply nobody to compare him to in the modern era, certainly not in America. Julio Casear Chavez and Roberto Duran were the last fighters like Toney who fought virtually every month, took on all comers and had over 100 wins apiece. Nobody would dispute James Toney (actually on this site anything is possible) but just because he's an all time great doesn't mean Joe isn't a great fighter too.
It seems people get almost irrational when they talk about Calzaghe, discrediting every victory, even calling him shit because of the fights that DIDN'T happen :confused:
He's beaten every man he's ever faced. He's the second longest reigning champ of all time. He completely unified the super middleweight division, the first person ever to do so. He's the Rings official greatest supermiddleweight of all time.
If he was a Mexican flyweight everyone would love him and say he's awesome but because he's Welsh and a British fighter everyone hates him, even a bunch of unpatriotic Brits who typically like to run down their best talents :-\
Re: Joe Calzaghe under the micoscope
the truth is if people are debateing calzaghes record he only has himself to blame and no one else.............. ricky hatton made more money from one fight then joe had made in his whole carreer which says it all............ joe alwys took the easier fights........... the fight with hopkins was said to be made years earlier but failded........ they blames hopkins.......... the fight with roy jones was said to be made years earlier but failed.........they blamed roy jones.........pavlik was said to be offered the fight but it failed............they blamed pavlik.............the fight with sven ottka never happened they blamed ottka...........he twice palled out the fight with glen johnson siteing injury when johnson said he wants money upfront to set a 3rd date for the fight joe pulled out alltogether WHY did he know he'd get injured again before hand............but again they blamed johnson............ the fights with reid and woodhall happened only after they had both been knocked out or beaten by and old man and where somewhat passed there primes............. you look and you'll see that 95% of his fights have been where theres an angle that has tiped things largely in calzages favour.............also lets not forget he held the wbo belt for 11 years a belt which even now at its higest ever holding is the number 4 belt before it was nothing more then a belt to hold your jeans up with
i used to be a fan of joes but there came a point where i had enough of his bull.......... lets face it he was only seen as a world champion in britan, no one knew who he was anywhere else..................sven ottka was a decent fighter nothing more but he was known as WORLD CHAMPION because he held the wba and ibf belts...... robin reid, charles brewer, glen johnson, bryon michell all had the balls the go fight him but joe refused to giveing us his famous.HE'S NOT IN MY LEAGUE, THERES NO INTEREST IN FIGHTING HIM so insted he fights guys whos name we cant even remember.......... a chance to win the wba, ibf belts and he says no thanks i'll fight this other guy.... for less money whi no one knows
he's a coward alwys was always will be............ even now he only takes fights with men he sees as past there best
Re: Joe Calzaghe under the micoscope
If he losses this one, dont worry too much, Mundine is bound to call him out.
Re: Joe Calzaghe under the micoscope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
the truth is if people are debateing calzaghes record he only has himself to blame and no one else.............. ricky hatton made more money from one fight then joe had made in his whole carreer which says it all............ joe alwys took the easier fights........... the fight with hopkins was said to be made years earlier but failded........ they blames hopkins.......... the fight with roy jones was said to be made years earlier but failed.........they blamed roy jones.........pavlik was said to be offered the fight but it failed............they blamed pavlik.............the fight with sven ottka never happened they blamed ottka...........he twice palled out the fight with glen johnson siteing injury when johnson said he wants money upfront to set a 3rd date for the fight joe pulled out alltogether WHY did he know he'd get injured again before hand............but again they blamed johnson............ the fights with reid and woodhall happened only after they had both been knocked out or beaten by and old man and where somewhat passed there primes............. you look and you'll see that 95% of his fights have been where theres an angle that has tiped things largely in calzages favour.............also lets not forget he held the wbo belt for 11 years a belt which even now at its higest ever holding is the number 4 belt before it was nothing more then a belt to hold your jeans up with
i used to be a fan of joes but there came a point where i had enough of his bull.......... lets face it he was only seen as a world champion in britan, no one knew who he was anywhere else..................sven ottka was a decent fighter nothing more but he was known as WORLD CHAMPION because he held the wba and ibf belts...... robin reid, charles brewer, glen johnson, bryon michell all had the balls the go fight him but joe refused to giveing us his famous.HE'S NOT IN MY LEAGUE, THERES NO INTEREST IN FIGHTING HIM so insted he fights guys whos name we cant even remember.......... a chance to win the wba, ibf belts and he says no thanks i'll fight this other guy.... for less money whi no one knows
he's a coward alwys was always will be............ even now he only takes fights with men he sees as past there best
:appl:;D
Re: Joe Calzaghe under the micoscope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
the truth is if people are debateing calzaghes record he only has himself to blame and no one else.............. ricky hatton made more money from one fight then joe had made in his whole carreer which says it all............ joe alwys took the easier fights........... the fight with hopkins was said to be made years earlier but failded........ they blames hopkins.......... the fight with roy jones was said to be made years earlier but failed.........they blamed roy jones.........pavlik was said to be offered the fight but it failed............they blamed pavlik.............the fight with sven ottka never happened they blamed ottka...........he twice palled out the fight with glen johnson siteing injury when johnson said he wants money upfront to set a 3rd date for the fight joe pulled out alltogether WHY did he know he'd get injured again before hand............but again they blamed johnson............ the fights with reid and woodhall happened only after they had both been knocked out or beaten by and old man and where somewhat passed there primes............. you look and you'll see that 95% of his fights have been where theres an angle that has tiped things largely in calzages favour.............also lets not forget he held the wbo belt for 11 years a belt which even now at its higest ever holding is the number 4 belt before it was nothing more then a belt to hold your jeans up with
i used to be a fan of joes but there came a point where i had enough of his bull.......... lets face it he was only seen as a world champion in britan, no one knew who he was anywhere else..................sven ottka was a decent fighter nothing more but he was known as WORLD CHAMPION because he held the wba and ibf belts...... robin reid, charles brewer, glen johnson, bryon michell all had the balls the go fight him but joe refused to giveing us his famous.HE'S NOT IN MY LEAGUE, THERES NO INTEREST IN FIGHTING HIM so insted he fights guys whos name we cant even remember.......... a chance to win the wba, ibf belts and he says no thanks i'll fight this other guy.... for less money whi no one knows
he's a coward alwys was always will be............ even now he only takes fights with men he sees as past there best
:bowdown:
Where is Joe from 1998-2006?
